It's leaked.

[Trey Strain]

As I've said before -- lose the timeline! It causes nothing but trouble!

[failo.legendkiller]

I'm very happy for the BIG return, but i'm confused with this 10 years thing.
Roy Harper had Lian?
What's Donna Troy origin? (Ok, that's not a news)
Why we have two Superman?
Where's Bart Allen?
Too many question to be answered, maybe it's better to wait until wednsday

[FlashEarthOne]

Ok, I'm confused. How does forgetting 10 years make Bruce younger? He was in his early 40s pre Nu52 but is 30 now, but characters like Tim got aged down about 2 years and Dick around 6ish.

The same could be said for the Justice League members. What now? Are they going to age them again? I like the current age separation of Bruce and Grayson. Same with the other JLA members and their "legacy" counterparts.

[manofsteel1979]

When DC brought back Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, people complained for years about how they did it. But really there was no good way to do it, because Ron Marz had done as he was ordered and tried to flush them in a way that they couldn't be retrieved from the septic tank.

The same thing applies here. This change was made with an assumption that it would be permanent. So there isn't any good way to undo it.

If you wanted it undone, don't complain about how they accomplish that. Just be glad that you got what you wanted.

Knowing what we know now, it actually makes perfect sense from a story reason as a whole.spoilers:

Manhattan

end of spoilers stole time. and in order to fill the blanks, time itself rewrote history and everyone's memories so that every one's histories made some sort of sense and everyone didn't go insane. Now that time is reasserting itself, the old memories are coming back and they will all likely remember their primary histories and events (with a few things conveniently no longer acknowledged, like Batman once having worn blue and Grey tights, Robin in bare legs and elf shoes and Superman once wearing red trunks, having a mullet and three contradictory origin stories in the span of 6 years) while also having memories of all the events and adventures since 2011. They once lived one life, they briefly lived another life, now they have full knowledge of both going forward. Does humanity as a whole remember or just our heroes? That's the 1000 dollar question.

The only unresolved thing is what's going on with Superman. Are both Supermen the native Superman of this timeline somehow split in two, with one retaining memories of his Pre-Flashpoint life, and the other just memories of the New 52 verse. Are they both imposters and the "true" Superman is out there in the either somewhere? Is it that New 52 Supes was a placeholder to account for Pre-fp Superman, who was missing at the dawn of the New 52? Is it a mix of all of that? That's what I'm wondering.

[Iopy]

It's not hard guys. The Nu52 universe was the pre52 universe the whole time. Our cosmic benifactor messed around with it and caused years to be lost and altered.

Year One happened. No Mans Land happened. All of it happened, but now it's all lost in the big time retcon.

Still means that Zero Year happened too, because of what Mr.B did.

The question is will things iron themselves out to where the NU52 past are retconned away, or will they just leave it with the characters knowing there were different past for each of them.

Supergirl and Superman arrived twice in two completely different ways because reasons, while Martha Kent is both alive and dead. The Walking Dead, Smallville Edition.

[GlennSimpson]

Supergirl and Superman arrived twice in two completely different ways because reasons, while Martha Kent is both alive and dead. The Walking Dead, Smallville Edition.

Again, I assume that the "dominant" history is the new52 history. The rest will just be memories of a "previous life" as it were.

[Nite-Wing]

The timeline will always be a problem
DC wants to not make their characters too old but to accommodate more and more legacy characters you are going to end up in situations where one generation is pushing late 40s and the next is pushing 30s
Wally is now all over the place age wise
He goes from family man who is an adult flash back to kid flash. Now he's basically younger than he should be whereas everyone else like Dick,Donna, Roy etc are all older than him.

Why is it so important to have all this history if none of the characters are going to make sense?

[scottsummer]

I...can't...fathom .....

My brain....is this good? terrible? ...the dawn of DC or the end??

I can't think right now..WTF IS GOING ON...



Maybe it was just Joker fucking with Batsy and us.

[GlennSimpson]

The timeline will always be a problem
DC wants to not make their characters too old but to accommodate more and more legacy characters you are going to end up in situations where one generation is pushing late 40s and the next is pushing 30s
Wally is now all over the place age wise
He goes from family man who is an adult flash back to kid flash. Now he's basically younger than he should be whereas everyone else like Dick,Donna, Roy etc are all older than him.

Why is it so important to have all this history if none of the characters are going to make sense?

