Do you like that Magneto is no longer the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver?

[Iron Maiden]

Which is why the most annoying aspect of the retcon is that they are not mutants... a status that they have held since their first appearance in 1964.

I guess I'll have to post this again.....


[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but this new retcon can't wave away tons of established detail like the comics showing that Madga gave birth the twins onscreen.

Onscreen? I didn't see that movie But the story with the Whizzer came first which shows that his wife Madeline was at Wundagore mountain. Much later, they had to make up a previously unknown wife for Magneto and then retrofit her into the story from Giant Sized Avengers. That makes for the extremely odd coinky dink of Magda running off to Wundagore Mountain at the exact time as Madeline Frank... and both about of them at the same stage of their pregnancies.

[LordAllMIghty]

In the grand scheme of the mutant mythos and the Marvel comics universe in general retconning Wanda and Pietro's parentage served no more purpose then making Lorna Dane their sister (Remember Zaladane?) -- so, are we to ignore a Sentinels genetic DNA scan that reported that the twins both possessed the "X-Gene"? Are we to simply turn a blind eye to the fact that Pietro was one of many who lost their powers during Decimation? Why was Quicksilver affected when other non-mutants weren't? Spider-Man and the Inhumans retained their powers, so why not Quicksilver?

Don't come in here with your logic...making a point and stuff. Lol

[Iron Maiden]

But it was one of those very few retcons that made all the characters involved better. The retcon of a retcon does nothing for any of the characters involved and in fact weakens them all. Wanda and Pietro were actually Magnetos kids LONGER in real time then when they were not. They were not related for just 19 or so years compared to them being family for over 30 since they were retconed into his kids in 1983.

I think it made things worse for Wanda and Pietro, particularly when Bendis suddenly gives Wanda daddy issues in HoM. She only knew him as a brutish man who forced her and Pietro into serving him in the Brotherhood. He wasn't there for the childhood...the Maximoffs were. And it makes that scene where Magneto forces Wanda into dancing seductively in front of him particularly awkward doesn't it? The origin is more tied to the High Evolutionary than Magneto.

I do not care one way or the other.

They weren't originally, then for ages they were, now they aren't again. I'm sure it'll change again in another decade or so.

Yeah, that's about the way things go in ongoing fiction like this. Hang around long enough as a reader and it will go full circle on a lot of things.

[teapartyofthedead]

Months later, and I still hate this retcon. I can hardly wait for it to be undone. For all the problems the X-films had, at least it acknowledged Pietro's status as the mutant son of Magneto, and had him in a non-jobber wallflower role.

[Iron Maiden]

I liked Age of Ultron's Pietro much, much more that the X-Men film's version. He's more faithful to the comics version and Marvel Studios was able to use the sibling relationship at least. I don't think he was jobbed either. He died a hero's death saving people. At least he's portrayed with an Eastern European background and not a junk food eating teen from the U.S.

[ZNOP]

Again I have to remind people that Magneto as the father was a retcon in the first place.

There are two conditions that fit the definition of retcon...

1. The original meaning: Adding information to the back story of a fictional character or world, without invalidating that which had gone before.
2. The Common usage: Adding or altering information regarding the back story of a fictional character or world, regardless of whether the change contradicts what was said before.

Although they had previously been shown to have two other sets of parents (Django and Marya Maximoff), the retcon of making Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch the children of Magneto only altered the meaning of past events, not what had happened. As it stands Avengers GS #1 only depicts a few frames of Wanda noting that Whizzer and her brother's had similar powers accompanied with a frame of her saying that she/they found a father once more -- while, Avengers #186 clearly provided more conclusive evidence that Erik and Magda were the twins true parents.

Yeah, but this new retcon can't wave away tons of established detail like the comics showing that Madga gave birth the twins onscreen.

Or really the entire plot and thematic elements of Son of M.

A story arc conveniently ignored in order to make case that Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch are not mutants work.

Don't come in here with your logic...making a point and stuff. Lol

Hey, it's the least I can do

[Coin Biter]

I guess I'll have to post this again.....

Yes, you have previously posted that never fulfilled and long abandoned storyline. By that argument, Thor should be building deadly androids because Don Blake did this once in the Silver Age Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch have appeared as mutants for the overwhelming majority of their 50 years or so of publication.

References to brief old storylines can be used well, and can be rather fun and entertaining - Morrison did so in his Batman of Zur-en-arrh in his Batman RIP storyline. This mandated retcon isn't an example of that.

