DC Universe Rebirth #1 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Lee Stone]

so overcome with emotion towards the end. holy cow, this really was like coming home!!! REBIRTH

I agree.
It was an excellent comic.
Well worth the hype.

[Inhuman X]

I liked it. Quite a lot. The meta-commentaries were, IMHO, great. (And there were many, besides the obvious.) Loved seeing so many favorites back (DR. Fate, Ryan Choi AND Ray Palmer, Ted Kord...). Hope this fixes quite a few of the flaws of the New 52. I had pratically given up reading new comics (sticking with TPBs reprints). Now, I might definitly check out some (as I did with the New 52, before I got tired of it).
One thing is bugging me though. I thought the new 52 Captain Atom wasn't around anymore. So why is he in two panels of the death of Superman chapter? And looking a lot more like his pre-Flashpoint self? Could the New 52 Captain Atom actually have been Dr. Manhattan, maybe spying on his creation? Does it mean something that the "real" Cap seems to be back, or is he simply another fabrication? Was it simply an art mistake?

Peace

If I am honest the whole Choi / Palmer scene made me cringe a little. I still hate the collage dean.

The Captain Atom scene was something I didn't consider. I have always considered him to be a character with potential given the right treatment and story. It would be nice to see them do something with him here. I wonder if it could boil down to the Charlton heroes vs the Watchmen?

One thing that I have been considering is that comic books about superheroes have always been the poster children for the idea of conflict resolution and ideals played out through force of arms. In the current situation, who could stand against Doctor Manhattan with even a chance of winning?

[Lee Stone]

I think the DC higher ups have wanted the Watchmen in the prime DC Universe for a while and considering I can't blame them for that. I also can't blame Alan Moore if he is spitting nails. I am hoping for some cool things though, like Batman fighting the Comedian all across Gotham and maybe even Deathstroke having it out with Ozymandius. Both offer some interesting story possibilities and that's just for starters.

I am thinking there is some story meta plot in Pandora's death about the 52 and the new Rebirth. I am afraid of commenting more there until I see what plays out in the pages of the comics.

Like a poster above mentioned, Wally went to the great detective first and from a professional hero stand point that makes sense to me rather than just following his heart.

It reminded me of the scene during Crisis when Barry went to Bruce while he was fighting Joker.

[L.R Johansson]

Well.

I am of mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand, Johns wrote it fairly well, and he seems to be sincere about bringing back a lot of the things fans have been missing.

On the other hand... the treatment of Superman still casts a shadow over it all, and the use of the Watchmen-characters are... problematic, to say the least. He really should have left them alone, instead of making them, essentially, the villains. Or so it would seem, I suppose.

The meta-textual commentary is also a double-edged sword, in a way I COMMEND it! I have dreams of doing similar if I ever got a job working at DC Comics - I would have used analogues though, out of respect for Moore , the work and the fans.
Then there's the fact that it's JOHNS who's doing it! To me, that is incredibly hypocritical, considering how unbelievably DARK some of his DC-work have been - heck, he killed a whole bunch of characters in gruesome ways just this week!

If one holds Johns work up, and compare it to his likes - Bendis, Hickman, Waid, Fraction - I actually feel he's the DARKEST OF THEM ALL...! He uses the most gore, he kills the most characters, he has the most controversial scenes.

So who, pray tell, is *HE* to comment on the darkness of superhero-comics, that Watchmen began?


That, my friends, is hypocrisy, and I do not abide hypocrisy.

[L.R Johansson]

In the current situation, who could stand against Doctor Manhattan with even a chance of winning?

The only one who can defeat the Man of the Atom, is the Man of Tomorrow.



I doubt Johns, and the writers he'll collaborate with, will go to that well though.

[Lee Stone]

More interesting details...

Page 4 - the three Jokers are clearly Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis and New52 versions.
Page 11 - Barry still "died" in Crisis (in truth he was trapped in the Speed Force)
Page 12 - Wally still became the Flash and eventually teamed up with Barry and Jay
Page 28 - there's a cardboard box next to Pandora... and a trash can... I couldn't help but think of Pandora's Box and Can of Worms with her final image.
Page 29 - Part of me suspects Jason is Jason Blood, especially considering Demon being on the poster spread.

[Bruce Wayne]

The last one doesn't really make sense unless WW was born centuries again. But both Nu52/post-Crisis maintain she was born in the 20th century.

Rather Jason suggests a namesake relating to the mythological Jason of the Argonauts (and the Golden Fleece).

[RobinFan4880]

Well.

