Do you like that Magneto is no longer the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver?

[Shadowcat]

No. Next question.

[GenericUsername]

I would prefer they shy away from the magic part. Magic characters don't really sell.

I wish her powers would go back to their 90's version of pocket reality changes. Way to much power has ruined what use to be one of my favorite Avengers.

The magic part has been a part of Wanda since the 70s. And she's done pretty well. 90s was still chaos magic.

[GenericUsername]

When considering these sorts of changes to characters, editorial and the writers should be asking a few questions:

Does it add more story possibilities than it takes away?
Does it change past stories in such a way that it damages the character?
Will it take something away from the character that a lot of fans like?

In my opinion, the answers on this retcon are No, Yes, and Yes.

These should have added up to scuttling the retcon.

Wanda was damaged WHEN the family was still in place, so I don't agree at all with that. It also never added anything to her.

[Lucyinthesky]

To answer the question I would say No

On the question of Wanda, I think the relationship adds to her character in the sense that it creates a natural conflict that can be addressed by different writers from her own pov which helps readers to relate to her character or not. When I read the Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch solo series post AXIS I knew going in that they would write them in a different way than before and that Magneto would not be there at all, that didn´t bother me it was ovbious marvel wanted to sell the retcon story, still it was interesting to me to see that despite this fact the writers of both series choose bring the magneto angle to develop the twins story and it didn´t feel unnatural or forced, it made sense for them to be feeling something after the AXIS retcon.

In the case of Pietro:



In the case of Wanda:



So despite the retcon and Magneto abscense the link between the characters still affects them but in a way that helps their characters going forward, not back, and we are talking about stories that were made when marvel was very agaist the link between them, still they never revealed who their father was to leave a space for magneto to be back I guess.

I completely understand why the twins feel that way about Magneto but it´s also true that magneto was pretty much insane the moment they meet him and not ready at all to became an actual mutant leader much less be a father, part of the reason he did try harder to be a good mentor for the New mutants is that he´s very much aware of what he did wrong with the twins so he tried to do better with other people put under his protection and the results show the difference with Dany, Yana, Sunspot et all having nice memories of their time with him as their headmaster and resent him because he left not, because he was bad for them.



Same with Lorna, despite some very poor decisions regarding her, he has indeed been trying to be there for her when she has needed him and she has tried to also help him when he has asked her despite not everything being ok between them or them seeing everything the same way, their relationship, when written well, helps both of them to grow as characters and imo the same has been and can be true for the twins even when magneto is no longer there.

I think a lot more can be developed from their relationships but in needs to be handled in a nuanced way that gives an oportunity to know the pov of o each character and their reactions are natural to past events. I would not get mad if writers let them fight between each other, or being close and look for support from the other, that´s interesting because that happens in real life families, I think for this reason they are stronger when the writers do this and not just focus on one character while let the others suffer for it.



And yes I also would like to see an Anya, maybe a grow up Anya who can give her own opinions and if she´s human or mutant it will bring a natural conflict to the story of all of them and Magneto personally, the mere fact magneto can talk for a long time and be poetic about Magda but can´t bring himself to say a word about Anya this many years after her dead tell the level of importance she has for him and this links his story with Wanda´s in a very natural way given he very much gets how it feels to lose one child in such a violent way.

[GenericUsername]

I'd say it'd add to Wanda if they even had that conflict more than a few times out of her entire 55 years. But it really doesn't and they could easily substitute that with Chthon.

[Lucyinthesky]

I'd say it'd add to Wanda if they even had that conflict more than a few times out of her entire 55 years. But it really doesn't and they could easily substitute that with Chthon.

I disagree Chthon I just a foe for Wanda to defeat, not really different with any one else foe from the Avengers, in the case of Magneto, before and after the retcon, it´s a more personal kind of conflict, which makes her deal with her own motives and the reason why she fights, think of Luke when he knew he had to defeat Vader but also knew he was not ready to kill him, it´s an introspective kind of conflict that can happen with magneto there or not at all and that helps her develop her character beyond the typical "you are evil I will fight you". It´s the kind of introspective that makes Spider -man, Wolverine, Captain America, etc develop as characters, because they have motives and pov beyond the ones belonging to the team they fight with and sets them appart from other characters.

