"DC Universe: Rebirth" #1 Contains a Surprising and Likely Controversial Crossover

[exile001]

Wow... Just wow. I am almost lost for words.

After the (critical) failure of Before Watchmen I can't believe... I mean, is this just Johns' unbelievable ego (remember, this is a guy who thought he could add to Kingdom Come)... Just...

Honestly, this is one of the stupidest, poorly conceived, arrogant things I've ever witnessed.

Ironically, I was really enjoying the issue until then. Even if Johns was just riffing on (see reusing) Morisson's (Countdown to) Final Crisis #0. Wally was amazing and Barry remembering just as he was completely gone made me shout for joy... But... God, that ending was so fucking stupid.

[Ralso]

It felt like even Geoff Johns was embarrassed writing this. There was just so much backpedaling and apologizing it was hard to read. I swear that one bit about the darkness infecting them to weaken the heroes and destroy the legacies felt like a direct dig at Didio even. The Watchmen stuff slapped in there was soooo forced and cringey.

Best part: all the changes brought about by Flashpoint were actually a secret evil plot to weaken the heroes! but wait...that's EXACTLY what they said about the pre-Flashpoint multiverse in order to justify the new 52!

Well thanks DC. This seems like a perfect jumping off point. Now I can have more time and money for other books.

[Flash Gordon]

Isn't Wally's return here IDENTICAL to Barry's moment in Morrison's Final Crisis #0? Like verbatim?

This is an embarrassing book, if I'm being honest. For a "rebirth", it is just a giant navel gazing catastrophe.

[WhipWhirlwind]

I was kind of torn reading it.

On a plus side, I thought the overall arc felt pretty.... epic. Someone running through time, realizing what had been taken from people and struggling to find their way back into the world. Also the reveal at the end was powerful, but a lot of that had to do with the way it referenced another, greater, work. As I saw the panal layout, mars and the watch being taken apart and here the 'nothing ever ends, Adrian', I got a real thrill, but realized it was purely because of Moore - not because of this new version of Dr Manhattan.

Ultimately, I don't mind the idea of a company using old characters in different ways. Alan Moore himself reimagined stuff all the time to fit stories so... I get it. I guess what matters is how it plays out. If Dr Manhattan is judging cynicism vs idealism and ends up being convinced that the latter has a place? Then... sure. Good story. The sheer heroism of DC and their goodness convinces a distant god the world is worth saving. If they all team up and.... punch him... then no. Awful story.

Yeah this could be neat. The idea of Superman making that case to someone as distant as dr. manhattan could be cool.

[exile001]

Just to add, for those who were reading pre-New 52, remember how well introducing Sandman characters to the main DCU went? Remember the huge "This just happened" ad for Action Comics that ran in every issue, where "Gaiman"'s Death visited Lex Luthor? Remember how that added to the Sandman mythos and the DCU at large is a meaningful way? No, me neither. It was a dumb idea. As it this.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Really, I'm just indescribably sick and tired of DC's bafflingly anti-intellectual notion of what intellectualism is.

[Buried Alien]

Say....real-world comic company/writer controversies aside, in-story, in-universe wise...

...has Dr. Manhattan ever been *that* powerful? Classic Wally West has him pegged as more powerful than *Darkseid.* I've never thought of Dr. Manhattan as being quite in that class, power-wise.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Drizzt]

If it has some meta-message as daft as "Watchmen led to comics sucking because people adopted grim and gritty" then I'll probably be annoyed. But I hope Johns wouldn't be so simple.

Waid pretty much did that a long time ago with Kingdom Come... which DC then pillaged for bad stories for a decade.

[The Drizzt]

One glorious **** called MIB 23.

Without Will Smith or TLJ, incidentally. I'm sure it will be at least as successful as the Ghostbusterettes, since it seems like an equally good (or not) idea.

Honestly, the thing that terrifies me most is that they're likely to overhaul the MiB ride at Universal Orlando with Jonah Hill's stupidity.

[The Drizzt]

How does a Watchmen sequel, or further use of the Watchmen characters, "ruin" Watchmen for you? The original still exists.

Take a Highlander / The Matrix / Alien(s) approach to it: ignore the parts you don't like.

[Buried Alien]

As for Watchmen potentially being in the DCU now. Weather that turns out to be a good or bad thing depends on how they use them.

I doubt that beyond this one-time use for this story, we'll see much of the Watchmen interacting with the regular DCU. I'm not expecting Rorscharch, the Comedian, Silk Spectre, etc., to begin making monthly or even annual appearances in the DCU. I believe that it's going to be this decade's analogue to JLA/AVENGERS: a once-in-a-lifetime thing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Coal Tiger]

Say....real-world comic company/writer controversies aside, in-story, in-universe wise...

...has Dr. Manhattan ever been *that* powerful? Classic Wally West has him pegged as more powerful than *Darkseid.* I've never thought of Dr. Manhattan as being quite in that class, power-wise.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I got the sense that he could do *anything* he wanted, but didn't really want to do that much. Tachyons at some point in the future kept him from seeing it, but he was willing to just let things play out.

[Daniel22]

How is that possible
All the post rebirth books are going to be written by the same people more or less continuing the same stories they were before rebirth.
Its why the scathing meta commentary of Watchmen for ushering in a new era has been so ridiculous in rebirth.
If Johns was looking at the history objectively we wouldn't have dr manhattan as this god like figure playing with all the other DC characters.

Alan Moore has written many other DC properties too seems kinda odd to single that one book out.
Is DC going to get meta about Frank Miller? Since he hasn't exactly written anything of worth for DC but DKR which has just as much influence as Watchmen

Too think DC would publish this but then a few years ago go to the well once more with Before Watchmen.

I don't think it was a scathing commentary on Watchmen, the work. I think it was a commentary on the way the comic industry in general, and recent DC in specific, reacted to that work. I think he was referencing how influential Watchmen was and is, without blaming it for the reaction it caused.

[WhipWhirlwind]

Really, I'm just indescribably sick and tired of DC's bafflingly anti-intellectual notion of what intellectualism is.

Where do you get that from this comic?

[Lee Stone]

Say....real-world comic company/writer controversies aside, in-story, in-universe wise...

...has Dr. Manhattan ever been *that* powerful? Classic Wally West has him pegged as more powerful than *Darkseid.* I've never thought of Dr. Manhattan as being quite in that class, power-wise.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think it's a natural progression for him...
The more powerful he became, the more disconnected with his humanity he would become.
I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a Lord of Chaos or Lord of Order at the end, shedding what little is left of his humanity.