Should We New52 Superman Fans Resign Ourselves to SuperDad, and, if so, How?

[DieHard200904]

I have come to this conclusion after talking to a user of ComicVine.. This said that this does not look like a clone saga.. and about 2 halves, he told me that both superman were valid..

Definitely. the pre-flashpoint was altered to new52... but.. two characters escaped of this, thanks brainiac Now these characters will be reunited with their other halves.. even superwoman is required to be part of this.. I was surprised that suddenly a young lois take his hair with that style.


We go to live the life of superdad adding superman heroic life... Because DC want to add in his memory everything that lived new52 superman.


It seems so convincing and flawless, superdad would know everything, nothing could remove him and olds fans happy, that this is the end.

For the new fans not say now that everything is in favor of the old continuity in superman... DC answers now that they are two halves together.. and so new fans can not say that they killed our superman.

AND THIS IS... REBIRTH OF SUPERMAN .. now we know the purpose .. who are interested will buy.. I am not interested


this is what the user manofsteel 1979 said.. Cut and paste.

And I leave for this bizarre, complicated storytelling.

[adrikito]

And I leave for this bizarre, complicated storytelling.

the same thing.. They would have been easier with me if I had not started reading comics so far. But I've seen new 52 and this is a farce..

I would buy superwoman to avoid superdad, new 52 lois, but now I know his destiny.. The disease not win because she end fused with the other lois, and this cure his disease(stupid but sure is true).

THIS ENDS WITH A SUPERMOM, SUPERDAD AND SUPERSON(Suporboy). I think this gives laughter.. Now the old fans enjoy, we'll see later


The only positive is that I have learned with time thanks to the clues, another people and internet.. Goodbye superman.. Those 3 jokers do not ruin batman as DC ruin superman, one of these kill the others and 1 Joker again, this only works for one saga

[ekrolo2]

By... just giving it a shot and then ignore it if it doesn't work out for you? I don't know, maybe its because I consciously choose to not get attached to this stuff after nearly cringing to death from interacting with people who take deep, personal offense to comics of all things and not wanting to end up like one of them that I don't really mind this change either way. If it turns out good, I'll have good Superman stuff to read, if I don't? Meh, I'll get some eventually from new material with plenty of old things to tide me over in the mean time. This **** gets changed up so often treating the next status quo as the latest WURST TING EVAR! seems farsical.

[Ascended]

If you have to be well versed to see it, I don't think it's the same as Spider-Man. Compare 1985 to 1995, 1981 to 1991, 1998 to 2008, or 2001 to 2011 for both characters. Look at the difference between 2006 and 2016 Spider-Man, and realize that this character has never rebooted.

You dont have to be well versed to see the personality differences between post-Crisis and pre-Crisis. Im trying to be polite.

This isn't wholly true. Schultz and Casey wrote him the same as ever. Maybe the farm thing came up way more frequently after 1999, but "big and dumb" isn't something you came away with reading so many of his good comics.

No, "big and dumb" is being a little unfair. But he wasn't written as being exceedingly intelligent either. Smart, sure, in an "avergely above average" kind of way, but the super-scientist type stuff? Nowhere to be seen.

[Ascended]

By... just giving it a shot and then ignore it if it doesn't work out for you? I don't know, maybe its because I consciously choose to not get attached to this stuff after nearly cringing to death from interacting with people who take deep, personal offense to comics of all things and not wanting to end up like one of them that I don't really mind this change either way. If it turns out good, I'll have good Superman stuff to read, if I don't? Meh, I'll get some eventually from new material with plenty of old things to tide me over in the mean time. This **** gets changed up so often treating the next status quo as the latest WURST TING EVAR! seems farsical.

Well, that is a level-headed and reasonable stance to have.

We'll see how things play out after Wednesday. I still might give Tomasi an issue. The Rebirth spoilers feel like absolute desperation, and the same management team that ruined post-Crisis and now Nuperman are still in charge so I dont expect higher quality from Superdad....but I did give the 52 reboot a chance when I was against the idea and ended up enjoying the hell out of it.