[GenericUsername]

I disagree Chthon I just a foe for Wanda to defeat, not really different with any one else foe from the Avengers, in the case of Magneto, before and after the retcon, it´s a more personal kind of conflict, which makes her deal with her own motives and the reason why she fights, think of Luke when he knew he had to defeat Vader but also knew he was not ready to kill him, it´s an introspective kind of conflict that can happen with magneto there or not at all and that helps her develop her character beyond the typical "you are evil I will fight you". It´s the kind of introspective that makes Spider -man, Wolverine, Captain America, etc develop as characters, because they have motives and pov beyond the ones belonging to the team they fight with and sets them appart from other characters.

No not just a foe, they are linked together forever. She just stayed away from Mags. He literally wasn't there. And to pretend there was something is just gross over-exaggeration. Her parents were the Maximoffs, and they raised her. Were the constant in her stories since right after the Franks. Again Mags has only been around a few times for brief periods in her life. He's not that important to her world. The link is needed more for him than her.

[Lucyinthesky]

Well if we are talking about need neither of them need each other to be characters in their own right or to sell comics, there´s a reason why each one of them got a series with magneto even getting a solo series that lasted more than even the writer of the series would have thought.

My point is that this isn´t a matter of need, it´s a matter of complexity, natural storytelling, character development and family links, all of which this relation adds to them with more than thirty years of story, I do think there´s an underlying relation because of their past in the brotherhood but also their later interactions, the fact he was there at the birth of her twins, the fact she felt betrayed because Pietro chose to go live with Magneto on Genosha, the fact Magneto was there during the darker than scarlet mini, the fact he was there at Luna´s birth, the fact he went to rescue her after Avengers Dissasembled because she called him, the fact Vision got angry at him after being brought back because he was a "bad father" to Wanda, etc this talks of a lot more than a casual relationship between all of them. Maybe there are not a lot of stories between them being an actual family, but the underlying family feel is still there for writers, even those tasked with selling the retcon and readers to ignore and imo that´s the main reason why the retcon still it´s so unpopular and not just the HoM story.

[GenericUsername]

Well if we are talking about need neither of them need each other to be characters in their own right or to sell comics, there´s a reason why each one of them got a series with magneto even getting a series that lasted more than even the writer of the series would have thought.

My point is that this isn´t a matter of need, it´s a matter of complexity, storytelling, character development and family links, all of which this relation adds to them with more than thrity years of story, I do think there´s an underlying relation because of their past in the brotherhood but also their later interactions, the fact he was there at the birth of her twins, the fact she felt betrayed because Pietro chose to go live with Magneto on Genosha, the fact Magneto was there during the darker than scarlet mini, the fact he was there at Luna´s birth, the fact he went to rescue her after Avengers Dissasembled because she called him, the fact Vision got angry at him after being brought back because he was a "bad father" to Wanda, etc this talks of a lot more than a casual relationship between all of them. Maybe there are not a lot of stories between them being an actual family, but the underlying family feel is still there for writers, even those tasked with selling the retcon and readers to ignore and imo that´s the main reason why the retcon still it´s so unpopular and not just the HoM story.

The fact that he went to rescue her was heavily out of character for how he's treated her, and that whole story was heavily out of character for a number of them. Including Cap just handing her off to him, after knowing what he's done to her before. The point of it all is Marvel never did anything with the relationship, and in Wanda's narrative, she never wanted anything to do with it. She was relieved to learn he wasn't related to her. He wasn't the reason she fought. Hell, he wanted her to murder the X-Men. She refused and left. She fights because she wants to do good. Wanted to join the Avengers and fight with them. All her complex and interesting relationships are with people on that side. It's just not there with Mags, and I don't think it would be if they undid the retcon. Because they exist in two different planes completely. She's not his Luke. He's nothing more than a mention. The retcon is unpopular because people that want it want more than is there. Or ever was. Just like people want her to be a mutant so bad, even though it did nothing for her. It's not her power that she uses or has since the chaos magic stuff started. And it was barely mentioned, and would likely be barely mentioned again. Some only watched cartoons and think Mags raised her. Some don't know a lot about her at all. Some are x-fans that want Mags to have a family dynamic. But he can have that with other characters.

