Would New 52 Superman revealed as Kon-El be the worst character decision in DC history?

[SuperCrab]

As a new-52 Superman fan who's upset that they are killing him off and replacing him with SuperDad, I'm not sure how saying new-52 Superman was Kon-El all along would be throwing me a bone. It'd be more like flipping me the bird.

To begin with, this Superman directly interacted with Kon-El in several of the crossover events. They were both in the same place at the same time.

So, I guess they'd be saying he is the Kon-El from the pre-Flashpoint continuity. Um, so who does that make the new52 Kon-El? Krypto? But wait, there's already a new52 Krypto, so we'll say new52 Krypto was, um, Jimmy Olson, and then new52 Jimmy Olson can be the pretzel guy from the pre-Flashpoint continuity, and then... See how stupid this is?

Also, isn't Kon-El 50% a clone of Superman and 50% a clone of Lex Luthor? DC Comics is going to try to tell us that thry've been feeding us Lex Luthor's genetic son as Superman the last five years? Or, oh, hey, wasn't one version of Kon-El the son of Lois and Clark from the future, who's name was... Jon? *Head thud*. If they try to tell is that Superman of the last five years was a grown up version of that annoying 10 year kld superhero kid, I am going to lose it.

Editorial would have to be actively trying to run the line into the ground or trying to flip a certain segment of their fan base the bird to try to pull something like that.

If they are determined to never bring the new52 Superman back, just say he was a fragment of Superman and merge his life and memories into SuperDad so that we get one unfiied version of Superman who remembers every adventure of every comic book with a Superman from 1986 to the present. At least that'd be something. Better than a Superman who doesn't remember any of the comics we've bought the last five years.

[Last Son of Krypton]

And who is new52 Lois Lane supposed be? A clone too? C'mon.

[The Shredder]

As a new-52 Superman fan who's upset that they are killing him off and replacing him with SuperDad, I'm not sure how saying new-52 Superman was Kon-El all along would be throwing me a bone. It'd be more like flipping me the bird.

Throwing a bone in the sense that Nuperman's stint still actually transpired within continuity rather than pulling a Bobby Ewing Dallas shower scene and having the entire stint be a dream, or retconned out existence. Maybe the latter is preferable to Nuperman fans. Maybe not. Having stuff *count* seems to be of some importance to a portion of fans, so there you go. I would imagine there were Superman fans in 1986 who wasn't pleased their Superman, Pre-Crisis Superman, was being put out to pasture in favor for Byrne's take, but those are the bricks.

To begin with, this Superman directly interacted with Kon-El in several of the crossover events. They were both in the same place at the same time.

Retconning the New52 version of Kon-El into being, quite frankly, anyone, wouldn't be a huge loss considering how that character was beyond mismanaged, and definitely nothing consistent. If you want a more accepted version of the character, you go with Pre-Flashpoint Kon-El. Who, by the way, even fans of Kon admit has similar qualities to Nuperman. Course it's just a theory. We'll find out down the road. I can't even pretend to know what you're talking about with pretzel guys being Jimmy Olsen, or Cat Grant being Streaky the Supercat.

I mean, I've reader several, SEVERAL theories on this forum from posters about how/why/when Nuperman will be revealed as THE Superman after DC realizes their fatal mistake by making Pre-Flashpoint Superman their main focus, and now the Nuperman/Kon-El theory is suddenly too much? Riiight.

Those of us who are fairly neutral to the notion of REBIRTH get some fans don't like the changes. We get it. WE GET IT! I've never liked everything DC has done either, and have completely walked away twice. Once during the Pre-Flashpoint era. It's easier to walk away completely if it's not your cup of tea rather than continually think about the changes, and be miserable.

[Sacred Knight]

And who is new52 Lois Lane supposed be? A clone too? C'mon.

