What Do You Think Of What Was To Be Venom's Initially Planned Origin?

[Agent Z]

Venom is a fairly divisive character amongst the Spider-Man fandom. Some think he's a genuinely frightening menace with a very striking appearance, while others see him as a shallow, pathetic excuse for a villain. One common criticism is that his reasons for hating Spider-Man (that Spider-Man exposed his shody journalism) was utterly nonsensical and made it impossible to take Eddy seriously or even sympathise with him. But believe it or not, this was not supposed to be Venom's origin. In fact, Venom was not initially a 'he'.



From The article "Dark Side of The Spider":

"... Venom was originally supposed to be a pregnant woman whose husband was killed in an automobile accident because the driver was distracted by Spider-Man. To add to the misery, the husband was flattened right in front of her. The shock forced her into labor, and she lost her baby, and her mind, in the process. The symbiote would find her in her grief and bond with her and the two would seek revenge against Spider-Man. While a misguided motivation, at least it wasn't because her misery was caused by her own actions as Brock's was. She was a true victim and hadn't done anything wrong except being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And since Spider-Man has historically had very few female villains of any lasting merit, this could have been a definite change from the ordinary.

But Spider-Editor Jim Salicrup did not believe that the audience would accept a woman as a viable physical threat to Spider-Man, even one enhanced by an alien symbiote."
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/DarkS...theSpider.html



So what do you think? Would this character have been better in the long run than what we got instead?

[ngroove]

Might limit the volume of usage, which may lead to lasting greatness of becoming one of Spidey's greatest foes. If that was to be, are we supposed to feel "sorry" for her, from the still controversial subject of forced miscarriage, and that she is a woman, whom as a physical threat, means that Spidey may bash her in quite a bit?

What we got in Venom instead, he's great, not just because he's a bigger, scarier, mirror image of Spidey, but it's just simply FUN to watch em' go at it, even if, according to Eddie's eyes, they are battles to the deaths. Sure, he mindlessly uses "REVENGE!" with or without meaning for another annual go at it, but when people digs it as an excuse for another Spider-Man / Venom throwdown, then it's an excuse for a Spider-Man / Venom throwdown.

Besides, most "Physical Female Threats", Marvel believes, has to be more man-ish, more masculine, less feminine, to have the muscles - see Man-Killer and Anaconda, and most of the Grapplers. Titania, maybe "less feminine" in feminine manners.

[Metamorphosis]

I get tired of the criticism that Venom's motivations were nonsensical. He was crazy! Brock was suicidal, and he bonded with a rejected otherworldly lifeform that hyped up his mental illness. He wasn't going to be rational, and his unpredictable side added to the tension in the stories.

I really like the early appearances of Venom, he's still the last great new Spider-man villain. I wouldn't mind seeing the "woman losing her family and going crazy on Spider-man" angle being adapted for another new villain.

[Mister Mets]

I don't think it would be a good idea to make a stillbirth part of the origin of a new Spider-Man villain.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

I don't think it would have worked. I think Eddie worked just fine as Venom. I get that story sounding better for some, but that doesn't mean that it would have led to the same iconic imagery that we got with Venom.

[Kevinroc]

I think it could have been interesting. It's hard to really tell "what could have been," given that Venom's actual popularity changed how he was handled greatly.

Would they still have gone with the idea of Venom having different hosts at the time?

(But I do think that "a woman posing a threat to Spidey" as a reason to reject it is pretty sexist.)

[Aruran.]

It would've been interesting having one of Spider-Man's top 3 villains as a female.
With Venom, the symbiote seemed more interesting earlier on than the host, I think what Bendis did in Ultimate Spider-Man really helped Eddie Brock for the long haul.

(But I do think that "a woman posing a threat to Spidey" as a reason to reject it is pretty sexist.)

I swear when people say the marriage led to bad ideas, they have no idea how everything was a bad idea.

[Kevinroc]

I swear when people say the marriage led to bad ideas, they have no idea how everything was a bad idea.

Eddie Brock literally did not exist until they decided he was Venom. It's a pretty half-assed creation with a terrible retcon. (Also, Eddie blamed Spidey for his being a terrible reporter.)

But because Venom became so shockingly popular, a lot of people overlook the story telling problems of his origin.