I am of mixed feelings on this.

On the one hand, Johns wrote it fairly well, and he seems to be sincere about bringing back a lot of the things fans have been missing.

On the other hand... the treatment of Superman still casts a shadow over it all, and the use of the Watchmen-characters are... problematic, to say the least. He really should have left them alone, instead of making them, essentially, the villains. Or so it would seem, I suppose.

The meta-textual commentary is also a double-edged sword, in a way I COMMEND it! I have dreams of doing similar if I ever got a job working at DC Comics - I would have used analogues though, out of respect for Moore , the work and the fans.
Then there's the fact that it's JOHNS who's doing it! To me, that is incredibly hypocritical, considering how unbelievably DARK some of his DC-work have been - heck, he killed a whole bunch of characters in gruesome ways just this week!

If one holds Johns work up, and compare it to his likes - Bendis, Hickman, Waid, Fraction - I actually feel he's the DARKEST OF THEM ALL...! He uses the most gore, he kills the most characters, he has the most controversial scenes.

So who, pray tell, is *HE* to comment on the darkness of superhero-comics, that Watchmen began?


That, my friends, is hypocrisy, and I do not abide hypocrisy.

You can't be critical of the work and direction of the industry as a whole because you followed trends within the industry? That's just silly.

[Mundungus]

Well, this was a bit of a chore.

The art was great and there were some clever bits. And I'm sure individual titles will be great. But as far as this issue and its execution it just felt like a lot of pandering and making things needlessly complex. I mean, both Marvel and DC are needlessly complex and have high barriers of entry. As far as the DC Universe is concerned, this just made the barrier that much higher. It's "entertaining" for people like me that are so heavily invested in the universe and all its myriad plots but this book does the casual fans no favors.

[MadFacedKid]

I'm not disappointed but I was expecting it to be more of a DC story about the entire Universe. It came off as a Wally West story which isn't bad just not what I picked it up for.

[Lee Stone]

Well, this was a bit of a chore.

The art was great and there were some clever bits. And I'm sure individual titles will be great. But as far as this issue and its execution it just felt like a lot of pandering and making things needlessly complex. I mean, both Marvel and DC are needlessly complex and have high barriers of entry. As far as the DC Universe is concerned, this just made the barrier that much higher. It's "entertaining" for people like me that are so heavily invested in the universe and all its myriad plots but this book does the casual fans no favors.

I think the exposition was handled very well.
If people choose to read a DC or Marvel comic, it's that complexity that they're drawn to. They don't necessarily want a 'fresh and new' universe so much as a guiding hand to help them integrate.

[Lee Stone]

You can't be critical of the work and direction of the industry as a whole because you followed trends within the industry? That's just silly.

I agree.
When I worked at a payday loan office as a manager, I came to disagree with the company's ethics (or lack thereof) the longer I was there.
But I still had to meet quotas or lose my apartment.

Still didn't stop me from doing the right thing at times and talk someone out of getting a loan that I knew would devastate them.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Ok, let me eat crow:

I've said in these boards, many, many times, that I nevr wanted Geoff Johns to write Wally again.

I apologize for that.

[GlennSimpson]

More interesting details...

Page 4 - the three Jokers are clearly Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis and New52 versions.
Page 11 - Barry still "died" in Crisis (in truth he was trapped in the Speed Force)
Page 12 - Wally still became the Flash and eventually teamed up with Barry and Jay
Page 28 - there's a cardboard box next to Pandora... and a trash can... I couldn't help but think of Pandora's Box and Can of Worms with her final image.
Page 29 - Part of me suspects Jason is Jason Blood, especially considering Demon being on the poster spread.

Regarding Page 11-12 - Just to be clear, Wally was talking about the pre-Flashpoint continuity. That doesn't mean there was a Crisis in the revised new52 history. Doesn't mean there wasn't, but I think it's important to note that most of the time Wally was remembering things pre-Flashpoint.

In the new52 version, Wally was a member of the Teen Titans until whatever the thing is with Mr. Twister happened (haven't read that last issue yet) and then Wally, as Kid Flash, disappeared into the Speed Force. While there, he regained his memory of things that were no longer really an official part of his history.

All in all, this was a good start, but it hasn't actually put any of that lost history BACK IN yet - it's just telling us that it is gone.

[big_boss]

Enjoyed it but man, that Wally and Barry scene was one of the best written parts of a comic I've read in a really long time. I'm not that invested in Wally but man.... that was just incredible and everything I hope for and love in comics. Bravo.