She'd have to be a "construct" as well. Its just so ridiculous. Again the only way this remotely works for anyone with half a brain is if New 52 Superman is simply the pre-Flashpoint Superman, and Superdad and Lois, for whatever reasons, don't recall that they're not from the era they think they are. Or if it were all the domed cities and Telos inhabitants that were "fake". Because its the only option where there's actually wiggle room to fill in the blanks with potentially new info that changes what we know but also doesn't contradict what we've read. Because we never SEE the world that Brainiac Prime takes Gotham from. We SEE New 52 Superman born on this Krypton. We SEE him grow up on the post-Flashpoint world, we SEE him debut as Superman. You're really going to retcon all that? Pure madness. Yet with the Superdad dome situation, you can say it was actually another Earth that the city and Clark/Lois got taken from, or again make up some other idea entirely of what the domes were, and make up a reason for the couple to have forgotten and it at least leaves margin for suspension of disbelief. Because again we never witnessed it happen. Trying to make New 52 Superman and New 52 Lois oddities will just not work.

And yet with all that said if I were a betting man I'd STILL bet on them going with the unworkable of the two options.

[Last Son of Krypton]

She'd have to be a "construct" as well. Its just so ridiculous. Again the only way this remotely works for anyone with half a brain is if New 52 Superman is simply the pre-Flashpoint Superman, and Superdad and Lois, for whatever reasons, don't recall that they're not from the era they think they are. Or if it were all the domed cities and Telos inhabitants that were "fake". Because its the only option where there's actually wiggle room to fill in the blanks with potentially new info that changes what we know but also doesn't contradict what we've read. Because we never SEE the world that Brainiac Prime takes Gotham from. We SEE New 52 Superman born on this Krypton. We SEE him grow up on the post-Flashpoint world, we SEE him debut as Superman. You're really going to retcon all that? Pure madness. Yet with the Superdad dome situation, you can say it was actually another Earth that the city and Clark/Lois got taken from, or again make up some other idea entirely of what the domes were, and make up a reason for the couple to have forgotten and it at least leaves margin for suspension of disbelief. Because again we never witnessed it happen. Trying to make New 52 Superman and New 52 Lois oddities will just not work.

And yet with all that said if I were a betting man I'd STILL bet on them going with the unworkable of the two options.

What a mess. Post-Zero Hour/pre FP Hal Jordan must also be a "clone" because Hal/Parallax has been removed as well from the original timeline during Convergence.

[Sacred Knight]

How much it doesn't make any sense actually wants to give me more hope. But I don't really feel I can afford to at this juncture.

But if we're lucky: Mr. Oz says Superdad isn't who he thinks he is. Neither is New 52 Superman. New 52 Superman isn't who he thinks he is because he had more adventures than he remembered. He was the pre-FP Superman before the changes. In the same vein really none of the characters are who they think they are. Superdad is something else entirely. Kal-L. Earth One Kal-L. Something that was masked as "modern" and what he and his wife believe for some odd reason. Or something else entirely (I don't like this option, I'd rather both be Superman as its a disservice otherwise). Meanwhile Saturn Girl is all creepy-Gary-Frank-smiling because she knows he (New52/pre-FP Superman), is indeed coming back.

I'll file it in my "fool's hope" folder.

[Last Son of Krypton]

How much it doesn't make any sense actually wants to give me more hope. But I don't really feel I can afford to at this juncture.

But if we're lucky: Mr. Oz says Superdad isn't who he thinks he is. Neither is New 52 Superman. New 52 Superman isn't who he thinks he is because he had more adventures than he remembered. He was the pre-FP Superman before the changes. In the same vein really none of the characters are who they think they are. Superdad is something else entirely. Kal-L. Earth One Kal-L. Something that was masked as "modern" and what he and his wife believe for some odd reason. Or something else entirely (I don't like this option, I'd rather both be Superman as its a disservice otherwise). Meanwhile Saturn Girl is all creepy-Gary-Frank-smiling because she knows he (New52/pre-FP Superman), is indeed coming back.