We'll see. For all my venting here, I do tend to give DC the benefit of the doubt. But seriously, all this Rebirth news? The only thing that sounds even remotely interesting involves a minor side-character in the Aquaman mythos we haven't seen since before the reboot. Much as I love that character, it aint much to go on.

[manofsteel1979]

I for one am giving it a shot. I gave the New 52 a shot after spending countless hours ranting and raving against it in 2011 and found I liked a great deal of it, so I'd be a complete hypocrite to not afford REBIRTH the same courtesy. I give SUPERMAN and ACTION two issues each (the first month) before I make a decision one way or another. I go all digital now and purchase on an issue by issue basis anyway, so that's not changing.

My hopes aren't high,but my mind is open. I just want good Superman stories again. That's all.

[ekrolo2]

Well, that is a level-headed and reasonable stance to have.

We'll see how things play out after Wednesday. I still might give Tomasi an issue. The Rebirth spoilers feel like absolute desperation, and the same management team that ruined post-Crisis and now Nuperman are still in charge so I dont expect higher quality from Superdad....but I did give the 52 reboot a chance when I was against the idea and ended up enjoying the hell out of it.

We'll see. For all my venting here, I do tend to give DC the benefit of the doubt. But seriously, all this Rebirth news? The only thing that sounds even remotely interesting involves a minor side-character in the Aquaman mythos we haven't seen since before the reboot. Much as I love that character, it aint much to go on.

The Rebirth preview was obnoxiously on the nose in its delivery but the Watchmen stuff alone has me really intrigued as a piece of meta story-telling. We'll see how well they pull it off as a story but I think its a cool enough concept and a pretty damn good hook to get people interested. I know some guys who didn't give a damn about Rebirth that're now really excited just for the twist.

[Ascended]

As I mentioned earlier, this is all about being focused on events above focus on character. Personally, I am sick of reboot after reboot with DC. Look, if they want to reset their universe and have that itchy trigger finger to do so, they are getting rediculous. I mean Marvel retcons a bit here and there, but actually rebooting the whole deal in a couple years isn't exactly something they do. Right now, it appears that DC just wants to essentially chicken out and hit the reset button when they could just try sticking to something and telling a story, which is downright lazy. At this point, it would be nice to see DC tank, and have their leadership change. Honestly, with the talent moving away, something tells me that the higher ups at DC are probably not great people to work with.

I agree.

I am strictly anti-reboot. I have never seen a reboot solve problems, all Ive ever seen is them make more problems, and that goes all the way back to the original sin of COIE.

Reboots never fix things.

What fixes things is strong story telling with an eye towards the future and world building. As big a mess as the post-Crisis DCU had become by 2011, the New52 was not the answer (despite it putting out many titles I loved). Likewise, this Rebirth is not the answer. You cant sweep these sorts of problems under the rug with a "Its Watchmen's fault!" and expect readers to respect that. Crap like this is why DC has no consumer confidence and no one is willing to see things through to the end. Why should they? DC itself gives up at the first sign of trouble and hits the reset button like an eight year old gamer.

So, in a few years when this new history or whatever the hell Rebirth is starts to sink and sales go south, what will DC do? Reboot again? Blame Injustice Superman? There's no reason to think this is going to end any better than the 52 has; its the same people involved making, apparently, the same kind of mistakes. So the result is going to be similar.

This is why I have decided that the current management (including the people at WB who Didio and Harras answer to) need to go. I have defended Didio more often that not over the years, because I dont take DC's choices as a personal attack, but I think they've proven that they're not longer fit for the jobs.

Well, I'll give the Rebirth Special a chance to change my mind on this. I'll reserve final judgement until I read that, but from what Ive heard about the plot I think we're looking at the final stage of this regime's downfall (which still will likely take years to end).

[manofsteel1979]

The Rebirth preview was obnoxiously on the nose in its delivery but the Watchmen stuff alone has me really intrigued as a piece of meta story-telling. We'll see how well they pull it off as a story but I think its a cool enough concept and a pretty damn good hook to get people interested. I know some guys who didn't give a damn about Rebirth that're now really excited just for the twist.

Yeah, it kind of had me go "whoa!". I am still stunned sorta.

I don't quite know yet if this is pure genius or a complete disaster waiting to happen. Perhaps it's a little of both. It is ballsy no doubt. It's the king of mindf--ks.

