"DC Universe: Rebirth" #1 Contains a Surprising and Likely Controversial Crossover

[Darth Kal-el]

I liked the issue. In the end all that matters is DC owns the characters and that we get good stories. People are making too big a deal, you will always have the original watchmen. Plus if Superman can somehow inspire Dr Manhattan all the cooler

[Nite-Wing]

I don't think it was a scathing commentary on Watchmen, the work. I think it was a commentary on the way the comic industry in general, and recent DC in specific, reacted to that work. I think he was referencing how influential Watchmen was and is, without blaming it for the reaction it caused.

Dr Manhattan and co are apparently the dark blackness that has always been effecting the DCU and destroying legacies keeping the DCU characters from being great. That's more or less what is said in the story
Seems like a scathing commentary.
Some DC characters haven't been great because of incompetence or general bad decision making for the past 30+ years on the part of creators. Nope its actually all down to a comic book that was until now never even connected to the DCU.

[Blackest Knight]

I liked the issue. In the end all that matters is DC owns the characters and that we get good stories. People are making too big a deal, you will always have the original watchmen. Plus if Superman can somehow inspire Dr Manhattan all the cooler

I agree 110%.

Even during the New 52 when hardcore fans were bitching and complaining about what was done to the Titans, I just rolled my eyes. Those classic Titans tales have always been there and always will be there. Life is cyclical and now we're in what I consider to be a better cycle for most (not all) fans.

The one constant is change. I'm going to roll with it and hope everyone else does the same. Right now, IMHO, it's a great time to be a DC fan.

And I cannot wait to find out who the writers and artists are going to be on the eventual JSA and LSH books later this year.

[Arnoldoaad]

One glorious fuck called MIB 23.

I google it and That is just awesome

Moore said it best about DC's "completely shameless" moneygrubbing move:

What the comics industry has effectively said is, 'Yes, this was the only book that made us briefly special and that was because it wasn't like all the other books.' Watchmen was something that stood on its own and it had the integrity of a literary work. What they've decided now is, 'So, let's change it to a regular comic that can run indefinitely and have spin-offs.' and 'Let's make it as unexceptional as possible.' Like I say, they're doing this because they haven't got any other choices left, evidently.

I actually dont think that BW made Watchmen less exception or unique just like I dont think that any of the different books that he touched on League of Extraordinary Gentlemen are less because of it or because of all the other different versions that are around, the same could be applied for practically anything, fables and the original fairy tales is another example.

even Moore´s own work in the actual comic ongoings, he might have not created Swamp Thing and/or Miracle but that doesnt make them unique and/or exceptional.
just because Snyder or Morrison didnt created Batman doesnt mean that their runs on the character are less than what they could be if they feature original characters, the same for Johns and Green Lantern and the list goes on.

the point is more about the character and author´s rights than anything else.
yes, DC screwed Moore for the rights of the Watchmen, anyone knows that.
But John´s didnt do that, neither does Didio or anyone on DC right now, they are just using what they have to

Wow... Just wow. I am almost lost for words.

After the (critical) failure of Before Watchmen I can't believe... I mean, is this just Johns' unbelievable ego (remember, this is a guy who thought he could add to Kingdom Come)... Just...

being fair, he wasnt the first one to use kingdom come on the DCU before

Ironically, I was really enjoying the issue until then. Even if Johns was just riffing on (see reusing) Morisson's (Countdown to) Final Crisis #0. Wally was amazing and Barry remembering just as he was completely gone made me shout for joy... But... God, that ending was so fucking stupid.

Isn't Wally's return here IDENTICAL to Barry's moment in Morrison's Final Crisis #0? Like verbatim?

I have to read it again I dont think it is that similar to FC
being fair is not like the scenario does present very similar situation

Say....real-world comic company/writer controversies aside, in-story, in-universe wise...

...has Dr. Manhattan ever been *that* powerful? Classic Wally West has him pegged as more powerful than *Darkseid.* I've never thought of Dr. Manhattan as being quite in that class, power-wise.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think it was implied that he was that powerful

Also did anyone notice that Captain Atom is not siver and red and no longer Dr Manhattan lite

[Atlanta96]

I wasn't really impressed by how Dr Manhattan was written by Johns, but we still don't know what series the characters will be appearing in next, (except Tom Kings Batman, that's almost a given) or who will be writing him. I wouldn't use the Rebirth special to judge how well the Watchmen characters will be handled. They could be great, or terrible.

Also, I agree that the Watchmen characters shouldn't have been touched on again after the series wrapped up. But that story is so popular that it would never happen. Abandoning DC over this decision seems kind of unfair to me, since no company or industry would have the integrity to leave those characters alone. Watchmen in the DCU was inevitable, so let's hope it's handled well and not get angry over their presence.