I'll file it in my "fool's hope" folder.

Right now, I don't give much credit to Oz's words. DC and Johns often drop subplots or completely change their original intent going forward with the development of a story/mystery. Why should I be concerned about something that probably will end up being completely different in just one year?

[Sacred Knight]

Don't look now but Johns actually screwed up the New Gods more than he screwed up Superman. DC has no checks and balances right now. Its Johns' personal playground.

[Doctor Know]

Don't look now but Johns actually screwed up the New Gods more than he screwed up Superman. DC has no checks and balances right now. Its Johns' personal playground.

The same way Marvel is Bendis' oyster. Bendis and Jonhs have their fingers and damn near every pie at each respective company.

[adrikito]

BAD DECISION, 5 YEARS HERE AND NOW DEATH..

And who is new52 Lois Lane supposed be? A clone too? C'mon.

SUPERWOMAN with PHIL JIMENEZ.. GOOD.
SHE IS DYING.. BAD, THE SAME WITH SUPERMAN AGAIN

That I can expect from that series? See that series and know that his protagonist is doomed to die too? Buy the serie and lost the protagonist.. AGAIN? I find it a waste of money and have the same problem of now with superman death again.

THANKS DC AND PRE-FLASHPOINT

[NeonZ]

She'd have to be a "construct" as well. Its just so ridiculous. Again the only way this remotely works for anyone with half a brain is if New 52 Superman is simply the pre-Flashpoint Superman, and Superdad and Lois, for whatever reasons, don't recall that they're not from the era they think they are. Or if it were all the domed cities and Telos inhabitants that were "fake". Because its the only option where there's actually wiggle room to fill in the blanks with potentially new info that changes what we know but also doesn't contradict what we've read. Because we never SEE the world that Brainiac Prime takes Gotham from. We SEE New 52 Superman born on this Krypton. We SEE him grow up on the post-Flashpoint world, we SEE him debut as Superman. You're really going to retcon all that? Pure madness. Yet with the Superdad dome situation, you can say it was actually another Earth that the city and Clark/Lois got taken from, or again make up some other idea entirely of what the domes were, and make up a reason for the couple to have forgotten and it at least leaves margin for suspension of disbelief. Because again we never witnessed it happen. Trying to make New 52 Superman and New 52 Lois oddities will just not work.

We do see Gotham right before it's domed in the Convergence: Speedforce (Wally's mini) book, with even what seems like the flashpoint wave about to cover everything.

[stephens2177]

NO NO and NO.
Nuperman is superman,plain as that.he has the history,he is superman.

Superdad is pre flashpoint annomaly,so is lois.

Both are pieces of a bigger pie.pre crisis suprman was supposedly changed into superdad back in the day,they are all parts of 1 superman,and to be complete they need each other.lois is his soul mate so her soul follows his soul duh,and his has been changing many times now,so she will 2.

Nu kon is "A" kon,but not the only kon,and IMO not the one we will be reading about soon enough.no that kon will be a clone created at cadmus by lex,with lexs dna to complete what they couldnt figure out about supermans dna to replace superman.that is kon,not all this timey wimey alternate universe crap,thats how you completely confuse and complicate things unneedlessly.KISS-keepnit simple stupid....atleast as much as humanly possible with what you have to work with.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well, if this happened it would really be the lamest thing DC has ever done. And since the rebirth thing is already full of weird (to say the least) regarding Superman, well...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think it's far more likely that he is Kal-L, since Morrison's intention was to harken back to the original Superman

[L.R Johansson]

I think it's far more likely that he is Kal-L, since Morrison's intention was to harken back to the original Superman

I'm not sure how that makes any sense... Geoff Johns killed Kal-L and his Lois years ago. And when he did, he was old - and that wouldn't explain why New-52 turned into dust. I swear... they might be going with the crazy idea that New-52 is... I don't know... POST-Crisis QUARMER!! 0_o

That would be one h*lluva' slap in the face...