Should We New52 Superman Fans Resign Ourselves to SuperDad, and, if so, How?

[SuperCrab]

I hope new52 Superman comes back full time, and would probably be okay with him getting a few of SuperDad's memories or whatever to added to his own, as other new52 characters may be getting from their past selves, as long as he comes back. However, I don't think he will come back

Part of me would like to be persuaded that I should get the SuperDad books, or at least one of them (i.e. Superman *or* Action Comics), or at least one side book like the new Justice League. But I really have found SuperDad a boring and dislikeable character when I've read him, and I resent him taking my favorite character's place. I also dislike kid superheoroes in general, so his 10 year old son being one and being a huge part of the Superman and Action Comics titles for the first few months (And likely beyond) is a huge turnoff (Going by solicitations, it sounds like Superman is like that from the word go, whereas Action Comics eases us in, but they both get there).

So, this thread isn't about arguing about the merits of the two versions of Superman, really. Its about is there any way people like me can come to terms with this and embrace SuperDad? If so, how would we do it? Is there some way of thinking about it that I'm missing?

I mean, if they somehow do bring back new53 Superman, I assume I'll hear about it, either here and on the comic book sites if I stick around, or maybe word of mouth if I don't, and I can then pick up the titles from that point if it happens, and even could consider getting the back titles, especially if they are on sale, to see how things got to this "happy ending" if I want to.

But assuming my guy is never coming back, is there any good way to psych myself into liking the new guy and his son at least enough to buy and enjoy his issues? Should I even be trying to find that out, or just vote with my wallet and say its the entertainment company's job to present something I like enough to want to buy without psyching myself into it, and just move on?

I don't want to just stick around as a subscriber just in case or assuming my character comes back, because if I'm right and he doesn't, I'll have wasted time, money, and so forth, and set myself up for another grave round of disappointment. It also occurs to me that I should vote against this new direction with my wallet, in case that makes a difference along with other people doing the same thing (It probably won't, but it's not impossible).

I do love Superman, though. Is that enough? Should it be enough? How can I think of this in a way that'll make me want to read and enjoy the comics?

[manofsteel1979]

If you are specifically attached to a particular version, and don't see yourself liking another version, don't force yourself. If you don't like something and it's going to literally cause you displeasure to read it, don't. Save your money and sanity. If you eventually come around and find something to like, then come back.

Every fan is different. Me, I just generally like Superman comics and particularly good ones. I have my preferences as does everyone,but I'm fairly open minded.

After all as I say often, there isn't a REAL Superman...just the one you prefer and see as the ideal.


Buy and read what you'll enjoy. Don't force yourself to buy things you aren't.

[DieHard200904]

If you don't enjoy it, or it asks you to think too much, then please, don't get what you don't enjoy. Chances are there will be a one Superman universe years down the line, and hopefully less convoluted too.

You mentioned Squadron Supreme so far, so if you enjoy those Marvel equivalent of the Justice League, why not just go for it? I personally am enjoying the various animated presentations of SUperman right now, because there, his story isn't complicated like the DC Universe is going to be come rebirth, the animated versions have a simple story. Elseworlds versions of the character have simple stories. Also, rather than get mad, you can check out the imagination threads that 666MasterofPuppets or myself pull off, because well, presenting your imaginary pitches is something that I have seen the various posters have enjoyment in doing, almost no one argues. IN fact, my most recent imaginary pitch thread is right here, where you think about your own "Elseworlds" take on Superman.

I would recommend the character of Supreme, written by Alan Moore and others for Image Comics, he has a lot in common with Pre-Crisis Superman, and he also has his own people who he has endowed with power in the form of Kid Supreme, Suprema, and Radar. If you like Bronze Age/Silver Age DC, you would like the character known as Supreme.

[GodofBoredom]

It wouldn't make sense for him not to come back, spoilers:

considering the fact that he's BOTH versions, pre-Flashpoint and New 52, it's just that his memory/time has been plucked out by Dr. Manhattan.

end of spoilers

But then again, it's DC, so until he come back, I'm not buying any Superman books.

[Ascended]

Over the years Ive learned that there is no such thing as the "real" Superman, merely different versions of the same construct. I certainly consider certain versions to be more "true" to the idea than others, but in the end, I have never found a version of Superman in any format, from any era, that didnt contribute something worthwhile to the collective whole.

