Should We New52 Superman Fans Resign Ourselves to SuperDad, and, if so, How?

[The Shredder]

I feel you have some poor choice of words here - what Morrison did truly COULD have, and SHOULD have been a revitalization and changing back on the public image and style of stories told with the character, similar to Miller's Batman - it's just such a gosh-darn SHAME that WB didn't use and promote that energy and vision correctly. : [

The fact that it didn't happen doesn't mean the actual idea and stories aren't the right way to go.

Don't you remember the excitement from back then? How it even brought in new fans - that could never even imagine a Superman that was so different, so raw, that Superman was actually supposed to have that physical Siegel/Shuster energy to him?

Damn dude...! The net was ablaze from those first few previews.

Yeah, woulda, coulda, shoulda. That seems to be a common statement when it comes to the New52 era of Superman, and needless to say, it never reached that apex the Nuperman apologists were hoping for. I mean, damn dude, whenever the quality of Superman's New52 era is brought up, it STILL goes back to almost exclusively using Morrison's run as a crutch even in 2016! Kinda makes you wonder if Rebirth wasn't conceived, would this be the case in, say, 2020? 2025? I know. I know. "The potential was there!", and hey maybe it was (though hell you could say the same for American Alien if it was promoted as a ongoing reboot rather than a elseworlds-type story), but after 4 long years, it became quite evident that the so-called excitement/potential time clock was running out. Much like the dwindling sales. Which, I mean, hoovering around 2010 levels of sales is pitiful. Especially considering the amount of media exposure Superman has enjoyed since 2011.

Best case scenario, Morrison would have stayed writing Nuperman for a extended amount of time that would have been similar to his run on Batman. That would have made a difference. As Nuperman definitely would have benefited having a steady direction in those books. It's just not the reality of the situation.

[Francisco]

I don't think cocky is the right word to describe new 52 Supes. He was just self confident and enjoyed been himself. He had an edge to his personality which contrasted with the bland personality of the earlier incarnation during his last days. I think only Geoph Jones wrote him kind of cocky during his first appearances in Justice League. One reason I can't accept the notion the New 52 was a copy or a construct is that the guy was just too strong, too selfless to just be someone's fabrication.

[ijacksparrow]

I think New 52 Supes was never THE Supes. And that's not matter of preferences, but where the story is heading. For some reason, maybe Superman is the one character that Manhattan couldn't mess with, so instead of changing his timeline, he created a 'Matrix' version of Superman, a powerful being that has all his powers, likeness, but isn't really him.

Sort of a riff on this:



That was the very first thing that came to my mind when New 52 Supes disappeared. He didn't die like a Kryptonian would, like it happened with After Crisis Clark. He simply disappeared, like Matrix did back then.

I think the point is that this isn't really Supes world, this is Dr. Manhattan's world with all the characters from Supes timeline messed up. Eventually they'll be able to get rid of Manhattan's influence and "get back" to Supes world, which is the real one.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yes, a GREAT BLATANT REGRESSION. Superdad is only the beginning.

-Costumes (Parts of WW armor again yellow, and I liked the silver color, was more modern)
-Origins(WW change his origin, soon we return to the old)
-Superman should again behave like superdad, now he is superman
-Old characters, although this nonsense was not necessary to reintroduce them..

Her relationship with Superman, his costume, origin... Nothing of new52 in Wonderwoman, she returns to the old again..

For weeks I think about it .. DC notice us of the return of old.. When rebirth end In 2 years... This world will be unrecognizable and similar to the old world. I only need to be seen whether I will stand, in few comics or send DC to the hell, for this FARCE.

Well, to be fair, Dan Jurgens tried to offer some comfort to n52 Suoerman fans via a recent tweet. However, you may very well be right. Rebirth could end up being one gigantic retcon, but only for Superman. Which is sad, and further proof that they simply don't know what to do with him.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah, woulda, coulda, shoulda. That seems to be a common statement when it comes to the New52 era of Superman, and needless to say, it never reached that apex the Nuperman apologists were hoping for. I mean, damn dude, whenever the quality of Superman's New52 era is brought up, it STILL goes back to almost exclusively using Morrison's run as a crutch even in 2016! Kinda makes you wonder if Rebirth wasn't conceived, would this be the case in, say, 2020? 2025? I know. I know. "The potential was there!", and hey maybe it was (though hell you could say the same for American Alien if it was promoted as a ongoing reboot rather than a elseworlds-type story), but after 4 long years, it became quite evident that the so-called excitement/potential time clock was running out. Much like the dwindling sales. Which, I mean, hoovering around 2010 levels of sales is pitiful. Especially considering the amount of media exposure Superman has enjoyed since 2011.