[Lucyinthesky]

Not really it makes sense for him to rescue her since at least the 80´s. Tbh this supposed narrative of "he has been manipulating her for years" doesn´t hold when you read the actual comics, the main reason why they have to go all the way back to the brotherhood days to talk in terms of him being a villain for her is that there´s nothing else of substances there to hold that narrative on the later issues where they interacted. Btw Cap was there during that dinner Wanda invited Magneto over, you are talking as if he and she just meet again after the brotherhood but that´s just not true.

I am not saying he´s the reason for her fight, I am saying his existence and her interactions with him both the good and the bad help her in the pov and perception she has on her wish to be a heroine in her own right, be it I want to be over my brotherhood days to I don´t want to be like him, to I want to do this because this is the right thing to do, yes she has a lot of other ppl over at the Avengers she also has a story with them, but hardly any of them bring the conflictive feelings Magneto brings to her. I didn´t just saw the cartoons I never liked how those tackled the family, my take on their relationship comes from the comics themselves.

lol my godness of course she´s not his Luke, she could never be his Luke because she doesn´t want to be, and that´s fine, he had his Luke, well he had a lot of Luke´s many years ago with interactions with other characters over at the X-men side just like Wanda has had her own development over at the Avengers. My example was about the difference between having an outside conflict with a foe and the internal conflicts that comes with a matter that only concerns the ppl who are thinking about it, this conflict is brough again and again in comics because it helps us relate to the characters and really feel for them imo.

I get you are still mad at HoM but they were related and had interactions before that story and it doesn´t have to be an obstacle for them to keep having interactions in the future.

[GenericUsername]

Not really it makes sense for him to rescue her since at least the 80´s. Tbh this supposed narrative of "he has been manipulating her for years" doesn´t hold when you read the actual comics, the main reason why they have to go all the way back to the brotherhood days to talk in terms of him being a villain for her is that there´s nothing else of substances there to hold that narrative on the later issues where they interacted.

I am not saying he´s the reason for her fight, I am saying his existence and her interactions with him both the good and the bad help her in the pov and perception she has on her wish to be a heroine in her own right, yes she has a lot of other ppl over at the Avengers she also has a story with them, but hardly any of them bring the conflictive feelings Magneto brings to her. I didn´t just saw the cartoons I never liked how those tackled the family, my take on their relationship comes from the comics themselves.

lol my godness of course she´s not his Luke, she could never be his Luke because she doesn´t want to be, and that´s fine, he had his Luke, welll he had a lot of Luke´s many years ago with interactions with other characters over at the X-men side just like Wanda has had her own development over at the Avengers. My example was about the difference between having an outside conflict with a foe to have an internal conflict with a matter that only concerns the ppl who´s thinking about it, this conflict is brough again and again in comics because it helps us relate to the characters and really feel for them imo.

I get you are still mad at HoM but they were related and had interactions before that story and it doesn´t have to be an obstacle for them to kee having interactions in the future.

The 80s were when he took advantage of the state that Immortus put her in to put her back into the Brotherhood. The Avengers had to save her. I read the comics. It's there. In her stories. And he murdered Pietro in the story you are trying to romanticize.

Her wish to be a heroine came from all the bad stuff that has happened to her. From becoming homeless after her parents were thought to have been murdered.

You mentioned Luke.

HoM isn't all that's there between them. There's a reason they were afraid of him before they left the Brotherhood.

[Lucyinthesky]

I am not trying to romanticise HoM, I barely talked about it.

I read the inmortuous story, sorry but wasn´t Magneto the one who stopped her from hurting Wonder Man with her hands? and even asked Pietro what happened that she was acting that way and that maybe that had to be about her losing her kids? and didn´t the story implied Agatha helped Magneto get close to her because that would help in waking her up because she was catatonic before he found her? and that most of what happened were manipulations made by inmourtous?