Read what you like. Skip what you dont. I feel like you've asked this question before, have you not?

My only thought is this; check out one of the Rebirth specials. If you dont know what you're missing, you wont know whether you'll like it or not. So drop the 3 bucks to find out, assuming you have 3 bucks to burn on something that might not appeal to you. If not, check out the reviews and stuff, see what others say, and then decide.

If this is something you're not interested in (and trust me, I get that) then you have a chance to branch out into other Superman eras. This is what happened to me in the early 00's. The books, which had honestly been getting weak for years, finally hit the point I couldn't stand reading them anymore. So I started getting older material for my Superman fix, and that opened up a whole new world I had never given much thought to. Reading the older material completely changed my view of the character, and I started looking at the totality of his history and not just the era I happened to start reading first. Believe it or not, until that point I was a die-hard post-Crisis supporter.

So if this convoluted mess of a whatever the f**k Rebirth is supposed to be doesnt interest you, might I suggest you pick up some Golden Age and Bronze Age material instead? The early Action/Superman stuff is pure gold, and very much akin to Nuperman in attitude. Well worth it. And some of the Bronze Age stuff....well, the Bronze Age was likely the best era of Superman ever; all the power and scale and scope of the Silver Age, all the character work and development of the modern age, but very little of the ridiculous excesses the Silver Age is known for.

[DragonPiece]

I was probably one of, if not the biggest New 52 Superman supper on these forums back in 2011-2012, and I have already accepted super dad over the past month. We know he will eventually return anyway, so we might as well embrace seeing some new stories. Our love for Nuperman will only grow waiting for him to return and it'll be interesting seeing Superman as a dad.

[beetee]

Just to paraphrase something that was said several years ago when the New52 came out.... Those of you hoping the New52 fails, doesn't mean you'll get back the Pre52.... and we didn't really, not with Convergence or Rebirth. So for those of you looking at sales and hoping that Rebirth fails... The New52 is just as 'dead' as the Pre-Flashpoint52 and whatever reboots/fixes that take place will move the pieces even farther away. It's the Trap that DC Comics has built for itself.

[manofsteel1979]

Just to paraphrase something that was said several years ago when the New52 came out.... Those of you hoping the New52 fails, doesn't mean you'll get back the Pre52.... and we didn't really, not with Convergence or Rebirth. So for those of you looking at sales and hoping that Rebirth fails... The New52 is just as 'dead' as the Pre-Flashpoint52 and whatever reboots/fixes that take place will move the pieces even farther away. It's the Trap that DC Comics has built for itself.

Exactly. Even if Nuperman comes back, he will likely be more like the current Superman with a different costume, perhaps some MAJOR retcons to his history and I highly doubt the Wonder Woman ship will continue. He may end up Nuperman in name only.

[Ascended]

Exactly. Even if Nuperman comes back, he will likely be more like the current Superman with a different costume, perhaps some MAJOR retcons to his history and I highly doubt the Wonder Woman ship will continue. He may end up Nuperman in name only.

Dude, the "MAJOR retcons" ship sailed over a year ago when Superdad showed up in the first place. There's no way DC doesnt completely re-write Super-history at this point, and they've been doing it for several months already.

From what Ive heard it sounds like DC is phasing Nuperman and his history out completely, saying he wasn't "really" Superman at all, ever, but....I guess a stopgap measure because Superdad was stuck on Telos, or whatever the Convergence planet was called. A proxy because the "real deal" was stuck outside of time (which means Brainiac and Dr. Manhattan are at odds with each other, which I gotta admit is a fun idea).

Hoowever, if that doesnt pan out (DC will bail on the idea as soon as things look to be headed south or they get distracted or bored) I could now see a continuity merger happening. I didnt think DC would be foolish enough to try it, but....at this point I dont put anything past them, no matter how terrible. Hell, the worse the idea the more likely it seems. So we may end up with a Nuperman rookie year (t-shirt and jeans) and one Kent alive (to split the difference, and it'll certainly be Martha), 52 Lana (she's actually interesting and is still being used) 52 Lex (Johns has built him up too much to let him go) along with maybe a couple other 52 villains (Zod, Brainiac at least) and then post-Crisis for most everything else, including the supporting cast, marriage, Jon, age, and major life moments like Death-Return, Beyond, and Final Crisis (I doubt they'll ever acknowledge anything from WoNK to Grounded outside of a vague throwaway mention for us old timers).