[Ragdoll]

Just read Rebirth, after managing to avoid spoilers succesfully. Doc Manhattan is the perfect thing to make me care about DC again. Geoff Johns accomplished his mission here.

[Myskin]

the point is more about the character and author´s rights than anything else.
yes, DC screwed Moore for the rights of the Watchmen, anyone knows that.

Yes, but that's not the problem. The fact that Johns is using Dr Manhattan in a mainstream superhero story is incredibly, shamelessly, openly disrespectful towards Moore and the original Watchmen, but that's not the main point. The main point is that Johns is not presenting this story as a simple superhero adventure, but as a meta-commentary about the state of DC, a cynicism vs optimism thing, and so on. That is, something which aspires to be something more than pure entertainment, and which includes even a heavy dose of self-criticism. And if a writer has the ambition to do something like that, well, he/she should be honest enough to present the situation in an authentic way. But that's not what Johns is doing. He is doing something which is intellectually dishonest, because he criticizes some low points in the recent history of DCU, but refuses to acknowledge any responsibility (on his, or DC's part) for them.

[Blackest Knight]

I wasn't really impressed by how Dr Manhattan was written by Johns, but...

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but Johns absolutely did not write Doctor Manhattan.

It is *implied* very heavily that it is Doctor Manhattan that is doing all these things. But not one panel, not one line featured Manhattan. It is implied that he's there, yes. But Johns and his artists did not depict him nor give him even one word of dialogue.

Fair is fair. Until we actually see Doctor Manhattan as written by Johns? Then we have no idea how he's going to write him or how he will be depicted. We are all guessing based on being led to obvious assumptions. But so far? There has been no depiction; only implication--and those 2 things are not one and the same.

[Myskin]

Abandoning DC over this decision seems kind of unfair to me, since no company or industry would have the integrity to leave those characters alone. Watchmen in the DCU was inevitable

Sorry, but that's not true. Watchmen was left alone for something like 25 years. And this happened because Paul Levitz - whose relationship with Moore is, as far as I know, quite problematic - had made a solemn promise that under his management, no Watchmen sequel or prequel would be published. And he kept his word. DC wasn't forced to do this. They decided to do it.

[AdamFTF]

Man, Alan Moore is going to be mad. I mean, so, SO mad. I can just see his big, beardy face contorting in anger.

What might make this work better is if Johns were doing what Moore initially did and create pastiche characters. Moore made pastiches of the Charlton and Red Circle heroes (Hooded Justice=The Hangman) for Watchmen. Johns could create pastiches of the Watchmen characters. I doubt it will happen, though.

[Myskin]

Man, Alan Moore is going to be mad. I mean, so, SO mad. I can just see his big, beardy face contorting in anger.

What might make this work better is if Johns were doing what Moore initially did and create pastiche characters. Moore made pastiches of the Charlton and Red Circle heroes (Hooded Justice=The Hangman) for Watchmen. Johns could create pastiches of the Watchmen characters. I doubt it will happen, though.

I agree. As I said some days ago, there have been tons of stories based on metacommentaries about Watchmen, and all of those pastiche character would have served the situation better.

[Moriarty]

this was really good. surprisingly good. i've been grumpy with DC since the whole New 52 thing so for me this was a giant step in the right direction.

[Atlanta96]

Forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but Johns absolutely did not write Doctor Manhattan.

It is *implied* very heavily that it is Doctor Manhattan that is doing all these things. But not one panel, not one line featured Manhattan. It is implied that he's there, yes. But Johns and his artists did not depict him nor give him even one word of dialogue.

Fair is fair. Until we actually see Doctor Manhattan as written by Johns? Then we have no idea how he's going to write him or how he will be depicted. We are all guessing based on being led to obvious assumptions. But so far? There has been no depiction; only implication--and those 2 things are not one and the same.

So it's another powerful, melodramatic character who hangs out on Mars, vaporizes people with blue energy, and is obsessed with broken watches.

[Atlanta96]

Sorry, but that's not true. Watchmen was left alone for something like 25 years. And this happened because Paul Levitz - whose relationship with Moore is, as far as I know, quite problematic - had made a solemn promise that under his management, no Watchmen sequel or prequel would be published. And he kept his word. DC wasn't forced to do this. They decided to do it.

That was then, this is now. No company or industry TODAY would be decent enough to leave Watchmen alone. And while I agree with Alan Moore that the characters shouldn't have been touched on again, he's the last person to be complaining about exploiting other people's creations. Lost Girls, nuff said. Moore is a genius, but he's a crazy genius with no self awareness.

[Dataweaver]

I agree. As I said some days ago, there have been tons of stories based on metacommentaries about Watchmen, and all of those pastiche character would have served the situation better.

Eh. Pastiches would not have had anywhere near the impact this has had.