Bubbles vs. Android 18

[abmccray]

Android 18 doesn`t have any KI, does she?
So she`s a special case.

Anyway, another DBZ thread derailed.
Really getting tired of this.

18 has ki, but she wasn't trained with it until she trained with Krillen, and is powered by an artificial energy source. We see 17/18 adding to the Buu genki dama, so they definitely have it.

17/18 are cyborgs. They were humans kidnapped by Gero and mucked with and implanted with a bunch of stuff including bombs and an *unlimited* energy source. Since they are still human, they have ki as well.

16 is a straight up android and doesn't have ki, but works with his artifical energy source.

19 is...I dunno, and andorid that steals ki and repurposes it, I guess, and 20 is a cyborg since he still has Gero's brain, but does the same as 19s.

[abmccray]

I would say Character A is probably not a good character to use on Rumbles, because they are very sparse on feats despite having a good deal of source material in which they appear. Their only feats appear to be in a couple of fights in which they are introduced, then they spent the remainder of their time operating at a much lower level. As such, Character A doesn't have the feats to make them superior to Daredevil, and should thus lose to Daredevil, and the initial fight should probably just be discounted.

That's...not how Rumbles works.

The rules are "high end consistent feats" because comics are written by a billion different people who have different opinions of characters, and that's the only way to get any kind of baseline for a debate as opposed to cherry-picking things.

Feats against other characters count when they are a) consistent and be b) consistent with the portrayal of the character in question.

So, for instance, character A is introduced as The Flash's antagonist. His character introduction is being artificially given the Speed Force in the same way Barry was. He is constantly shown to be exactly as fast as The Flash, when going all out while fighting him. He is never shown to be slower than people that are slower than The Flash. Therefore, in Rumbles, he's as fast as The Flash.

Character B was introduced in his own book as an antagonist for Batman. He was given a special serum that makes him 4X as fast as a normal human. He gives Batman a lot of trouble because of his speed, but is beaten regularly by Batman using tricks that account for that exact jump in speed. However, when character B appears in Justice League, he's giving The Flash trouble all of a sudden. In that case, we don't spot the guy "Flash speed" because it doesn't match up with his character portrayal (being 4X faster than a human does not put him at Flash level), not his consistent portrayal (beaten by things that wouldn't affect The Flash constantly).

There are weird cases like Wolverine's healing factor, which are so all over the place, we just say "uhhh, depends on what day it is," but that's generally how we work with characters on here.

Dragon Ball and a ton of other manga has a) one writer and b) a progression of more powerful foes, so it actually becomes easier to use character vs. character feats with those than it is with comics because you don't have to compare the same kind of history along with that. That's why it's so easy to quote character feats from manga, and why it's used so often.