I give it even odds that the theoretical merger ends up with the Solar Flare (I still prefer Super Nova) power and the implication that more are to come. Johns introduced it and made it a big part of the mythos over the last few years, but its boring, pedestrian, un-inspired and most people seem to either dislike it actively or just not care. So.....Im 50/50 on whether DC would want to carry that over. Personally, I wouldnt be against it; the drawback feels far more Superdad than Nuperman, makes more sense for his biology, and would open up the hope of a little more Silver Age and pre-Crisis stuff sticking. Plus, Im a proponent of Superman's powerset expanding to reflect the solar/quantum nature of his abilities a little bit (emphasis on little bit).

I dont see it happening though, I think DC will just force post-Crisis history into the current one no matter how badly it fits, but honestly, the merger doesnt sound half bad at this point. Best of both worlds, with the kind of stitched-back-together-wrong continuity DC seems to think works for Superman. It certainly wouldnt be Nuperman, and it wouldnt be Superdad any longer either, but it might be something better than both. You know, if the management was worth a damn.

[manofsteel1979]

Dude, the "MAJOR retcons" ship sailed over a year ago when Superdad showed up in the first place. There's no way DC doesnt completely re-write Super-history at this point, and they've been doing it for several months already.

From what Ive heard it sounds like DC is phasing Nuperman and his history out completely, saying he wasn't "really" Superman at all, ever, but....I guess a stopgap measure because Superdad was stuck on Telos, or whatever the Convergence planet was called. A proxy because the "real deal" was stuck outside of time (which means Brainiac and Dr. Manhattan are at odds with each other, which I gotta admit is a fun idea).

Hoowever, if that doesnt pan out (DC will bail on the idea as soon as things look to be headed south or they get distracted or bored) I could now see a continuity merger happening. I didnt think DC would be foolish enough to try it, but....at this point I dont put anything past them, no matter how terrible. Hell, the worse the idea the more likely it seems. So we may end up with a Nuperman rookie year (t-shirt and jeans) and one Kent alive (to split the difference, and it'll certainly be Martha), 52 Lana (she's actually interesting and is still being used) 52 Lex (Johns has built him up too much to let him go) along with maybe a couple other 52 villains (Zod, Brainiac at least) and then post-Crisis for most everything else, including the supporting cast, marriage, Jon, age, and major life moments like Death-Return, Beyond, and Final Crisis (I doubt they'll ever acknowledge anything from WoNK to Grounded outside of a vague throwaway mention for us old timers).

I give it even odds that the theoretical merger ends up with the Solar Flare (I still prefer Super Nova) power and the implication that more are to come. Johns introduced it and made it a big part of the mythos over the last few years, but its boring, pedestrian, un-inspired and most people seem to either dislike it actively or just not care. So.....Im 50/50 on whether DC would want to carry that over. Personally, I wouldnt be against it; the drawback feels far more Superdad than Nuperman, makes more sense for his biology, and would open up the hope of a little more Silver Age and pre-Crisis stuff sticking. Plus, Im a proponent of Superman's powerset expanding to reflect the solar/quantum nature of his abilities a little bit (emphasis on little bit).

I dont see it happening though, I think DC will just force post-Crisis history into the current one no matter how badly it fits, but honestly, the merger doesnt sound half bad at this point. Best of both worlds, with the kind of stitched-back-together-wrong continuity DC seems to think works for Superman. It certainly wouldnt be Nuperman, and it wouldnt be Superdad any longer either, but it might be something better than both. You know, if the management was worth a damn.

I'm still waiting for them to come to their senses and find some way to to merge the precrisis, post crisis and New 52 Superman together into a single version. hell, Morrison sort of did that already by virtue of insinuating that all the various Superman back stories are the result of meddling by 5th dimensional beings. I personally would try and find a more elegant way to explain everything, but at least he tried.

What's funny is I've never seen these illerations as different characters, just different takes on the same source material and character with different elements played with and made important or not so important based on the editorial preference at the time, and aided by whatever continuity tweeks that were concocted recently. In my mind Precrisis is the same guy as the post crisis who is the same guy as preflashpoint who is the same guy as New 52.