[gurkle]

I thought the most annoying aspect was the retcon happened in AXIS and then nothing was done with it afterwards. QS and SW were shunted on to a second tier Avengers team (Uncanny Avengers), that was separate from the epic Hickman was scribing on Avengers and New Avengers that led into Secret Wars. Wanda and Pietro missed the big happenings of the MU and nothing has been done with their Non-mutant status or parentage status. A lot like the pointless retcon of Tony Stark's parentage and the non-answer we were given to Jessica Drew's baby daddy plot.

How badly do you have to be hurting for ideas if you're resorting to maternity and paternity test story lines?

I figure Rick Remender would have done more with the idea - or tried - if he hadn't left Marvel right after the Uncanny Avengers story with the pointless retcon. Ever since then no one has known quite what to do with Wanda and Pietro, maybe because they're in that strange limbo with regard to their movie rights (they don't receive the same promotion given to MCU characters whose rights are all Marvel's).

James Robinson is trying to work up a new story about Wanda searching for her real mother, but even he knows nobody cares any more.



The Magneto retcon worked because it simplified and streamlined the twins' very confusing backstory; even with all the coincidences involved, their origin became much easier to explain. Complicating their backstory again might have been justified if it led to good new stories, but it hasn't, so it didn't work.

[electr1cgoblin]

Nope. From a storytelling perspective, it removes a large chunk of drama and leaves nothing substantial in its place. One of the most notorious villains of the MU being the father of two long-time Avengers is a potential source of narrative tension between the twins and Mags, the X-Men and Avengers, the Avengers and the greater MU, etc. Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto's children has much less to offer, both in the immediate and the long-term.

Pretty much the way I feel. It also undoes or renders meaningless a lot of past stories involving this dynamic.

What's more, the whole thing was in service of Marvel pushing the Inhumans as a kind of "substitute mutants" and that's apparently going gone in the dumpster anyway. So ultimately you have a bad decision based on something that in my mind, was desperate in a narrative sense; then that 'something' went away leaving even THAT faulty logic meaningless.

I think overall Wanda and Pietro are characters that nobody really understands or knows what to do with at Marvel now, and that's a darned shame.

[Doc Sonic]

One of the worst retcons in Marvel's history. The sooner this is undone the better. Wanda and Pietro will always be Magneto'c kids in my eyes and I have to imagine it is only a matter of time before this is set right in the standard continuity.
House Magnus has been this important thread that has connected the major Marvel properties, from the Fantastic Four, to the X-Men, The Avengers, and The Inhumans. Severing this tie makes no sense.

[hedgehogvampire]

I think it was a really stupid idea that the twins are no longer mutants or Magneto's children. Did Marvel do it just to tick off Fox? Both Disney and Fox could of use the two of them for the movies, so what was the point of changing their species? Especially since out of all of the Avengers Scarlet Witch has gotten noway near as much love from merchandise and games as the rest of the Avengers. I gotten into Marvel through X-men and I first saw Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver in X-men: Evolution and Wolverine and the X-men cartoons were they are Magneto's children. The whole House of M event was based around the three of them being related. Heck Quicksilver was one of the mutants who lost his powers because of the event. How does Marvel explain that?

[The_Greatest_Username]

I think it was one of the dumbest decisions from Marvel in recent history. It made the twins lose some of their appeal.

[Omega Alpha]

Nope. From a storytelling perspective, it removes a large chunk of drama and leaves nothing substantial in its place. One of the most notorious villains of the MU being the father of two long-time Avengers is a potential source of narrative tension between the twins and Mags, the X-Men and Avengers, the Avengers and the greater MU, etc. Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto's children has much less to offer, both in the immediate and the long-term.

Yep, and the ones that suffer the most are Wanda and Pietro. For Magneto, this is just a blip, for them it's devastating, since the connection to Magneto is what defined them outside the universe and created many storylines for them.

[Witchfan]

I think that the twins are getting more popular. Pietro was the best thing about X-Men: Apocalypse, and Wanda is winning fans in the MCU films. The second volume of Uncanny Avengers set up Scarlet Witch's ongoing series, which is a first for her. They have entered mainstream culture for the first time.

[gurkle]

Yep, and the ones that suffer the most are Wanda and Pietro. For Magneto, this is just a blip, for them it's devastating, since the connection to Magneto is what defined them outside the universe and created many storylines for them.

This was actually something I didn't like about them being Magneto's children, that because Magneto was a more famous character, some writers would make everything in their lives revolve around Magneto. When Wanda has been a popular character it's usually in stories from before that retcon took place, or in the late '90s Avengers (which rarely mentioned Magneto). By the time of House of M it was clear that most writers really only knew her as Magneto's daughter.

So I was hopeful that the severing of their relationship with Magneto would at least open them up to some new stories, but it hasn't worked out that way at all. Now writers don't seem to know who they are at all anymore.