Best case scenario, Morrison would have stayed writing Nuperman for a extended amount of time that would have been similar to his run on Batman. That would have made a difference. As Nuperman definitely would have benefited having a steady direction in those books. It's just not the reality of the situation.

I understand. But isn't that the case here? Poor writing? I mean, the exact same thing happened to Superman pre-FP. And I reckon that was the main reason for Flashpoint/new52 again. So here we are, once more, because DC didn't have the guts to stand by new52 and just get some good stories out there, stopping editorial from meddling.

[adrikito]

Well, to be fair, Dan Jurgens tried to offer some comfort to n52 Suoerman fans via a recent tweet. However, you may very well be right. Rebirth could end up being one gigantic retcon, but only for Superman. Which is sad, and further proof that they simply don't know what to do with him.

Or they were on other topics until now. Or old fans of superdad are returning here... Today I see many fans of superdad Here

Someday this will be as ComicVine, full of fans superdad.

[Myskin]

Yeah, woulda, coulda, shoulda. That seems to be a common statement when it comes to the New52 era of Superman, and needless to say, it never reached that apex the Nuperman apologists were hoping for. I mean, damn dude, whenever the quality of Superman's New52 era is brought up, it STILL goes back to almost exclusively using Morrison's run as a crutch even in 2016!

You are right.
Seriously, you are right. Even if I don't think that what they are currently doing with Rebirth is the real solution to the problem. Quite the contrary, in fact.

[The Shredder]

I understand. But isn't that the case here? Poor writing? I mean, the exact same thing happened to Superman pre-FP. And I reckon that was the main reason for Flashpoint/new52 again. So here we are, once more, because DC didn't have the guts to stand by new52 and just get some good stories out there, stopping editorial from meddling.

Oh it is. I've made it no secret that I am jaded on the Superman Rebirth scenario, mainly because despite Post-Crisis Superman being, I guess, "My Superman", even though I didn't loose any sleep when he was put on the shelf in 2011, I have little faith in the editorial at DC to consistently shell out great Superman stories. With consistent being a major factor. Maybe that will change now? Who knows, but I'm not blindly putting alot of faith that it will. Pre-Flashpoint Superman was absolutely floundering prior to New52, and what was going on with Nuperman stories and sales prior to Rebirth? Floundering once again! Despite all the gravitas/potential/would've/could've/should'ves, it was flailing. Similar to, as you pointed out, Pre-Flashpoint Superman.

I mean, I can sit here and point out arcs and storylines that I thought was great and had a impact on the Superman mythos in the Post-Crisis Superman era, but would it be right or even fair to just ignore the years and times, especially in that 2010 time frame, where the Superman books was most assuredly mediocre at best? Not really. It is what it is. The New52 Superman era shared this as well. Once again, it is what it is. Potential means nothing if it's not even harnessed.

[The Shredder]

You are right.
Seriously, you are right. Even if I don't think that what they are currently doing with Rebirth is the real solution to the problem. Quite the contrary, in fact.

I'm not exactly crazy about the execution of Superman Rebirth either, but I guess I've come to resign myself to think of it as less about the lackluster transition from Nuperman back to Post-Crisis Supes, and more about what might come out of the shakeup with some of the new Super cast of heroes, a son, and the supporting players. There's potential there once again, but it's ultimately up to DC to actually utilize it for once.

[L.R Johansson]

Or they were on other topics until now. Or old fans of superdad are returning here... Today I see many fans of superdad Here

Someday this will be as ComicVine, full of fans superdad.

You know, I'm not the biggest Superdad fan or anything, but I wish you wouldn't write it like that - it's kind of an inflammatory thing to say.

A better way to say it is: "I just can't be happy about Rebirth, because I'm in mourning of Nuperman. I really wish it wasn't like this!"