That was until they suddenly decided they were literally two separate characters, which tosses all that out the window. Now I can't see it all as the same guy anymore, and it's unfortunate.

[DieHard200904]

I'm still waiting for them to come to their senses and find some way to to merge the precrisis, post crisis and New 52 Superman together into a single version. hell, Morrison sort of did that already by virtue of insinuating that all the various Superman back stories are the result of meddling by 5th dimensional beings. I personally would try and find a more elegant way to explain everything, but at least he tried.

What's funny is I've never seen these illerations as different characters, just different takes on the same source material and character with different elements played with and made important or not so important based on the editorial preference at the time, and aided by whatever continuity tweeks that were concocted recently. In my mind Precrisis is the same guy as the post crisis who is the same guy as preflashpoint who is the same guy as New 52.

That was until they suddenly decided they were literally two separate characters, which tosses all that out the window. Now I can't see it all as the same guy anymore, and it's unfortunate.

I really don't know anymore. I mean you can always count on comic book publishers doing one thing: making some story more complicated than it actually has to be.

[Myskin]

I dont see it happening though, I think DC will just force post-Crisis history into the current one no matter how badly it fits

The way I see it, it is impossible that they won't do a streamlined version of one, in-continuity Supes at one point (AC 1000?). Well, I know it, so far all of my assumptions about SuperDad have been proven wrong. But there are too many stories at this point which they cannot use without making continuity even more convoluted, or reminding people that there were two Supermen in the main continuity.

I mean: SuperDad is literally a man without a past. They can't do any story about the Kents (which version will they use? Byrne? Waid? Jonathan dead, Martha alive?). Luthor has no shared past with this guy, and no rivalry. Is he supposed to stay a farmer, under a fake name, forever? And what about the unfinished plot points, like the public secret identity? And what will they do every time a story will focus on Krypton? There are at least 4 versions of Superman's home planet which they could use.

I think that SuperDad's situation will be resolved in the same way they will deal with the 3 Joker-Marx brothers. And, even if they said that they won't reboot again, they need a streamlined continuity. They won't call it Crisis or Flashpoint 2, but they'll do it. Maybe they will simply publish a renewed History of the DC Universe - something they should have done years ago.

[Ascended]

The way I see it, it is impossible that they won't do a streamlined version of one, in-continuity Supes at one point (AC 1000?). Well, I know it, so far all of my assumptions about SuperDad have been proven wrong. But there are too many stories at this point which they cannot use without making continuity even more convoluted, or reminding people that there were two Supermen in the main continuity.

I mean: SuperDad is literally a man without a past. They can't do any story about the Kents (which version will they use? Byrne? Waid? Jonathan dead, Martha alive?). Luthor has no shared past with this guy, and no rivalry. Is he supposed to stay a farmer, under a fake name, forever? And what about the unfinished plot points, like the public secret identity? And what will they do every time a story will focus on Krypton? There are at least 4 versions of Superman's home planet which they could use.

I think that SuperDad's situation will be resolved in the same way they will deal with the 3 Joker-Marx brothers. And, even if they said that they won't reboot again, they need a streamlined continuity. They won't call it Crisis or Flashpoint 2, but they'll do it. Maybe they will simply publish a renewed History of the DC Universe - something they should have done years ago.

Oh, Im quite sure that DC will just roll Superdad's history over the 52's with no real concern for dangling plot points (when have they cared in recent years about that sort of thing?) or the mess that pre-52 history was in (official origin is multiple choice. Yeah, that worked out great!)

At this point I wouldnt be surprised if they do that without much thought for which version they go with either. We'll likely end up with a smattering of the various post-Crisis histories and maybe some scrapes of the 52 as writers pull whatever they want (or whatever Berganza wants anyway, DC isnt exactly creator friendly these days) without much, if any, forethought for how it'll mesh with whatever else they're pulling out.

Best case scenario for Superman is they merge the continuities. Make Superdad a "viable" part of this universe, keep the best aspects of the 52 and make it as seamless as possible (which isnt very smooth in even a best case scenario but whatevs) but I would not be surprised at all if they just dump post-Crisis in its entirety onto the current DCU.