SUPERMAN/WONDER WOMAN #29 Discussion

[adrikito]

On a sidenote, SuperCrab had that crazy wrestler heel-turn story suggestion of what SuperDad may end up with. LOL
Maybe SuperDad takes the outta-nowhere place of Cyborg Superman? Unlikely, of course.

I do not care the future of super dad but.. You want to repeat the case of Kara Zor-el, in new52? His father as Cyborg Superman..

But even with 52 new superman live .. I not surprise me superdad somehow put fault to the return of the superman of this universe... Or even his son, in the kind of comment that makes a child

[adrikito]

I think that's the one thing that could save this entire set of issues and takeover of the comics, if they were dropping subtle clues and stuff in an effort to turn everyone on SuperDad, because he's going to be a villain eventually, but still having him be mostly the good guy and there being semi-reasonable excuses for everything, because you still want people to buy the Rebirth stuff and then be shocked when he turns on the good guys, but that seeds were planted and you kind of wanted to "boo" him by the point he really turns bad, and aren't offended.

I will go on record. If SuperDad turns into a bad guy, I will start buying the books again (Otherwise next week is my final issue as a subscriber, though I don't rule out buying an occasional issue if I have an itch or there's a good sale). Um, as long as SuperJon isn't then the new Superman or something- that's like the one way they could ruin that.

Imagine, though, SuperDad's just subtlety acting like a Superdick but still a good guy (Beating villains, technically doing the right thing overall) and people are defending him, but Batman never buys it and thinks he's not to be trusted no matter what good he seems to do. The Internet goes nuts and splits between people defending SuperDad and people defending Batman. Key battle, Batman is about to beat, let's say, a Kryptonian villain like Zod or H'el, but then Zod or H'el turns the table and is beating down Batman.

In flies SuperDad (Maybe this is taking place on top of a building or on a mountain or something- or in an office building on a high floor). SuperDad's in full gear, he's looking iconic, the sun is shining on the "S", his chest is puffed up, "This is a job for Superman (written in full stylistic font)" in a full page spread, floating above the ground with both competitors backing away. He turns toward the villian first and looks like he's going to attack, the villain flinches, then SuperDad turns and looks at Batman. Batman reaches for something on his belt. Full page spread again- Superman comes up and does his trademark Superman Punch uppercut to Batman. Batman goes down.

Zod or H'el approaches SuperDad with a wide smile "I knew you were on my side, brother.". Superdad pauses for a second, with an indecisive look, as if maybe that punch to Batman was just because Batman was going for something on his belt, but then smiles and says: "We Kryptonians need to stick together". They're laughing and smiling and clapping each other on the back. Zod: "Earth won't know what hit it". We see Batman lying crushed again, knocked out. From a distant vantage point, unseen to the adults, is Jon in his SuperBoy costume, crying, and then flying away. SuperDad, who doesn't see this: "Watch out world, THE REIGN OF SUPERMAN HAS BEGUN (New story arc)".

Then the next half dozen issues are dark covers, literally dark, like Superman in shadows doing various things, battling various people, with a sinister overtone to the artwork itself. We learn that he's not really from the Pre-Flashpoint main DCU, but actually a different alternate universe (But he is still the Superman of that different universe and a good guy there, just not as good as our Supermen have been, more a dick, so this is still a change for him, just less of one- also, that explanation saves us from having to hurt the legacy of the old post-Crisis Superman). He takes out every member of the Justice League one by one (Not killing them, but taking them out of the fight somehow). His own son eventually has enough and tries to stop him and Superman tosses him into the Phantom Zone and calls it a "time out for bad behavior".

Luthor is the last man standing to defend against Superman, and with Superman evil, Luthor of course must be good. He comes the closest to winning, but Superman wins, and for once we are sad that Luthor's plan was foiled. And Luthor just shakes his head sadly and says "I knew it. I knew it from the moment I first saw him.".

