A Merger Betweeen SuperDad and New52 Superman in the Offing?

[SuperCrab]

Some have theorized that SuperDad and the new52 Superman may in some way merge together when it's revealed that both universes are essentially the same universe. The other new52 characters are getting some memories and feelings from their pre-52 versions, which is of course my preferred path for new52 Superman, that he stay intact as himself and that they maybe add some memories and experiences where necessary to coincide with what's happening to everyone else. It wouldn't be horrible to have him remember events and villans and such from previous to the new-52, if they kept his basic traits like age, personal history, his own memories of the past five years, and his personality intact.

However, that doesn't sound like what they are doing. Instead, SuperDad looks to be replacing new52 Superman entirely and, honestly, my view has been fairly consistent that, while I do not in any way want SuperDad here as the main Superman of this universe, and want new52 Superman to return to his rightful place in this continuity, that they were going to keep new52 Superman dead permanently barring a collapse in sales (With the exception of perhaps a cameo in a crossover event, or a turn as a villain).

However, recently, new speculation has cropped up saying that perhaps if SuperDad is the only surviving Superman, that he might be merged with the new52 Superman. Honestly, to me this would be much better than just going forward with SuperDad and not seeing new52 Superman again. If we got a SuperDad/new52 Superman hybrid character who remembered the last five years of stories and relationships, that'd be something. It's not ideal, but it's better than just having SuperDad take over and never seeing new52 Superman again. To me, having the last five years count is a big deal. I want whichever Superman remains to remember the comics I've bought and read.

I've been kind of looking for a way to go forward with the Superman line. It was tough because they were killing off my favorite character, essentially tossing out most of the comics I have from the Superman continuity in so far as the remaining Superman would not have experienced them, adding in a SuperKid, and so on and so forth.

If they could just toss me a bone by making this Superman have some elements of the memory and the personality of new52 Superman, that'd help a lot. I know it sounds like a small thing, especially since SuperDad would likely be the dominant personality and keep the kid and the wife, but just merging them together would at least make it so that it's still kind of the continuing adventures of the guy I've been reading about to some degree. It'd also mean that eventually we could have Clark return to the Daily Planet eventually and renew his friendships in a relatively organic way, rather than him being someone who doesn't know these people and who these people don't know, where it would see forced. If he remembers hanging with Jimmy and quitting and rejoining the Planet and everything else, and is 50% or even 30% that Clark Kent, that would help a lot.

I've been looking for a reason to continue with the line, even though I have little interest in SuperDad and detest the changes, and allowing the new52 Superman to actually be part of some kind of merged Superman might be the lifeline I need to keep reading.

That might explain why Superman isn't wearing the trunks, also.

It sounds odd to say that this would make a big difference to me, but it really would- any way for new52 Superman to live on as part of the Superman in the books going forward is something that could give me what I need to stick with the books. I'd rather just have kept my guy around, but if the choice is kill my guy off and put a totally different guy in his place, or to merge my guy with the other guy and have him keep my guy's memories, I'll take the merger.

A Superman without the last 5 years of adventures will always be incomplete to me. If Rebirth is about reconciling different versions of characters- they need to do something to give us part of the Superman we've been reading about for 5 years in some way- sort of an ultimate Superman who remembers everything from 1986-2016, both post-Crisis and new52. Maybe they can even merge in the first two Supermen. It'd beat the alternative of just SuperDad flying around.

[Prime]

No. He is dead. Or he will be in 2 days.

[SplinteringHeart]

Hello SuperCrab, I‘ve been reading your extraordinarily lengthy but insightful treatise on this, and have agreed with you, along with others, like Ascended, Hellacre, SuperDuperman etc...but I must say you‘re showing desperation now!

This merger idea is rubbish, New52 and Superdad are two different incarnations still, no matter what happens in Superman #52 and Rebirth...you‘ve got to be for one or the other, or accept either if you want to follow the character....stick to your original premise, if you prefer New52, you won‘t be happy with Superdad, as I won‘t...but hoping Superdad has some element of New52 in him is not right..IMHO

Cheers

Jon

[DieHard200904]

Some have theorized that SuperDad and the new52 Superman may in some way merge together when it's revealed that both universes are essentially the same universe. The other new52 characters are getting some memories and feelings from their pre-52 versions, which is of course my preferred path for new52 Superman, that he stay intact as himself and that they maybe add some memories and experiences where necessary to coincide with what's happening to everyone else. It wouldn't be horrible to have him remember events and villans and such from previous to the new-52, if they kept his basic traits like age, personal history, his own memories of the past five years, and his personality intact.

