Without... would there ever have been a...?

[simbob4000]

Without John Carter of Mars, there would have been no Star Wars (Lucas reportedly started working on an alternative when he couldn't acquire Flash Gordon, Flash Gordon was created when Burroughs wouldn't license John Carter for the newspapers, who wanted a competitor to cash in on Buck Rogers' schtick).

Wouldn't that mean there wouldn't be a Star Wars without Buck Rogers? I mean, I get what you're saying, but if Flash Gordon was created because the syndicates couldn't get John Carter of Mars to compete with Buck Rogers, then they still make something to compete with Buck Rogers...which would be Flash Gordon.

[Ambaryerno]

Without the X-Files there wouldn't be any of the great serialized shows we have today. Before the X-Files all TV was largely made up of stand alone episodes so that viewers wouldn't need any backstory to enjoy the episode. The X-Files changed all that and showed that a semi serialized show could work.

Deep Space Nine beat X-Files to air by 9 months. And while the entire series wasn't serialized the way DS9 was, there were quite a few story arcs of Next Generation that built on episodes throughout the series run. Just off the top of my head: the Q Episodes are the basis of the entire series myth arc. The Klingon episodes are all closely tied together, as are many of Data's focus episodes (of which Measure of a Man was a lynch pin). The first season had the "aliens take over the Federation from within" conspiracy arc, not to mention the seeds for the Borg were laid as early as the Season 1 finale. Unification required knowledge of multiple previous episodes to understand who the villain was (alternate-present Tasha Yar's daughter when she was resurrected and sent back in time during Yesterday's Enterprise. Even knowing who YAR was required knowledge of the first season episodes, particularly her death in Skin of Evil).

And someone needs to say it:

No X-Men, no MCU.

[simbob4000]

Deep Space Nine beat X-Files to air by 9 months. And while the entire series wasn't serialized the way DS9 was, there were quite a few story arcs of Next Generation that built on episodes throughout the series run. Just off the top of my head: the Q Episodes are the basis of the entire series myth arc. The Klingon episodes are all closely tied together, as are many of Data's focus episodes (of which Measure of a Man was a lynch pin). The first season had the "aliens take over the Federation from within" conspiracy arc, not to mention the seeds for the Borg were laid as early as the Season 1 finale. Unification required knowledge of multiple previous episodes to understand who the villain was (alternate-present Tasha Yar's daughter when she was resurrected and sent back in time during Yesterday's Enterprise. Even knowing who YAR was required knowledge of the first season episodes, particularly her death in Skin of Evil).

And someone needs to say it:

No X-Men, no MCU.

Well, like I said before, serialized was big in the '80s, and was part of soap operas even before that. Serialized tv was something being done on bigger shows than Deep Space Nine years before Deep Space Nine was a thing.

Forget no MCU. No X-Men and probably no Marvel. Marvel probably doesn't make it through the bankruptcy without them. Maybe that even happens sooner given how long the X-Men titles were their biggest sellers, and how the toy lines and video games were mostly all X-Men too.

[JediMindTrick]

No X-Men, no MCU.

No X-men and Chris Claremont there probably aren't any Marvel comics today. The X-men pretty much carried Marvel during the 80's and 90's at a time when everything non X-related was struggling. Even with them the company went bankrupt and only survived by selling off the movie rights to the X-men and Spiderman.

[JediMindTrick]

Well, like I said before, serialized was big in the '80s, and was part of soap operas even before that. Serialized tv was something being done on bigger shows than Deep Space Nine years before Deep Space Nine was a thing.

Such as what? DS9 didn't get semi serialized til later in the serie but the first season, which I watched last year on Netflix, was definitely all stand alone episodes. You could literally watch any single episode and fully follow it without knowing a single thing that had happened in any other episode that season. Thats the antithesis of serialization.

Most articles and such give the credit for the serialization era we are in now to the X-Files and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[simbob4000]

Such as what? DS9 didn't get semi serialized til later in the serie but the first season, which I watched last year on Netflix, was definitely all stand alone episodes. You could literally watch any single episode and fully follow it without knowing a single thing that had happened in any other episode that season. Thats the antithesis of serialization.

Most articles and such give the credit for the serialization era we are in now to the X-Files and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I already said some it the other post on the same thing in this very thread.

If most articles give credit to those two show, then most articles are wrong. I can only guess that such article are on fan centric sites being written by someone who thinks Buffy the Vampire Slayer is the great show to ever be on tv. Even in the '90s Twin Peaks was doing serialized stories before them.

[Professor Moriarty]

Without the comedian Lenny Bruce there wouldn't have been comedians like George Carlin, Joan Rivers & Richard Pryor.

[Ambaryerno]

Well, like I said before, serialized was big in the '80s, and was part of soap operas even before that. Serialized tv was something being done on bigger shows than Deep Space Nine years before Deep Space Nine was a thing.