A part of me hopes that at some point DR. Manhattan takes on the form of a certain stocky bald comic publisher with a goatee and whilst in that form, Superdad and a revived Nuperman together punch him out. I know that will never happen and they would never go there,but then again....

[Ascended]

The Rebirth preview was obnoxiously on the nose in its delivery but the Watchmen stuff alone has me really intrigued as a piece of meta story-telling. We'll see how well they pull it off as a story but I think its a cool enough concept and a pretty damn good hook to get people interested. I know some guys who didn't give a damn about Rebirth that're now really excited just for the twist.

If DC wanted to be honest about it in a meta-way, it should have been Superboy Prime, in our universe, forcing Didio and Lee and Johns to do the 52.

This is just dodging responsibility, trying to sound like they had a plan all along (we know they didnt, and the plans they did have were dropped immediately as often as not) and using a celebrated classic as a distraction.

[ekrolo2]

If DC wanted to be honest about it in a meta-way, it should have been Superboy Prime, in our universe, forcing Didio and Lee and Johns to do the 52.

This is just dodging responsibility, trying to sound like they had a plan all along (we know they didnt, and the plans they did have were dropped immediately as often as not) and using a celebrated classic as a distraction.

I don't really get a sense of dodging resonspibility or them trying to spin it into a plan, at least solely from the preview. The preview is pretty blatantly Johns admitting his fucks up in a very on the nose type of way that's short of doing what you suggest here. As for Doctor Manhattan, its kind of similar to what X-Men Apocalypse does with Weapon X for me. Its very obviously pandering but also kind of makes sense so I don't really know if its good or bad yet, but I do know its a damn effective hook.

[Truman Burbank]

Well, Im not going to apologize for my opinion, and if people left because of the opinions myself and other like-minded posters have, that's on them. Its not like we're out here accusing people of not being "real fans" or telling them they "dont get the character" or they're "sexists" or somesuch BS. I've yet to see anyone chased away with pitchforks and torches.

Personally, its not even Superdad that has me ready to leave. Yes, what you say applies to me pretty much across the board, but Superman as a father is something Ive always wanted to see (along with the beard, which is bitchin'), Jon has my interest, and in the early-mid 90's the line was running on a high point I wouldnt mind seeing return. Really, just looking at the broad strokes, this is a status quo Ive been waiting fifteen years to see.

What's pissed us off (well me anyway) is the manner in which DC has brought about these changes. Its not about any particular version. This is just not good storytelling. This isn't being respectful to the source material or the fans. This is just insulting, lazy, and shows that DC has no interest in long-form storytelling and are just chasing short-term gains. Its bad business, bad for consumer confidence, and Id be saying the same thing if they were bringing back the original Kal-L. Granted, if that were the case I might be slightly more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, but bottom line is DC has become incapable of telling good stories regardless of what version of Superman they're using. If they were rolling out Kal-L the stories would likely still be questionable as hell and the execution likely just as bad as what Nuperman has had the last year or two, and what Superdad had before him.

I don't recall asking anyone to apologize for an opinion. Those are what they are.

You personally may not be reacting because of the character, but I certainly believe others are, and I think the reaction to the story elements as a whole would be much more muted if this all involved Pre-Crisis Superman. That's an opinion.

Personally, I don't really care what people's reasons are for hating it. What does bother me, and obviously some others, is that it's in seemingly every thread, even ones that don't start out as negative. There's just this assumption that everything is going to be terrible, and not all of us believe that.

By... just giving it a shot and then ignore it if it doesn't work out for you? I don't know, maybe its because I consciously choose to not get attached to this stuff after nearly cringing to death from interacting with people who take deep, personal offense to comics of all things and not wanting to end up like one of them that I don't really mind this change either way. If it turns out good, I'll have good Superman stuff to read, if I don't? Meh, I'll get some eventually from new material with plenty of old things to tide me over in the mean time. This **** gets changed up so often treating the next status quo as the latest WURST TING EVAR! seems farsical.

Bingo. If you don't like it, don't read it!

[Kuwagaton]

No, "big and dumb" is being a little unfair. But he wasn't written as being exceedingly intelligent either. Smart, sure, in an "avergely above average" kind of way, but the super-scientist type stuff? Nowhere to be seen.

