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  1. #76
    Mighty Member WhipWhirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Ok, let me eat crow:

    I've said in these boards, many, many times, that I nevr wanted Geoff Johns to write Wally again.

    I apologize for that.
    I wasn't a doubter, but was definitely surprised by how much warmth there was for the character. Great job by Johns.

  2. #77
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinFan4880 View Post
    You can't be critical of the work and direction of the industry as a whole because you followed trends within the industry? That's just silly.
    No. Because if you're going to critique something you have to have credibility.

    For instance:

    Man: "This seasons super-long scarves are stupid! They trip everyone up!"
    Girl: "Um... but why do you own two, then..?"
    Man: "Because you're supposed to..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I agree.
    When I worked at a payday loan office as a manager, I came to disagree with the company's ethics (or lack thereof) the longer I was there.
    But I still had to meet quotas or lose my apartment.

    Still didn't stop me from doing the right thing at times and talk someone out of getting a loan that I knew would devastate them.
    This isn't the same thing.

    As far as I can tell, no one has ever forced Geoff Johns to do dark stuff in his comics - I can't see that his livelihood depended on him writing dark and controversial comics.
    Mainly because there have been any number of comics published, at DC and other publishers, that did fairly well, without resorting to the same methods, published alongside his comics.

    And even if it was the case in the past, I have a hard time seeing Geoff Johns being told what to do by editorial, in the last 3-4 years or so - he's had more or less creative freedom.
    For him to write this when he's killed off several characters in gruesome ways in just the last few weeks, even though he's had the amount of control he's had, makes it, to me, look insincere.

  3. #78
    All-New Member tentonarat's Avatar
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    New member here. Not sure if anyone else here has talked about it, but the variant cover is friggin' awesome.s-l500.jpg
    On the comic itself, I quite enjoyed it. the only question I have is, why did Batman initially think Wally was Barry?

  4. #79
    All-New Member Joe-el's Avatar
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    Free digital copy via Grant Gustin on Twitter:
    https://t.co/lriOR2XTwr

    For the first 2500...

  5. #80
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    why do you think they didn't actually show Dr. Manhattan?

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe-el View Post
    Free digital copy via Grant Gustin on Twitter:
    https://t.co/lriOR2XTwr

    For the first 2500...
    I was just about to post this. The official DC Films Facebook page is doing the same thing.

  7. #82
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    Just wanted to pop in to say, didn't notice anything anybody else didn't notice in the issue (well, I get the sense that it was temporal hijinx in the Batcave that warped around that Thomas Wayne Letter that led to the Comedian's pin being lodged in a stone wall somehow, and those two Supermans are totally just the same Superman, somehow anomalous because of Brainiac's Convergence tinkering, but hey) ... but I liked this issue a whole lot. And maybe it's just because of last night's Flash episode but I got a little weepy eyed when Wally finally connected with Barry.

    Good job, Johns.
    Retro315 no more. Anonymity is so 2005.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    Well.

    I am of mixed feelings on this.

    On the one hand, Johns wrote it fairly well, and he seems to be sincere about bringing back a lot of the things fans have been missing.

    On the other hand... the treatment of Superman still casts a shadow over it all, and the use of the Watchmen-characters are... problematic, to say the least. He really should have left them alone, instead of making them, essentially, the villains. Or so it would seem, I suppose.

    The meta-textual commentary is also a double-edged sword, in a way I COMMEND it! I have dreams of doing similar if I ever got a job working at DC Comics - I would have used analogues though, out of respect for Moore , the work and the fans.
    Then there's the fact that it's JOHNS who's doing it! To me, that is incredibly hypocritical, considering how unbelievably DARK some of his DC-work have been - heck, he killed a whole bunch of characters in gruesome ways just this week!

    If one holds Johns work up, and compare it to his likes - Bendis, Hickman, Waid, Fraction - I actually feel he's the DARKEST OF THEM ALL...! He uses the most gore, he kills the most characters, he has the most controversial scenes.

    So who, pray tell, is *HE* to comment on the darkness of superhero-comics, that Watchmen began?


    That, my friends, is hypocrisy, and I do not abide hypocrisy.
    Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be the one criticizing what comics have become if he were a part of it. If he was the only person doing bright and hopeful comics, and then he comes now criticizing everyone else's work that was dark and gritty, it would seem like he is being dismissive and insulting to other writers works. It all can be seen as John himself is saying his work was inspired/influenced by Watchmen to be dark, and now it is going to change(whether gradually or not). I also personally don't think he is criticizing/dismissing dark and gritty works, I think he is more saying it has just been going on too long or too much at this point and it needs to be changed or at least balanced out.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    No. Because if you're going to critique something you have to have credibility.

    For instance:

    Man: "This seasons super-long scarves are stupid! They trip everyone up!"
    Girl: "Um... but why do you own two, then..?"
    Man: "Because you're supposed to..."



    This isn't the same thing.

    As far as I can tell, no one has ever forced Geoff Johns to do dark stuff in his comics - I can't see that his livelihood depended on him writing dark and controversial comics.
    Mainly because there have been any number of comics published, at DC and other publishers, that did fairly well, without resorting to the same methods, published alongside his comics.