However, that doesn't sound like what they are doing. Instead, SuperDad looks to be replacing new52 Superman entirely and, honestly, my view has been fairly consistent that, while I do not in any way want SuperDad here as the main Superman of this universe, and want new52 Superman to return to his rightful place in this continuity, that they were going to keep new52 Superman dead permanently barring a collapse in sales (With the exception of perhaps a cameo in a crossover event, or a turn as a villain).

However, recently, new speculation has cropped up saying that perhaps if SuperDad is the only surviving Superman, that he might be merged with the new52 Superman. Honestly, to me this would be much better than just going forward with SuperDad and not seeing new52 Superman again. If we got a SuperDad/new52 Superman hybrid character who remembered the last five years of stories and relationships, that'd be something. It's not ideal, but it's better than just having SuperDad take over and never seeing new52 Superman again. To me, having the last five years count is a big deal. I want whichever Superman remains to remember the comics I've bought and read.

I've been kind of looking for a way to go forward with the Superman line. It was tough because they were killing off my favorite character, essentially tossing out most of the comics I have from the Superman continuity in so far as the remaining Superman would not have experienced them, adding in a SuperKid, and so on and so forth.

If they could just toss me a bone by making this Superman have some elements of the memory and the personality of new52 Superman, that'd help a lot. I know it sounds like a small thing, especially since SuperDad would likely be the dominant personality and keep the kid and the wife, but just merging them together would at least make it so that it's still kind of the continuing adventures of the guy I've been reading about to some degree. It'd also mean that eventually we could have Clark return to the Daily Planet eventually and renew his friendships in a relatively organic way, rather than him being someone who doesn't know these people and who these people don't know, where it would see forced. If he remembers hanging with Jimmy and quitting and rejoining the Planet and everything else, and is 50% or even 30% that Clark Kent, that would help a lot.

I've been looking for a reason to continue with the line, even though I have little interest in SuperDad and detest the changes, and allowing the new52 Superman to actually be part of some kind of merged Superman might be the lifeline I need to keep reading.

That might explain why Superman isn't wearing the trunks, also.

It sounds odd to say that this would make a big difference to me, but it really would- any way for new52 Superman to live on as part of the Superman in the books going forward is something that could give me what I need to stick with the books. I'd rather just have kept my guy around, but if the choice is kill my guy off and put a totally different guy in his place, or to merge my guy with the other guy and have him keep my guy's memories, I'll take the merger.

A Superman without the last 5 years of adventures will always be incomplete to me. If Rebirth is about reconciling different versions of characters- they need to do something to give us part of the Superman we've been reading about for 5 years in some way- sort of an ultimate Superman who remembers everything from 1986-2016, both post-Crisis and new52. Maybe they can even merge in the first two Supermen. It'd beat the alternative of just SuperDad flying around.

The idea of just merging is BS. I say it straight up. Just keep N52 dead and an inspiration. Those who can't get over the shock of the event don't need to stay on board. Find something else to your liking. I am just going to take a break and maybe see if Rebirth was any good after the fact. I am just confused with all that is going on, how one version of one character is "fake", etc. Maybe, like what DragonPiece says, there will be an eventual return and he's just on the bench for now. But if something frustrates you, it doesn't hurt to take a break from it all. That's what I am doing. It's for the best, to be honest.

[Last Son of Krypton]

spoilers:

Well, Superdad can eat Nuperman's ashes and they'll become one.

end of spoilers

[Prime]

spoilers:

Well, Superdad can eat Nuperman's ashes and they'll become one.

end of spoilers

That's disgusting. Lol the Super Superman.

[Superlad93]

They're probably gonna mold the world around him to fit, if we're all being honest.

But maybe they could reach a "compromise" and age him down a bit (early 30's. He's like late 30's maybe 40 right now).