He had a lot of scientific help from others, but that's more being resourceful than not being intelligent. I mean this Superman did solve a solid year of cases without a single punch thrown. In reality, Superman was never the greatest "scientist" hero so I'd rather see him show heart and solve mysteries (tracking down Nekton) than try to push him that way.

Reboots never fix things.

Not because reboots don't work, but just because it's hard not to, at some point, get a lesser product. I mean rebooting Action... we went from the Doomsday story to a near flawless, inclusive origin. There was zero indication from the way Morrison came out that things would end up this way. It was fixed... until it wasn't, lol

[Tayswift]

Not because reboots don't work, but just because it's hard not to, at some point, get a lesser product. I mean rebooting Action... we went from the Doomsday story to a near flawless, inclusive origin. There was zero indication from the way Morrison came out that things would end up this way. It was fixed... until it wasn't, lol

well origins are only the first step, there wasn't any plan or direction for superman. so throw gimmicks to get sales ups, then sales go down throw more gimmicks

[Ascended]

You personally may not be reacting because of the character, but I certainly believe others are, and I think the reaction to the story elements as a whole would be much more muted if this all involved Pre-Crisis Superman. That's an opinion.

Y'know, I cant really argue with that part. I gotta agree, if it was pre-Crisis coming back, some of us would be rolling with it a lot more than we are. I myself would still have concerns, and I know several others would too (because we no longer trust management after years of getting screwed by them) but yeah, it'd be accepted more than Superdad is.

Personally, I don't really care what people's reasons are for hating it. What does bother me, and obviously some others, is that it's in seemingly every thread, even ones that don't start out as negative. There's just this assumption that everything is going to be terrible, and not all of us believe that.

Its editorial. Thats why, I think, many of us are being so cynical. I bet you a billion dollars if this announcement had included "New editorial team" the reaction would have been vastly different. But yeah, the negativity is getting a little thick here, and I say this as someone who has contributed my fair share to it.

He had a lot of scientific help from others, but that's more being resourceful than not being intelligent. I mean this Superman did solve a solid year of cases without a single punch thrown. In reality, Superman was never the greatest "scientist" hero so I'd rather see him show heart and solve mysteries (tracking down Nekton) than try to push him that way.

I think "resourceful" is a better word, yeah. You rarely see Superman do it up Reed Richards style, but this was also the guy who, back in the day, understood science on a level the human race isnt close to approaching and could formulate complex, multi-layered plans in nano-seconds. And you rarely saw that level of intellect in post-Crisis. Hell for that matter it hasnt been exceptionally present in the 52 either, outside of a couple dozen instances. That was one of my big gripes about Nuperman, actually. I dont need or want a Richards style scientist but I do require a Superman who is smarter than 99.999% of the human population, and actually shows it.

Not because reboots don't work, but just because it's hard not to, at some point, get a lesser product. I mean rebooting Action... we went from the Doomsday story to a near flawless, inclusive origin. There was zero indication from the way Morrison came out that things would end up this way. It was fixed... until it wasn't, lol

Oh, Morrison was not the problem. His origin was probably the best Ive ever seen in print. But look at the number of complications COIE created; we needed Zero Hour just to smooth those out, and even that didnt do the job. The New52 created more problems than it solved, and now we need Rebirth to (supposedly) fix that mess. What kind of problems will Rebirth create? It hasnt even hit yet and here we are, unsure of something as simple as "Which Superman came from this continuity?" When you cant even tell who came from what universe, thats a problem, and it hasnt even started yet.

I have yet to see a reboot that has actually worked. Even Superman's New52 reboot, which I largely enjoyed, was only considered "not a mess" because of how badly post-Crisis ended up.

Even Secret Wars seems to have caused some continuity problems. Did Time Runs Out actually happen? If so, then why are cops saying that Iron Man doesnt kill people? There was a global man hunt for him and the rest of the Illuminati and every person on earth knew about it. If not, then why did Hyperion and the Squadron Supreme execute Namor? (that might actually have an answer, my Marvel knowledge is a bit spotty, so if anyone knows please fill me in!)