Should We New52 Superman Fans Resign Ourselves to SuperDad, and, if so, How?

[darkseidpwns]

Yeah, man. Exactly. I mean, it's understandable DC wanted a completely fresh take on Superman following COIE, but it became painfully clear that not everyone who was employed by DC in 1985/1986 was wholeheartedly on board with the reboot from the word go. Which caused confusion, and inaccuracies, and paradoxes. All leading to Zero Hour. DC's attempt to fix their issues so to speak. It goes without saying that hindsight is 20/20, but given the often convoluted Superman continuity we have now, it's really is just a shame that DC did not allow Byrne to work within the then-existing Pre-Crisis continuity, and thus save themselves alot of trouble. Byrne, especially for the time as he was very much on the top of his game, was a good enough writer to transition Superman from point A to point B without having to do a hard reboot. As you pointed out, and others have as well, he was actually WILLING to do just that. Marvel does it all the time like you pointed out with Iron Man's backstory for instance, and in spite of new retcons/revelations/ect, you really don't see readers debate over which Iron Man is better? Which Iron Man is preferred? About as close as you can get to that is talking about eras, or a creator's run on the title, but all and all the Tony Stark/Peter Parker/Bruce Banner in todays Marvel is essentially the characters that were introduced back in the Stan Lee days. There is no established divide where continuity/history was practically reset.

That's something I wish Superman had.

Yup,all this fighting over who is Superman just confuses me more than the actual stories. No one fights over whether Batman or Iron Man were real or not, you can legitly believe that those characters as they are now are also the same characters from the 70's.With Superman I think it's because the New-52 and Superman of that era in particular were a massive reactionary stunt , same goes for COIE really, it's just pandering on a massive level. The New-52 Superman frankly was just an unsustainable experiment.

[adrikito]

All I want, all that I hope for, is that at some point I have a young, unmarried, untethered Superman to follow. That's all. Call him New 52 calling him Young and Stupid I don't care. To me that was the main appeal of the reboot, and its still something I desire. To see a Superman start from the beginning and grow within the stories told. I'd never had that before as a reader. I get that plenty prefer reading about an older, veteran Superman; I get that appeal a lot. I just have a different appeal right now.

Whether I'll get that or not in comics form remains totally up in the air. If anything I'd say the odds are still probably against me. But that's the simple nature of it.

At the end ... dreams are dreams.. Superman is cursed by the pre-flashpoint... and almost the rest of DC....

Appears one character who reconciled me with Superman, I came to respect this character equal to or more than batman(I never believed that the fall of a character, could affect..) and now returns the character who antagonized me with him.. After removing the superman who respect

[Kuwagaton]

Marvel does it all the time like you pointed out with Iron Man's backstory for instance, and in spite of new retcons/revelations/ect, you really don't see readers debate over which Iron Man is better? Which Iron Man is preferred? About as close as you can get to that is talking about eras, or a creator's run on the title, but all and all the Tony Stark/Peter Parker/Bruce Banner in todays Marvel is essentially the characters that were introduced back in the Stan Lee days. There is no established divide where continuity/history was practically reset.

That's something I wish Superman had.

It's pretty much nothing with Iron Man except for a sliding timescale. If you want Superman to mesh as well as Iron Man did, all you have to do is take them from payphones to cell phones... which Post-Crisis did.

If the grass seems greener with Marvel, you have to remember that Iron Man and Hulk weren't reaping much reward for this approach for the most part. Iron Man was a B-list character until the movie hit. Outside of a few pivotal storylines from creators who also worked on Post Crisis Superman, it was Ellis, Fraction, and Bendis (now) who provided great selling stories. The Taylor run bombed just last year, not to mention crap like Teen Tony. Bruce Banner also had extreme ups and downs (Waid just tried and failed to make him work), and last I checked he was stuck in somebody's trunk. Peter Parker is... Peter Parker. Like Bruce Wayne, he can just survive really bad decisions because he's the flagship character.

Of course, all of this goes hand in hand with the fact that when Ultimates dropped, the rebooted universe destroyed the old one in sales. Maybe DC should have had two, but if one line is buzzing the other one is tanking. Doesn't sound like smart business.

[DieHard200904]

the part about being unmarried is what I want. Main reason I have hesitations with superdad. I mostly like the Lois Lane relationship when they are just flirting or dating. I don't care when they are married, it's a boring ship at that point.

Why I liked the various Superman animated series ranging from Fleischer to Timm/Dini. There was something between them, but they played it in a nonetheless interesting way. Even humorous at times.

[Francisco]

It's all about timing imo. If you give me 15-20 years of single Superman having great adventures while slowly falling in love with (Lois or anyone else) then yeah I'd be ready for Superman has a husband and eventual father. But if you reboot the character make him young and then immediately (and killed for good measure) get him married, hell no.

[suemorphplus209]

It's all about timing imo. If you give me 15-20 years of single Superman having great adventures while slowly falling in love with (Lois or anyone else) then yeah I'd be ready for Superman has a husband and eventual father. But if you reboot the character make him young and then immediately (and killed for good measure) get him married, hell no.

Pretty much sums it up. I would also add execution to the matter, knowing that there was a replacement in the wing cheapened the story for me by a long shot. If the replacement had been in his own universe and had been magically transported all of a sudden into the middle of the action on the scene by the cataclysmic event of the "death" that would have been a far more enjoyable execution for me. Knowing he had been there cheapened the death for me.

