Weakest animal to solo a peak human

[Powerboy]

Well, Doom killed a lion with his bare hands and he's not peak human. So, maybe one of the larger species of bear?

But the OP designated real life peak human. Doom is well beyond real life peak human if he can kill a lion with a strike like that.

Lots of animals could kill a real life peak human depending on who gets luckier or other criteria. Is the real life peak human trained to fight certain animals? Does he know how to defend against a trained attack dog?

[Sharpandpointies]

Nobody actually trains against attack dogs, at least not anywhere approaching realistically. If an attack dog is actually trying to kill someone (most are trained not to do so), the defences include 'get into a sealed area where the dog cannot reach you', or 'get a weapon'. Unarmed, you're basically going to get torn up.

I've heard a lot of BS in 'you versus animal X' about 'I would put my finger in its eye', which ignores the fact that sticking one finger into a tiny, violently moving target while the dog is busy tearing up everything close to its face with actual natural weaponry (teeth, strong biting force), when the eye-poking human is also suffering potential injury, shock, etc, is going to be a wee bit more difficult than the dog's job, which is the aforementioned 'tear up everything close to its face with actual natural weaponry'.

Teeth might not be razor blades (and aren't), but they'll a hell of a lot better than anything WE have.

I suspect real life peak human could beat an attack dog. Not saying they would every time, but if you get someone who is 6'6", 260 lbs, fast, enduring, etc (or however we want to qualify/quantify this mythical real world peak human), they have a chance at getting their hands on something vulnerable and breaking it, then finishing the poor animal off. But without a weapon, ugh. It's going to be bloody on both sides. Anything bigger than that, and I'm not liking their odds (yes, real world humans have killed lions with their bare hands, but this is the massive, massive exception to 'the lion gets an easy dinner').

Anyway, the OP also mentioned Comic Book Peak Humans, and I suspect we'd need to go somewhat higher than an attack dog or even a lion, as CBPH had beaten the snot out of gorillas and taken out polar bears, and have feats to show for it.

We're getting into 'Rhinoceros' territory, as whatever it is would need to be big and tough enough to actually weather the blitz (and yes, it would be a blitz).

Mileage, of course, may vary.

[Powerboy]

Nobody actually trains against attack dogs, at least not anywhere approaching realistically. If an attack dog is actually trying to kill someone (most are trained not to do so), the defences include 'get into a sealed area where the dog cannot reach you', or 'get a weapon'. Unarmed, you're basically going to get torn up.

I've heard a lot of BS in 'you versus animal X' about 'I would put my finger in its eye', which ignores the fact that sticking one finger into a tiny, violently moving target while the dog is busy tearing up everything close to its face with actual natural weaponry (teeth, strong biting force), when the eye-poking human is also suffering potential injury, shock, etc, is going to be a wee bit more difficult than the dog's job, which is the aforementioned 'tear up everything close to its face with actual natural weaponry'.

Teeth might not be razor blades (and aren't), but they'll a hell of a lot better than anything WE have.

I suspect real life peak human could beat an attack dog. Not saying they would every time, but if you get someone who is 6'6", 260 lbs, fast, enduring, etc (or however we want to qualify/quantify this mythical real world peak human), they have a chance at getting their hands on something vulnerable and breaking it, then finishing the poor animal off. But without a weapon, ugh. It's going to be bloody on both sides. Anything bigger than that, and I'm not liking their odds (yes, real world humans have killed lions with their bare hands, but this is the massive, massive exception to 'the lion gets an easy dinner').

Anyway, the OP also mentioned Comic Book Peak Humans, and I suspect we'd need to go somewhat higher than an attack dog or even a lion, as CBPH had beaten the snot out of gorillas and taken out polar bears, and have feats to show for it.

We're getting into 'Rhinoceros' territory, as whatever it is would need to be big and tough enough to actually weather the blitz (and yes, it would be a blitz).

Mileage, of course, may vary.

Oh I know. It's right up there with people who explain how a certain joint lock that they've never been in couldn't really work as if pain was just a word or who think they'd be good at cage fighting because they've watched it all the time on television. Reality is a whole different thing.

[Anarchist]

Thank you Sharp.
I work at an animal shelter, and my colleagues once told me a story about a coal miner who used to take the dogs out for a walk. He was a massive, had a very muscular build and it still didn't help him when one day a kangal he was walking out attacked him. His left arm and hand got basically torn to shreds (he survived and recovered, luckily) and in the end 4 persons were necessary to keep the dog down in order for the vet to put him to sleep.
No unarmed human, no matter if he is strong, versed in martial arts or any other BS has a chance against an angry, large dog. Every person who tells you otherwise is a braggart who has never been in such a situation.

[Sharpandpointies]

*response to Powerboy*

Or weapon use. Etc.