Forget no MCU. No X-Men and probably no Marvel. Marvel probably doesn't make it through the bankruptcy without them. Maybe that even happens sooner given how long the X-Men titles were their biggest sellers, and how the toy lines and video games were mostly all X-Men too.

I was focusing primarily on the films in this case.

[simbob4000]

I was focusing primarily on the films in this case.

You just meant: No X-Men film, no Marvel movies?

That, I don't know about. Spider-Man was in development before X-Men came out. You're still getting that movie even if the X-Men movie doesn't happen in 2000. And Spider-Man was a way bigger hit than the X-Men movie was. Fox had been developing X-Men movies for years before they actually made one, if Spider-Man hit before X-Men, and it was just as big of a hit, Fox probably does X-Men later with a bigger budget. Maybe we get the crazy awesomeness that was Andrew Kevin Walker's '94 script.

Blade had already happened too.

[DrNewGod]

Wouldn't that mean there wouldn't be a Star Wars without Buck Rogers? I mean, I get what you're saying, but if Flash Gordon was created because the syndicates couldn't get John Carter of Mars to compete with Buck Rogers, then they still make something to compete with Buck Rogers...which would be Flash Gordon.

Fair riposte. I could argue that Buck Rogers is also a John Carter derivative (adventurous modern Euro-American thrown into a Sci-Fantasy environment), but the lines are not nearly as clear as they were Flash Gordon.

[DrNewGod]

Without Ron Pereleman, there never would have been an MCU.

[DrNewGod]

Without Superman, there never would have been a (hero formerly known as) Captain Marvel.

...further, because Goodman got a mad-on for locking up all things Marvel...

Without Superman, there never would have been a Captain (Danvers) Marvel movie under development.

...however, given the "ours is better" super-powers arms-race that ensued...

Without Captain Marvel, Superman might never have learned to fly.

[Ambaryerno]

You just meant: No X-Men film, no Marvel movies?

That, I don't know about. Spider-Man was in development before X-Men came out. You're still getting that movie even if the X-Men movie doesn't happen in 2000. And Spider-Man was a way bigger hit than the X-Men movie was. Fox had been developing X-Men movies for years before they actually made one, if Spider-Man hit before X-Men, and it was just as big of a hit, Fox probably does X-Men later with a bigger budget. Maybe we get the crazy awesomeness that was Andrew Kevin Walker's '94 script.

Blade had already happened too.

Blade is irrelevant to the modern superhero boom. There. I said it. Most people at the time didn't even realize it WAS a superhero/comic book movie. It certainly wasn't marketed that way, and it owed a LOT more to the beginnings of the vampire craze kicked off by Interview with a Vampire. I'd also recheck Spider-Man's development cycle, as you didn't even have Raimi brought on board until 2000 (the year X-Men was released). Had X-Men failed it's entirely plausible Sony might have completely reexamined the direction of the project, if not shelved it. It's impossible to say that Spider-Man would have been as big of a hit as it was if X-Men had failed, because THAT film was the gamble, and the one that had to prove that a comic book movie could still work (thus in part why they made the conscious effort to tone down the more outlandish aspects after Schumaker ran wild with them, and killed the genre the first time). Had X-Men bombed it may have taken a big part of Spidey's audience with it.

[TooFlyToFail]

You just meant: No X-Men film, no Marvel movies?

That, I don't know about. Spider-Man was in development before X-Men came out. You're still getting that movie even if the X-Men movie doesn't happen in 2000. And Spider-Man was a way bigger hit than the X-Men movie was. Fox had been developing X-Men movies for years before they actually made one, if Spider-Man hit before X-Men, and it was just as big of a hit, Fox probably does X-Men later with a bigger budget. Maybe we get the crazy awesomeness that was Andrew Kevin Walker's '94 script.

Blade had already happened too.

If X1 fails, they stop that development, real quick like. That would be another major failure after B&R, and Marvel would be potentially killing themselves financially if that movie failed.

Also, no FoX-Men Magneto = no Loki, aka the only good MCU villain. Feige has come out and said that Singer's Magneto is his favorite CBM villain/antagonist, and that's who they tried to emulate with Loki.

[Username taken]

If X1 fails, they stop that development, real quick like. That would be another major failure after B&R, and Marvel would be potentially killing themselves financially if that movie failed.

Also, no FoX-Men Magneto = no Loki, aka the only good MCU villain. Feige has come out and said that Singer's Magneto is his favorite CBM villain/antagonist, and that's who they tried to emulate with Loki.

There was a massive four way studio battle for Spider-man.

He was that valuable a commodity because he was the only one of the big three heroes without a movie.

Nothing would have stopped the production of Spider-man at that point.