[Shamrock Holmes]

Hmm, wouldn't you say that the latest Rebirth is doing the same thing again though? With reintroducing Superdad, who himself, is actually such a thing - THREE TIMES OVER! 0_o

I actually think I would have preferred Superdad if he was the TRUE John Byrne Post-Crisis Superman - plucked by Brainiac straight out of the Timeline, just after Return of Superman - with a haircut, that is.


Personally, I see PC-Supes and n52-Supes as somewhere in-between retcon (one more day, clone saga) and Ultimates - none of the Superman-reboots quite fit into either of these concepts - they have features of both. Both then being Ultimizations of Earth-1 and Earth-2 Superman respectively.

Superdad is sort of I want to see, in the sense he is a sign that DC is moving away from "safe" mostly Silver/Bronze characters that retreated to(in the "main universe" as of Nu52. The title that has me most excited though is Green Lantern, because - despite not being a big GL fan generally, in the characters of Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz (and also to a lesser degree, Hal as the potential mentor in the way Alan occassionally was for Kyle (my fav GL to date and the only one I've ever bought new comics for previously) in the 90s, is the kinda thing that I loved about DC Comics in the 90s and 00s and was very sad to see go. IMO, if they wanted a 'clean slate verse' (and I can see why they would from a lot of the other posts on this thread) they should developed Tanget or Just Imagine more, or gone "Ultimate-style" and shifted the post-Infinite Crisis New Earth into the new "Earth-2" similar to how they did with the "Golden Age" characters in the late 50s.

[Francisco]

Pretty much sums it up. I would also add execution to the matter, knowing that there was a replacement in the wing cheapened the story for me by a long shot. If the replacement had been in his own universe and had been magically transported all of a sudden into the middle of the action on the scene by the cataclysmic event of the "death" that would have been a far more enjoyable execution for me. Knowing he had been there cheapened the death for me.

More interaction between both version would also have helped a lot. Superdad and Superman just met up as the latter was about to die.

[A Guy's Name]

Right now, I'm thinking that, every time DC comics starts something and the operation of the company begins at the head office with all the editors, writers, publishers doing their thing, we should play the theme song from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

Dennis can work in DC as SuperBoy-Prime.
Everyone; Harras, Berganza, Didio, Johns and so on, can be the cast as the Gang runs DC into the ground with their incompetence. Would be just like the real TV show.

[DieHard200904]

More interaction between both version would also have helped a lot. Superdad and Superman just met up as the latter was about to die.

Well, there is JSA #9-22 if you want to see two Supermen team up briefly, or the Infinite Crisis or Crisis on Infinite Earths, for a similar purpose. I agree that the death method made the whole thing cheap suemorph, the stakes were always higher for me when I had a Superman who was apparently the only one in his universe while he was in peril of death. I guess I developed a bias for the JSA one though, because it was awesome seeing a gung ho,stronger, Superman from another universe, and it essentially advertised an Elseworlds story to me all in the same shot.

[DieHard200904]

At this point I'd prefer a solution of separating the world into two, and make one of them, probably the New 52 one, an Ultimate-like line. I remember when the reboot initially happened people kept asking why not just do an ultimate line. At the time I argued against it, but in retrospect maybe it would have been the better option.

I would take your idea and simply turn the New 52 Universe into an Multiverse/Elseworlds Universe. That way, DC won't likely screw with the universe and the characters if they aren't canon, then you can leave the various characters with a form of sendoff, and let DC go about their merry ways in a universe that is both canon and a continuation of Pre-Flashpoint, do what they want with that one.

[Francisco]

Well, there is JSA #9-22 if you want to see two Supermen team up briefly, or the Infinite Crisis or Crisis on Infinite Earths, for a similar purpose. I agree that the death method made the whole thing cheap suemorph, the stakes were always higher for me when I had a Superman who was apparently the only one in his universe while he was in peril of death. I guess I developed a bias for the JSA one though, because it was awesome seeing a gung ho,stronger, Superman from another universe, and it essentially advertised an Elseworlds story to me all in the same shot.

Thanks for the reading suggestions I'll check it out. It's incredible how much material I had yet to read.

[DieHard200904]

Thanks for the reading suggestions I'll check it out. It's incredible how much material I had yet to read.

You're welcome. The complete list is this, in the chronological narrative of the story itself:

1) Kingdom Come
2) JSA #9-22 (kind of tricky because it is set within the last part of the original Kingdom Come)
You can find it in TPB as JSA-Thy Kingdom Come, with 3 parts.
3) The Kingdom

[Francisco]

You're welcome. The complete list is this, in the chronological narrative of the story itself:

1) Kingdom Come
2) JSA #9-22 (kind of tricky because it is set within the last part of the original Kingdom Come)
You can find it in TPB as JSA-Thy Kingdom Come, with 3 parts.
3) The Kingdom

Much appreciated, man. Already read Kingdom Come but I wouldn't mind reading it again. lol

[DieHard200904]

Much appreciated, man. Already read Kingdom Come but I wouldn't mind reading it again. lol

Oh, I watch it in audiobook form on youtube. Not quite a movie, but almost there. It comes in 19 parts from William Wold.