If it was so easy everyone could do it, then...we wouldn't have sports. Or experts. Or training schools. Or 'needs years and years of the proper kind of practice before it can possibly be of functional use in an unrehearsed situation'. Etc.

Weird thing I've noted (and of which I've possibly also been guilty...no, certainly, as I've caught myself doing this in the last 10 years). New students in a martial art school almost always seem to have this weird, almost subconscious idea that somehow they'll prove to be a savant. That they're going to be the chosen one or whatever. Not necessarily due to ego, but perhaps there's stuff like Hollywood to blame, or the lack of serious criticism in today's society or maybe any number of other reasons.

It's the ones who get past the disappointment that work is involved who stay.

Sorry, just an aside.

[Sharpandpointies]

Thank you Sharp.
I work at an animal shelter, and my colleagues once told me a story about a coal miner who used to take the dogs out for a walk. He was a massive, had a very muscular build and it still didn't help him when one day a kangal he was walking out attacked him. His left arm and hand got basically torn to shreds (he survived and recovered, luckily) and in the end 4 persons were necessary to keep the dog down in order for the vet to put him to sleep.
No unarmed human, no matter if he is strong, versed in martial arts or any other BS has a chance against an angry, large dog. Every person who tells you otherwise is a braggart who has never been in such a situation.

Agreed. I mean, it's possible - occasionally people get REALLY lucky (and those are the stories we hear about) - but my money, every time, goes on the dog.

We're tool users. Weapon users. We're not designed nor effective at fighting without it. It's one of the reasons why we developed methods of fighting - to try to increase the efficiency of the crap natural weapons we have against others of our own kind.

Glad the coal miner recovered. And yes, as you work in the industry, I'm more than happy to take your assessment and examples as 'qualified opinion on the matter'. ^_^

[Photon Torme]

A kitty or a mouse could probably kill a peak human if they wew determined to

[Powerboy]

*response to Powerboy*

Or weapon use. Etc.

If it was so easy everyone could do it, then...we wouldn't have sports. Or experts. Or training schools. Or 'needs years and years of the proper kind of practice before it can possibly be of functional use in an unrehearsed situation'. Etc.

Weird thing I've noted (and of which I've possibly also been guilty...no, certainly, as I've caught myself doing this in the last 10 years). New students in a martial art school almost always seem to have this weird, almost subconscious idea that somehow they'll prove to be a savant. That they're going to be the chosen one or whatever. Not necessarily due to ego, but perhaps there's stuff like Hollywood to blame, or the lack of serious criticism in today's society or maybe any number of other reasons.

It's the ones who get past the disappointment that work is involved who stay.

Sorry, just an aside.

Yes I think a lot of it does come from fiction of various kinds.

A friend of mine told me that when he was around 12, his uncle let him ride his motorcycle. The guy didn't give him any real instructions other than how top shift the gears and "Release the clutch". So he revved the throttle to a very high level and released the clutch while his uncle, having plenty of time to see what would happen, just stood there. So the bike took off like a rocket and he fell and got scraped up and the bike got totaled.

My friend said that, at 12, he thought he would do fine because that's how it always happened in the movies. People try something they've never done before with no training and barely the most basic instruction and they are not only competent at it but great at it.

Regarding martial arts, I've seen the same thing. You show them something. They repeat it, thinking that what they did was really what the instructor did when it wasn't even close and missed all the nuances of what was involved. But they want to move on to the next thing and almost look like they don't get why you are making them go over it again and again since they obviously got it already.

Some of it is certainly ego in not wanting to think of yourself as not knowing stuff and accepting that, to be competent at it is going to need the dedication of years to it. But I do believe some of it is the world of fiction where people do stuff like land a passenger plane with nothing but someone verbally telling them what to do as if this were a matter of pushing the right buttons rather than months and years of learning the hand-on feel of every little nuance or where people are great at any sort of skill they have dedicated no training towards.

[Powerboy]

Agreed. I mean, it's possible - occasionally people get REALLY lucky (and those are the stories we hear about) - but my money, every time, goes on the dog.

We're tool users. Weapon users. We're not designed nor effective at fighting without it. It's one of the reasons why we developed methods of fighting - to try to increase the efficiency of the crap natural weapons we have against others of our own kind.

Glad the coal miner recovered. And yes, as you work in the industry, I'm more than happy to take your assessment and examples as 'qualified opinion on the matter'. ^_^

Yes. I know this is overly simplistic but, evolutionarily, one of the reasons we developed tool-making capacity is because we needed to. We didn't have the natural weapons to "cut it" (bad pun completely intended).

[Sharpandpointies]

Regarding martial arts, I've seen the same thing. You show them something. They repeat it, thinking that what they did was really what the instructor did when it wasn't even close and missed all the nuances of what was involved. But they want to move on to the next thing and almost look like they don't get why you are making them go over it again and again since they obviously got it already.