Yes I mentioned him, because he´s a cinematic example of how an internal hero conflict helps to develop both the story and the character themselves, I am sorry you took that to meaning I was saying Wanda HAD to be Magneto´s Luke, that wasn´t my intention at all.

Yes but there has not been just fear between them their relationship is more complex than that and it keep being like that even after HoM. that´s my point.

[GenericUsername]

I am not trying to romanticise HoM, I barely talked about it.

I read the inmortuous story, sorry but wasn´t Magneto the one who stopped her from hurting Wonder Man with her hands? and even asked Pietro what happened that she was acting that way and that maybe that had to be about her losing her kids?

Yes I mentioned him, because he´s a cinematic example of how an internal hero conflict helps to develop both the story and the character themselves, I am sorry you took that to meaning I was saying Wanda HAD to be Magneto´s Luke, that wasn´t my intention at all.

Yes but there has not been just fear between them their relationship is more complex than that and it can be being like that even after HoM. that´s my point.

Magneto just took advantage of her catatonic state. He wanted her to be in the Brotherhood again. It was his second try after she left the Brotherhood. The first was when she had lost her powers and went to go investigate them. And he and Toad showed up.

She's got plenty of conflicts without him though. Again, I don't feel they'd ever make it that important. He has his stuff over on the X-Side, she has her's on the Avengers side. That could be done with Pietro a lot easier.

It's not even complex. She hates him, doesn't want him around. He hasn't come around since AXIS.

[Lucyinthesky]

[IMG]Magneto just took advantage of her catatonic state. He wanted her to be in the Brotherhood again. It was his second try after she left the Brotherhood. The first was when she had lost her powers and went to go investigate them. And he and Toad showed up.

You mean shortly after he came back to earth, in the 60´s? 70´s?, was pretty much insane and fighting eveyone from the FF, to the Inhumans, to Wanda and Pietro, to the X-men etc.

She's got plenty of conflicts without him though. Again, I don't feel they'd ever make it that important. He has his stuff over on the X-Side, she has her's on the Avengers side. That could be done with Pietro a lot easier. It's not even complex. She hates him, doesn't want him around. He hasn't come around since AXIS.[/IMG]

Well he came around in some conversations between her, agatha and during her therapy but yes, I agree she can have other conflicts with other characters, I am just saying that the conflict Magneto brings is of a more personal nature that could be interesting but well this really depends on the writers intend and they always go to the same old "I hate you" in a way Axis helped to show her talking about him in a slighty different way in her own series at least.

Yes I think Pietro has a little more story with Magneto in part because writers tend to be more interested in the father-Son relationship than the father-daughter one, it would be nice to have the Pietro and Magneto, along with Lorna conflict come back once again.

[GenericUsername]

You mean shortly after he came back to earth, in the 60´s? 70´s?, was pretty much insane and fighting eveyone from the FF, to the Inhumans, to Wanda and Pietro, to the X-men etc.



Well he came around in some conversations between her, agatha and during her therapy but yes, I agree she can have other conflicts with other characters, I am just saying that the conflict Magneto brings is of a more personal nature that could be interesting but well this really depends on the writers intend and they always go to the same old "I hate you" in a way Axis helped to show her talking about him in a slighty different way in her own series at least.

Yes I think Pietro has a little more story with Magneto in part because writers tend to be more interested in the father-Son relationship than the father-daughter one, it would be nice to have the Pietro and Magneto, along with Lorna conflict come back once again.

I'm talking about in the part of Darker than Scarlet after she was in the catatonic state from the loss of her sons. It came after Vision and the Scarlet Witch when Wanda invited Mags for Thanksgiving. At that point she was still pregnant with the twins.

Her conflicts with her brother, or Vision are more personal, because they've actually been in her life. She also still hasn't talked to She-Hulk about what she had her do during AD, while Wanda was still possessed with the Life Force.