Superman and Zod rule the world. The governments surrender to them after they take out the world's militaries.

The media would go nuts with this. Superman is evil. He taking out Batman, Wonder Woman, etc.. He's turned on America. Maybe at the end of one issue, he burns an American flag and laughs. "Lies, Domination, and the Kryptonian Way" headlines the Daily Planet with a Lois Lane byline.

Eventually, new52 Superman comes back and kicks SuperDad's ass and sets everything right. He's the world's hero. He restores the flag and waves it in the air. He restores everyone's trust. He frees Jon from the Phantom Zone and finds him a nice couple in in Smallville who always wanted children, but never had them, who knew his parents, and he and Jon agree that Jon will use his powers when he comes of age, when he's ready, but for now his job is just to be a kid.

Some people would be very pissed, but these issues would fly off the shelves and gather big time media attention.

Then you return a good guy new52 Superman and make him very cool, modern, and edgy, with a 17+ rating and Wonder Woman at his side. A bit more sex and violence than usual, and he drinks more ("I was dead for too long, now it's time to live"), but still the old Superman spirit and mythos. And you've got this huge audience to introduce him to. High collar and Kryptonian armor is back, as are red boots.

He and Batman and Jimmy, who's in on his secret identity, hang out and drink regularly. He's Clark by day again, but this Clark is cool. If he stops dating Wonder Woman he either hits on Lois suavely and gets turned down with a smile from a secretly loving it Lois, or Lois hits on him and he smiles and says "Don't you wish." but secretly admits to Bruce and Jim that when he's ready to settle down, he thinks it'll be her. Or, if the Wonder Woman thing goes well, he marries her. Maybe Lois marries Jonathan or something- or Bruce Wayne (Imagine *that* pairing).

Sniff, sniff... LEXXXXY... Why did you have to die? Superman hate you.. is more easy than batman and ww still alive.

We saw the end of Convergence universes were restored .. .. the superman pre-flashpoint remains in his universe.. these characters come from an alternative future of pre-flashpoint..

This seems Injustice the game... although the superman of this world is the good. While the superman of this universe back, I doubt that I mind too that happen.

[A Guy's Name]

I do not care the future of super dad but.. You want to repeat the case of Kara Zor-el, in new52? His father as Cyborg Superman..

But even with 52 new superman live .. I not surprise me superdad somehow put fault to the return of the superman of this universe... Or even his son, in the kind of comment that makes a child

Not as a cyborg/robotic Superman. The suggestion was he'll be evil or just merely bad in some way.
Not that I condone it. Just a tossing up a thought of what may be coming. Not that it's likely.
When Reign Of The Supers initiates post-Rebirth, nobody knows exactly who'll be who. Possible players are SuperDad, SuperWoman, SuperJon, Super-Man, Cyborg Zor-El, SuperGirl (maybe), Steel, Eradicator and SuperLex.

[adrikito]

Not as a cyborg/robotic Superman. The suggestion was he'll be evil or just merely bad in some way.
Not that I condone it. Just a tossing up a thought of what may be coming. Not that it's likely.
When Reign Of The Supers initiates post-Rebirth, nobody knows exactly who'll be who. Possible players are SuperDad, SuperWoman, SuperJon, Super-Man, Cyborg Zor-El, SuperGirl (maybe), Steel, Eradicator and SuperLex.

I doubt that this time the cyborg superman come here to make heroe.. the erradicator is here the evil from the start. Superlex is the most aspires to be the bad guy here.. in the Darkseid War said this:

"First I kill the Antimonitor. Then Superman."

as we all know, he is evil as villain or hero.

Here want to return almost to the past(if superwoman continue after rebirth, for example) in every way .. Hordr Root would have been the perfect replacement to Lex Luthor and he is dead, although I still appreciate Luthor as villain, I liked his armor in JL vs TT...