My current teacher had lost all patience by the time I started with him (about 10 years ago) and basically told me on the first minute of the first private class I had with him 'Okay, here are the rules. When we do something I want you to shut up and listen to me. Don't talk unless I ask you a question, or unless you have a question yourself. And don't argue with me. And don't talk about what you already know. If you're here to learn, learn. If you can't follow these instructions religiously, there's the door.'

He loosened up after a couple of years when he realized I was serious about things. But having experienced teaching (not even close to the amount he had at the time), I completely understand his point...and his frustration.

Some of it is certainly ego in not wanting to think of yourself as not knowing stuff and accepting that, to be competent at it is going to need the dedication of years to it. But I do believe some of it is the world of fiction where people do stuff like land a passenger plane with nothing but someone verbally telling them what to do as if this were a matter of pushing the right buttons rather than months and years of learning the hand-on feel of every little nuance or where people are great at any sort of skill they have dedicated no training towards.

I like the four levels to competence, which applies to...well, close to everything (outside of things like 'breathing').

Unconscious incompetence - where one is not aware one stinks and has zero skill.
Conscious incompetence - where one has trained enough to finally figured out one stinks and has zero skill.
Conscious competence - where one has skill, but needs to concentrate and think about everything as one is doing it.
Unconscious competence - where one has hardwired stuff in enough that one doesn't actually think about what one is doing, but just does it.

[Powerboy]

My current teacher had lost all patience by the time I started with him (about 10 years ago) and basically told me on the first minute of the first private class I had with him 'Okay, here are the rules. When we do something I want you to shut up and listen to me. Don't talk unless I ask you a question, or unless you have a question yourself. And don't argue with me. And don't talk about what you already know. If you're here to learn, learn. If you can't follow these instructions religiously, there's the door.'

He loosened up after a couple of years when he realized I was serious about things. But having experienced teaching (not even close to the amount he had at the time), I completely understand his point...and his frustration.



I like the four levels to competence, which applies to...well, close to everything (outside of things like 'breathing').

Unconscious incompetence - where one is not aware one stinks and has zero skill.
Conscious incompetence - where one has trained enough to finally figured out one stinks and has zero skill.
Conscious competence - where one has skill, but needs to concentrate and think about everything as one is doing it.
Unconscious competence - where one has hardwired stuff in enough that one doesn't actually think about what one is doing, but just does it.

If you don't mind, I'm going to use that in my signature for a while.

I already test drove it to make sure it would fit.

[Sharpandpointies]

Coolness. :) Feed my ego, it needs the chow.

...well, no, but it won't refuse a free meal. Few egos will.

Full disclosure - I didn't come up with that. Was in a training session to do with...task hazard analysis, I think. Lo, over a decade ago.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

There's also the fifth level of competence.

Unconscious conscious incompetent competence. It's where one has become aware that the hardwired things they've learned to do, aren't nearly as useful as they thought even though they're good at it. Like knowing all the lyrics to ABBA, or being able to say the alphabet backwards.

[Captain Morgan]

Kangels are also truly massive dogs. Like, bigger than your average wolf by a pretty fair margin. I think any decent sized canine is going to do some serious damage to a person, regardless of the outcome, because I guarantee it's going to tear up at least one of your limbs. However, I do think at there comes a point where a human should be able to take a canine. It's dependent on:

1) That person being able to fight through pain, because a bloodlusted pooch is going to draw some serious blood.
2) Knowing where to target on a dog. (Essentially having the proper training.)
3) The dog's mass not exceeding that person's strength by a certain margin.

I spent most of my life roughhousing with 80-90 pound dogs. And while we were almost never actually trying to hurt each other, it serves as a similar practice to sparring with a human partner. You learn what hurts the other species if only because you want to avoid doing that to them. I'm pretty confident that I could at least survive a dog attack from a 90 pound dog, albeit badly hurt. Go significantly higher on the size/strength/viciousness scale than your average pitbull and I'd be less certain.

A friend of mine recently had an Alaskan Malamute rescue . The thing went nuts and attacked a friend of his, tearing up the guys face. A witness relayed to me that my friend (a former college football player in excellent shape) threw the thing across the massive dog and took the wind out of its sails, but not before getting a pretty bad bite to the arm.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Some dog can take solid uncontested uppercut to the chin/face from a human with the hitting power slightly superior to Mike Tyson coming at faster speeds? Its brain isn't going to shake? This is more power than any living human can generate with a punch, much less a solid kick. That's not enough to make the dog stagger?

On the other hand, I'd figure a Comic Book Peak Human could beat ANY living animal. They're too fast, have pressure points, and many real life animals just lay down to die once their stamina is shot. Batman could just run around until it gets tired and then beat on it. Rinse and repeat until something breaks, or the animal dies of thirst/hunger. Edit: Hell, batman should be able to beat a Great White Shark in water...