I think they might just play his inter dimensional refugee status as "just another crazy adventure in the life of Clark Kent".

NU Lois will either have to die from her Jane Foster cancer, or she takes on a whole new identity (then she'll die. Who are we kidding).

The best we can hope for is that each change is gradual.

[manofsteel1979]

I wouldn't put ANYTHING past the current regime honestly. Merger actually is one of the safest ways to go with the least potential for utter disaster, which may mean that's exactly the reason why they won't because the current group I think takes great pleasure in trolling their readers.

I will say though, whatever route they take, I think the endgame is we are more or less just back to the Pre-52 era Supes, as really, costume designs and a few minor retcons aside, REBIRTH is essentially moving the DCU as a whole in that direction. If Superdad ends up as THE Superman, he will end up being the only Superman of this continuity and always was. IF Nuperman returns, he will end up much more like this version in appearance and history, just perhaps without the wife and kid. Either way, the Jim Lee armor wearing, Wonder Woman dating version of Nuperman is gone which frankly doesn't break my heart. I rather they'd just kept Nuperman and just start steering him towards a more traditional take on the character without negating the last 5 years or the good things that came with it. But again I'm not out to troll my readership for shits and giggles, which sometimes I think the current leadership in charge of Superman are doing. Or they are just unaware of how stupid their decisions are for this character going back now 13 years. Either way.

[Kuwagaton]

If you kill him, sweep him away. A Superman who simultaneously remembers a completely different set of memories sounds like a mess from '90s Marvel. Merger sucks.

spoilers:

Well, Superdad can eat Nuperman's ashes and they'll become one.

end of spoilers

lol unless it happens this way

[SuperCrab]

I won't deny that kind of sort of maybe getting behind this idea reeks of desperation, but it comes from the fact that basically we pretty much know SuperDad is taking over and that new52 Superman is dead for good as the world's Superman. If anyone is still coming to a different conclusion, more power to them, but that's how I see it right now. I have dropped my subs (1 issue left) and am basically done when SuperDad shows up, barring something that catches my eye as an individual issue, but basically done (Unless they merge or new52 Superman makes a shocking return or whatever).

Yet, obviously, I love Superman and really *want* a reason to stay engaged with his adventures.

I don't feel like SuperDad is Superman.

A merger with the memories there would give me the excuse I want.

It's not a good solution, but it's better than the only other thing they will likely offer us (Where the new52 Superman is dead and isn't any part of the new guy saying he's Superman), at least for me.

I want to be able to have the Superman that they present remember the things I remember and the stories I've bought and read and can reread. I want to feel that he is at least in some way "my Superman". A merger that keeps the memories and a few minor traits or the occasional feeling or whatever that surface alive, and maybe de-ages SuperDad a few years, gives me just barely enough that I can say "Okay, I want to believe, so I'm going to believe that this is kind of my guy".

Plus, the whole theme of Rebirth is that the new52 characters are good but incomplete because they don't know what happened pre-new52, that they didn't experience those adventures. Well, is SuperDad complete under their very own reasoning if he doesn't have the memories and experiences of what happened *during* the new52? No. So, just extending their own thinking to it's logical conclusion says they need to merge new52 Superman in if they intend to have SuperDad be the Superman here. If they don't do it, it's yet another FU directed at the fans.

I understand and respect what people are saying about preserving his memory in death and not having him sort of live on as some small percentage of what is basically a different guy, but I'm not going to be reading these comics if it's SuperDad with no new52 Superman within or without. Some character occasionally referring to new52 Superman isn't enough. New52 Superman being part of SuperDad with both people memories is enough- not ideal, but just barely enough that I would probably give it a shot.

In a way, wouldn't it kind of be neat to have a Superman who basically can remember and reference anything we've seen in the comics in the last 30 years, including the new52? We could then make the case that basically any post-Crisis comic we'd pick up, including new52, would be the previous adventures of the Superman we're reading about going forward. If new52 Superman just dies and doesn't become a part of SuperDad, that case can't be made. He'd have absolutely no claim to have been the guy from the last 5 years.

I'd rather new52 just keep going, get a separate book, return and take over again, or incorporate SuperDad's memories, but I don't believe any of that will happen. So the best I can hope for now is for a merger.