No doubt that superdad even finish as good here.. although not all think the same for supplant superman in rebirth.... and in the last 2 chapters he appear a lot needlessly and stressed the importance of this saga, Now this moves more slowly and is just one chapter.
As Diana and trevor in darkseid war, a waste of time.. what happen withe lena luthor, cold and where is aquaman? NOTHING and 2 chapters lost for trevor..

[MarvelMaster616]

Was pretty disappointed with this issue. The whole Last Days of Superman arc just feels so rushed and forced at this point. DC clearly wants to have their cake and eat it too, accommodating fans of the post-Crisis Superman without completely rebooting or retconning the actions of New 52 Superman. And I think they're doing it for all the wrong reasons in all the wrong ways. They're basically setting it up so SuperDad just steps right in, picks up where his precedessor left off, and everything keeps moving along while New 52 Superman "dies" for a while. Given all the ways Superman has been killed off lately, it's getting too routine.

On top of that, I think it's a poor way to end a series that had been built around so many great Superman/Wonder Woman moments. There's really no effort to put a capstone on this series, which is a real shame. It lasted longer and did better than most other post-Flashpoint books that DC launched. It was one of the few balanced romances between two fully developed characters. Now, it's just basically being cast aside. I find that very unsatisfying in the grand scheme of things. Not holding out much hope for Rebirth.

[manofsteel1979]

I highly suspect the chapters of this story weren't written with specific issues in mind, only with the stipulation it starts in SUPERMAN #51 and ends in #52, particularly the second half which the usual series publishing order was shifted so the story ends in Sup #52.

Oh and Supercrab really needs to start reading Invincible for his evil paternal Superman fix. The Superdad heel turn ain't happening. Besides it's a much better book than nearly anything Superman related published over the last decade.

[DieHard200904]

SuperCrab needs to read Invincible

Definitely. With Superman like character and a nice tone, that's a good book for people feeling down on the line about Superman

[DieHard200904]

I put part of the above quote in bold, because that's spot on. I think it must be quoting from a Superman movie or something, because I feel like I've heard that before a few times. The Superman I grew up with doesn't just have a chat with his family when the heroes are on their heels against a powerful new villain. And it's not like he doesn't resemble the Superman of popular myth because he's an edgy modern of the character, they are actually trying to do an "old timey" Superman with SuperDad and they are totally missing the plot on what defines that character. New52 Superman fighting through an illness he's dying from to defend the earth is actually acting much more like the Superman I know- and he's the edgy modern guy (Or as close as they've gotten to an edgy modern Superman, anyway).

Heck, if Jon's supposed to be a superhero now (Which I strongly object to as a plot element, but if they're going in that direction), shouldn't *he* want to stay behind and fight? Struggle against SuperDad, etc.? Sounds like they've become a family of Super Cowards.



So, you're telling me this isn't an eight issue arc, it's a 3 issue arc. So, how about instead of adding "padding" that screws with characterizations and plot, why couldn't we have had an issue where, I don't know, somebody looks for a cure for the fatal disease Superman is dying from? Or an issue where Superman and Wonder Woman have a lot of sex and get married because he's dying and they need to speed it up (A Superman/Wonder Woman wedding issue would sell big, and since you're killing off the character, it wouldn't have any long term effect on the line)? Or Clark having a final get together with his friends from the Daily Planet over drinks and then having to defend them from some one-issue threat? Or the two Supermen talk over their lives with each other and their similarities and differences and compare notes with flashbacks, and fly off together, both in full costume (SuperDad in his old costume, with new52 playfully making fun of the trunks and SuperDad saying if he ever went back to wearing this full time, he might have to ditch that element of the costume), up up and away? Then pack the major events that you're saying they are stretching out of 2-3 issues each that should be one issue, and actually make them one issue each.

See, I could edit or write this line better than it's being edited or written. Maybe not, but it'd be hard to do worse.

Dragon Ball Z, Invincible, or a DC Animated movie sounds good for you right now. They are more entertaining to me now anyways.