I would take it a step further and ask why have all this history if that history isn't going to be a factor in the stories moving forward?

But there is apparently a set of readers who would rather read about a Superman who is *technically* a particular previous Superman, even if the current conditions he is living under are very different from they ones he was living in before.

Like you could have a story where the pre-Flashpoint Wally West comes along and is immediately transformed into a light-based superhero living on Rann and having adventures there, and people would read it because it's "their" Wally West.

[etamogrey]

Wally is back and I'm excited ,but to all my fellow Wally West fans let's remember that we can't complain. Does the timeline make sense now? Nope. Is he the right age and will he be with Linda and the kids? Nope. Will Nuwally still be Kid flash? Yup. Is he gonna share the Flash title with Barry? Probably not since Barry has a show and movie coming up. SO all Wally is gonna do is be in flash and Titans and that's enough for me. I was never under the illusion that Dc was gonna bring him back in a way that made sense or satisfied everyone so I will take what I can get.

[kingaliencracker]

You've got a weird way of not starting down paths. I mean, you are the person that replied to one of my post with how Moore doesn't own Watchmen, even though said post had nothing to do with that. Are you like, saying you're not going to do something after doing it and also reminding us how comic companies dick others over too? I'm actually ok with not getting into it, but it kind of seems like you really want to.

Yes, DC cheated Moore out of his characters, and they can do whatever they want with them as they've clearly shown. I'm not sure what your point is: That it's ok because it won't hurt Watchmen, maybe? For a medium so built on continuity, it does seem interesting when someone kind of acts like they don't see how doing stupid things with a character could hurt them in some people's eyes.

If you allow things DC does with the Watchmen characters to affect the way you view the original story, then I'm sorry friend - I don't really know what to tell you. I've been reading comics for over 25 years and have seen as many downs with my favorite characters as peaks - and in some cases I've seen MORE downs than peaks - but that doesn't change how I feel about the characters or my favorite stories depicting them.

[The Nuke]

I'm just happy I can read my Batman stories and feel that they actually matter to the universe again.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm excited as all hell, I just hope it doesn't suck.

That right there is the KEY-all those spoilers mean nothing if the stories are crap.

Johns has bull-sized balls! I wish I had a time curtain to peak into Thursday morning next week.

No he doesn't-this is what you should have been doing since day ONE.

This is what happens when everyone stop playing fanboy games and think stuff out. There are still plenty of others that need to be fixed but at least you go the MAIN one dealt with. Now that the red head is back-that is one less barrier between winning over more fans or brinign back old ones.

[Badou]

They're not combined. They're the same universe.

Classic version is the "correct" version. It got mucked up and the New 52 is the old universe, with its history altered. One universe, altered history. Altering the history didn't create a separate universe. Same universe as pre-Flashpoint in its damaged form is the New 52 Prime Earth. Having its history changed didn't make it a separate universe.

Hence why the pre-Flashpoint Barry experienced Flashpoint and came out of Flashpoint as the New 52 Barry. Except now he remembers the old universe. Because he's the same guy, his timeline just got damaged.

The only question really aside from the how's and why's is who the two Supermen are. Classic Superman thinks he's a refugee from a destroyed earth. New 52 Superman is dead and thought he was this earth's Superman. They were both wrong, apparently. The implication is that this is pre-Flashpoint Superman's earth and time and history got so damaged that he thought it was another earth because its past had been changed so much. New 52 Superman wasn't who he thought he was but we don't know who he was yet.

I'm not really talking about two different universes. The problem is that you have events and stories that can't coexist together because they contradict each other. That was what I was talking about. For example. In the New 52 Dick didn't become Robin until he was 16, but he obviously became Robin around 10 before Flashpoint. So which version is right? Is it 16 because that is what happened in this "altered" universe or is that false and it is actually 10 now?

Basically what I'm asking is what "version" of a story or event takes precedence. Is it pre or post Flashpoint? Or is everyone just going to have two sets of memories eventually?

Helena wasn't black. She was just Italian. I'm sure her skintone and hair will vary a bit. They said at the time they were just trying to make her look more like a real Sicilian.

She is black or at least part black. She looks very different to what she looked like pre-New 52. So there is a contradiction there.

[GDC3]

Maybe due to all the Multiversal events, Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Zero Hour, etc. 3 have existed in this world pulled from across the multiverse.