Yeah, woulda, coulda, shoulda. That seems to be a common statement when it comes to the New52 era of Superman, and needless to say, it never reached that apex the Nuperman apologists were hoping for. I mean, damn dude, whenever the quality of Superman's New52 era is brought up, it STILL goes back to almost exclusively using Morrison's run as a crutch even in 2016!

You are right.
Seriously, you are right. Even if I don't think that what they are currently doing with Rebirth is the real solution to the problem. Quite the contrary, in fact.

I thought what The Shredder meant was that Rebirth is the right move though? And that it will generate sales, and that a older, more contemplative Superman is the way to go? And if that's what Rebirth is about, wouldn't that mean that he's wrong? (according to your definition)

Shredder - is that what you meant?
Also, could you please stop saying "apologists" about the fans of Nuperman? I'm not calling the fans of Superdad apologists, even though it would be easy to do so - considering the bad sales of his comics prior to Rebirth. Hopefully no-one else is doing so either.

[D4BBT]

The Morrison run seems to be a popular crutch to stand the New52 version of Superman onto, but like manofsteel1979 has essentially stated, outside of that, in the character's 5 year run, there's not much else there to exactly write home about. Everything else, and I mean, EVERYTHING else pertaining to Superman's New52 run, evidently by the numerous comments regarding Morrison, pales in comparison to that. I can see how some people think it was this amazing work of art that should be as celebrated and commended as Miller's Dark Knight Returns, but I can't say I was one of them personally. Morrison did his job, but for me, it was yet another origin tale. Better than others? Sure. As influential as DKR, or will be in the future? Hardly.

I think this is an unfair statement. Snyder's run on Batman is highly praised but it won't have the influence DKR had. I think New52 fans focus on Morrison's run because 1. Origins are popular and 2. I think Morrison gets credit just because he wrote All-star. I've been reading the trades recently of the New52(which I believe the stories work much better in), and I really enjoy them. He'll on Earth, Doomed, Unchained are all great. I think they went on too long for a monthly book, but as a trade they're great reads IMO.

I know most focus on the stories, but this is a visual medium and I believe some of the art on the books has been amazing too. Rags, Rocafort, Lee, Kuder, Tony Daniel, etc. Not all books were home runs, but I've really enjoyed New 52 Superman as a whole and wish he could have had more time.

[Myskin]

I thought what The Shredder meant was that Rebirth is the right move though? And that it will generate sales, and that a older, more contemplative Superman is the way to go? And if that's what Rebirth is about, wouldn't that mean that he's wrong? (according to your definition)

Sorry, I didn't understand your point.

[L.R Johansson]

Sorry, I didn't understand your point.

I'm not sure I understood yours either... : |

[Myskin]

I'm not sure I understood yours either... : |

Ehm...
10char

[The Shredder]

I thought what The Shredder meant was that Rebirth is the right move though? And that it will generate sales, and that a older, more contemplative Superman is the way to go? And if that's what Rebirth is about, wouldn't that mean that he's wrong? (according to your definition)

Shredder - is that what you meant?

Not necessarily that it was the right or best move, but just that I am for a shakeup due to lagging sales and interest. Similar to the 2011 New52 situation. I think I've even posted about myself being more excited about the New52 back in 2011, than I am with Rebirth. Due to the potential and prospects it had. Unfortunately, alot of it was squandered away. Course some continued on without missing a beat (Batman), for others it just became a steady rotation of writers doing their own interpretations, constant gimmicks, crossover after crossover, ect. Which didn't help Nuperman in the least.

My hope is that stuff like that, when it comes to Superman, will cease or slow down atleast, but once again ... I'm jaded and don't have a lot of faith in that.

Also, could you please stop saying "apologists" about the fans of Nuperman? I'm not calling the fans of Superdad apologists, even though it would be easy to do so - considering the bad sales of his comics prior to Rebirth. Hopefully no-one else is doing so either.

Ok man. You got it.

Stuff like this just makes me wish we never would have got a Byrne reboot in 1986. That DC would have allowed Byrne to write his Superman within the continuity of Pre-Crisis and go from there. Atleast it would have exempt us to some extent from Pre-Crisis, vs Post-Crisis vs New52 arguments/preferences, but I know that's just idle daydreaming.