I've actually been fairly consistent in saying I preferred a merger to the total annihilation of new52 Superman, never to return. I remember numbering a list of outcomes in order of potential preference after WonderCon, and merger was ahead of "Dead and never comes back". So, I've always felt it was a better solution than just getting rid of him completely- better enough to keep me reading whereas otherwise I won't. Still, not in the upper half of *possible* solutions, but the bare minimum to keep me reading.

[adrikito]

Even something old as death and resurrection of superman does not work here..

This death will return completely to the dark of batman tittles... NOW.. I do not see light in superman.. DC and anti-new52 fans has off.

Well... Superwoman remains my choice(and maybe supergirl and new superman, the only super for me).. If DC decides not to remove her too.. BUT Phil Jimenez seems optimistic with her... He says he would like to be successful enough to make a line of figures with the characters of this serie. Maybe she did not die too

I've seen one image of superdad in the tomb of SUPERMAN.. although I do not mind the significance of this

[Ascended]

I rather they'd just kept Nuperman and just start steering him towards a more traditional take on the character without negating the last 5 years or the good things that came with it.

But....but that requires work, and patience, and the ability to hold onto a creative team for more than twelve issues!

Had DC gone in that direction, the obvious method to achieve it is to have Clark and Lois thrown into the future/alternate reality/pocket dimension for a decade (by their reckoning, but just a issue or so for us), so when they come out they're older, married, and parents.

That way they get the status quo DC wants, without the convoluted manner they're using the get there.

[Jadeb]

The talk about spoilers:

neither Superman being what he seems

end of spoilers tells me that Nuperman's story isn't over. There will be one Superman left standing at the end of the day, but I think it's as likely as not that it won't be either of the two versions we now have. At least not entirely. Superman's getting his history back, I expect, but I also suspect that the New 52 will somehow be part of that history.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Superdad turned out to be Kal-L, righting one of Johns' more grievous wrongs from his death-n-gore period that he's now denouncing. Not sure how that would work, but it would make me happy.

[manofsteel1979]

But....but that requires work, and patience, and the ability to hold onto a creative team for more than twelve issues!

Had DC gone in that direction, the obvious method to achieve it is to have Clark and Lois thrown into the future/alternate reality/pocket dimension for a decade (by their reckoning, but just a issue or so for us), so when they come out they're older, married, and parents.

That way they get the status quo DC wants, without the convoluted manner they're using the get there.

If I were to write such a story, I'd just have the Legion of Superheroes show up as Nuperman lays dying and stablize him. They say they have a way to cure him,but he needs to come to the future, and it may take some time. Lois decides to tag along as this is the scoop of the century, they take them to the future in a flash of white light.

Two weeks later at the same spot, Nuperman and Lois return, they are married now and have a 13 year old Son named Jon....who so happens to be the Superboy of the Legion future.

For the rest, just have Nuperman start to remember certain things from the Pre-52 universe like they seem to be for everyone else picking and choosing the best from the Bronze age and triangle era (anything after around 2001 can quietly remain non-canon, as far as I'm concerned)

There. Classic Superman is back more or less, married to Lois and with a son, with the Morrison stories and 95 percent of the New 52 canon still in place (although if everything since the Bizarro issue of ACTION suddenly disappeared I also wouldn't cry). and co-existing with the greatest hits from the 8 decades of Superman's history. No dopplegangers. No cut and paste...and Clark Kent can actually y'know, ACTUALLY BE CLARK KENT AGAIN. Also, with that set up, Superman once again has a natural connection with the LOSH, AND you could easily do a SUPERMAN AND THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES series featuring Nuperman having adventures in the future , while putting a new spin on the Lois and Clark romance, now taking place mostly in the setting of the 31st century....and Jon is already an established Superboy ready to interact with Damien in Super sons.

There. See? I fixed Superman for you DC. Hire me.

[stephens2177]

Wouldnt it have been cool when superdad was taken before the altering of the universe if nuperman was actually a evolved version of pre crisis superman.he would be the next and only superman to use as building blocks to make a superman for the new 52.

Oh and they need to.create a new kon-el from the ashes of nuperman,with kesel,geoff,lobdells superboys memories.