    And even if it was the case in the past, I have a hard time seeing Geoff Johns being told what to do by editorial, in the last 3-4 years or so - he's had more or less creative freedom.
    For him to write this when he's killed off several characters in gruesome ways in just the last few weeks, even though he's had the amount of control he's had, makes it, to me, look insincere.
    Well.. the coincidence of all the decapitations, amputations, ultraviolence in graphic detail, etc. in the first few months of the New52 certainly felt like everyone was trying to impress 'the master'.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  10. #85
    Spectacular Member BeefBourguignon's Avatar
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    I am not even a big Flash fan though old Wally is the one I am most familiar and attached to, and I have to say I teared up during him and Linda scene, during him and Barry scene, and jumped in my seat with joy when Barry pulled Wally out of the speedforce. I was spoiled and new Wally was supposedly back for good and I still was in suspense that he wasn't going to survive. It was that well written and drawn. Kudos to Rebirth!

  11. #86

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    Just finished Rebirth, and it was pretty great all around.

    I still can't believe Wally is back -- I really never expected that, but I'm glad.

    The Rebirth'd DCU really seems like they want to embrace legacy and family -- and are really expanding on the family-brands -- The Superman family, the Flash Family, the Shazam family -- all much larger than they were.

    Legacy is embraced further with the likes of Ted & Jaime and Ray & Ryan -- which I'm interested in seeing more of. As terrible as Cry for Justice was, one idea that I thought was great, was pairing the two Atoms together. That may not be what we'll get down the road, but I always figured it would be lonely at the atomic level, so it would be better to bring a friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post
    Just wanted to pop in to say, didn't notice anything anybody else didn't notice in the issue (well, I get the sense that it was temporal hijinx in the Batcave that warped around that Thomas Wayne Letter that led to the Comedian's pin being lodged in a stone wall somehow, and those two Supermans are totally just the same Superman, somehow anomalous because of Brainiac's Convergence tinkering, but hey) ... but I liked this issue a whole lot. And maybe it's just because of last night's Flash episode but I got a little weepy eyed when Wally finally connected with Barry.

    Good job, Johns.
    Heh, it would be great is the Comedian button was in the cave wall, just behind the letter from Thomas Wayne... because Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Or maybe "great" is the wrong word, here...

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by tentonarat View Post

    On the comic itself, I quite enjoyed it. the only question I have is, why did Batman initially think Wally was Barry?
    Because no one knows[remembers] who Wally is, he just saw someone running at Flash speed in a Flash costume, and his initial reaction was "Barry?".

    edit:typos
    Last edited by SSJMorales; 05-25-2016 at 11:24 AM.

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennSimpson View Post
    Regarding Page 11-12 - Just to be clear, Wally was talking about the pre-Flashpoint continuity. That doesn't mean there was a Crisis in the revised new52 history. Doesn't mean there wasn't, but I think it's important to note that most of the time Wally was remembering things pre-Flashpoint.

    In the new52 version, Wally was a member of the Teen Titans until whatever the thing is with Mr. Twister happened (haven't read that last issue yet) and then Wally, as Kid Flash, disappeared into the Speed Force. While there, he regained his memory of things that were no longer really an official part of his history.

    All in all, this was a good start, but it hasn't actually put any of that lost history BACK IN yet - it's just telling us that it is gone.
    Exactly...
    But it still happened. It's basically showing that the walls are still the same but someone put wallpaper over it all and no one remembers what color the walls were before.
    In Dr. Manhatten's case, he even went so far as swapping the kitchen and the living room.
    Once you're in the house long enough, if you don't have documentation (photographs, video) you'll begin to forget how it looked before.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  14. #89
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    I still can't get over the whole "Next Neil Degrasse Tyson"

    I have respect for NDT, but he is not a top tier scientist, he is more of a scientific outreach guy like Bill Nye and Carl Sagan

    Ray Palmer is like DC's greatest scientist..... he has an intellectual mind on the level of guys like Hank Pym and Reed Richards, just seems like an odd comparison

    saying he is the "next Einstein or next Newton" would of made more sense

  15. #90
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSJMorales View Post
    Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be the one criticizing what comics have become if he were a part of it. If he was the only person doing bright and hopeful comics, and then he comes now criticizing everyone else's work that was dark and gritty, it would seem like he is being dismissive and insulting to other writers works. It all can be seen as John himself is saying his work was inspired/influenced by Watchmen to be dark, and now it is going to change(whether gradually or not). I also personally don't think he is criticizing/dismissing dark and gritty works, I think he is more saying it has just been going on too long or too much at this point and it needs to be changed or at least balanced out.
    Hmm, possibly. It still doesn't quite rime in the right way for me, but I suppose that could be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Well.. the coincidence of all the decapitations, amputations, ultraviolence in graphic detail, etc. in the first few months of the New52 certainly felt like everyone was trying to impress 'the master'.
    You know, the marked is interesting - I don't think I've ever seen a big 2 mainstream writer chop off as many limbs as I have seen Johns do. It's almost a hall-mark of his... that at the climax of one of his bigger storylines, someone will lose an arm or two.

    I would agree that the start of the new-52 had quite a bit of that gore and darkness -I certainly hope that those were just those writers natural inclinations though, otherwise that definitely strikes me as a very cynical way of writing.

    Who were those guys again though...? Harras and... THE LOBDELL?

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