[RobertMacQuarrie1]

Eddie Brock literally did not exist until they decided he was Venom. It's a pretty half-assed creation with a terrible retcon. (Also, Eddie blamed Spidey for his being a terrible reporter.)

But because Venom became so shockingly popular, a lot of people overlook the story telling problems of his origin.

I don't think there is really any problems with his origin. I just feel the issue has to do with the setup.

But, then again, how many of Spider-Man's other villains have had a personal connection to him? I mean, Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Vulture, Shocker, Hydro-Man, Kraven, and even the Green Goblin, all had no personal connection to Spidey or any history before they showed up. I don't see why Venom needs to be a special case or why Eddie Brock needed to be established in the supporting cast before he went after Spider-Man.

[Kevinroc]

I don't think there is really any problems with his origin. I just feel the issue has to do with the setup.

But, then again, how many of Spider-Man's other villains have had a personal connection to him? I mean, Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Vulture, Shocker, Hydro-Man, Kraven, and even the Green Goblin, all had no personal connection to Spidey or any history before they showed up. I don't see why Venom needs to be a special case or why Eddie Brock needed to be established in the supporting cast before he went after Spider-Man.

Because Peter knew who he was when his identity was revealed. If that hadn't been a thing, it would have done a lot more for Eddie Brock as a character. Notice that every adaptation since that has Venom has Eddie appearing before he becomes Venom. (The Ultimate cartoon being an exception because Eddie isn't Venom there. But we did meet Harry before he became Venom.)

[Darthfury78]

Now imagine if Marvel had used Man-Killer as Venom?

[exile001]

"... Venom was originally supposed to be a pregnant woman whose husband was killed in an automobile accident because the driver was distracted by Spider-Man. To add to the misery, the husband was flattened right in front of her. The shock forced her into labor, and she lost her baby, and her mind, in the process.

To be honest, this is just way too much. The reason I like the early Venom issues is because he is just so fun. I can't really see a character with this origin being a lot of fun to read.

A woman can be a super-villain without having to lose a child/husband. I just think this set up is too depressing.

On the 'What if(?) Venom were a woman' question, I'd be fine with it. There's no reason she couldn't have exactly the same origin as Brock and be a credible threat. It was the Symbiote that made Brock a real threat, not the man.

[David Walton]

(But I do think that "a woman posing a threat to Spidey" as a reason to reject it is pretty sexist.)

I'd take that explanation with a grain of salt, seeing as how women had already been posing a threat to Marvel heroes for years. It seems more likely that the idea of Spidey beating on a woman who watched her husband die and lost her baby might be a bit much for a superhero comic aimed at kids. Or it could be that Sarlicup didn't think the ten year old boys the comic was primarily written for would respond to Venom as a woman, and he's probably right. There's nothing inherently wrong with knowing your audience's preferences.

At any rate, I like the idea of Venom as a villain who's the opposite of Spidey because he won't take responsiblity for anything that's happened in his life.

[Metamorphosis]

I'd take that explanation with a grain of salt, seeing as how women had already been posing a threat to Marvel heroes for years. It seems more likely that the idea of Spidey beating on a woman who watched her husband die and lost her baby might be a bit much for a superhero comic aimed at kids. Or it could be that Sarlicup didn't think the ten year old boys the comic was primarily written for would respond to Venom as a woman, and he's probably right. There's nothing inherently wrong with knowing your audience's preferences.

As somebody who was in that target age group when Venom first appeared, I'm almost sure that Michelinie / McFarlane could've made the female version of Venom work. Because the symbiote was such a strong, creepy visual, and McFarlane's art was fantastic.

As it is, I'm glad we got Eddie Brock, with his character flaws and all.

[Darthfury78]

As somebody who was in that target age group when Venom first appeared, I'm almost sure that Michelinie / McFarlane could've made the female version of Venom work. Because the symbiote was such a strong, creepy visual, and McFarlane's art was fantastic.

As it is, I'm glad we got Eddie Brock, with his character flaws and all.

What might have been very good to see was for the symbiote to move on from Eddie after ASM #317 unto Cain Marko(The Juggernaut) or Mystique(A perfect combination). I like the symbiote going from person to person.