Captain America: Steve Rogers Big Revelation (SPOILERS)

[Raye]

I know a lot of people have been extremely mad about this, but does anyone really expect it to be permanent and not some form of fuckery that will get undone? I mean, really? I'm kinda intrigued to see what's up, personally.

And no, just because it's going to be undopne in the end does not make it 'pointless'. He could still learn something about himself, it reveals how much of who he is is due to his upbringing at a young age, shows how even a good person can turn out bad under the right (wrong?) circumstances. I mean, just look at the suicide bomber in the beginning, obvious parallels there. He wasn't a bad guy so much, just came from bad circumstances that led him down a terrible path. I guess if Captain America just being inherently a good person is important to you i could see it being upsetting, but personally, I don't buy into the notion that people are born good or bad. Sure, some personality traits are kinda inborn, but ultimately anyone can be led down a bad path under the right circumstances.

[NerdyDJ]

If this stays, it will be the most shit story ever! But I'm calling a red herring.

[Jay Dogg]

[/B]

I don't see how that's an "interesting exploration" of Steve's character at all, because it's not even his character. It's some artificial implant by Red Skull, and a gigantic waste of time, pointless basically.

Losing your mind over this is pointless. One issue, people...one...issue.

[parker stark]

Reminds me of the Crossing storyline in the 90s. That turned Tony Stark into a sleeper agent of Kang.

[Prof. Warren]

Losing your mind over this is pointless. One issue, people...one...issue.

You'd think anyone who'd read comics for any reasonable length of time would know by now not to lose their sh*t at a storyline right off the bat.

[Prof. Warren]

Exactly. Marvel has become that annoying kid in school who would do and say anything -- no matter how in poor taste it was -- for attention. Marvel: "Hey, Cap fans! You wanted Steve Rogers back as Captain America?! Here he is, just in time for his 75th anniversary! Oh, but he's evil and always has been. Thanks for buying our gimmicks, suckers."

I can't support a company that so regularly, gleefully trolls their most dedicated fans. They might as well do some "shocking" summer event where they reveal all my favorite heroes are imposters, because they don't feel like them anyway. This over-reliance on gimmicks and shocking twists to sell books is a real turn off.

You know, if there was social media in the '70s, I'm sure you would have seen fans losing their sh*t over the Secret Empire storyline and vehemently accusing Marvel of disgracing Captain America, disrespecting the fans, and vowing to never give Marvel another cent of their money.

[Tien Long]

Part of me is interested in this particular storyline. Some of the best ways of creating compelling and new stories is by subverting old tropes. Nothing is more shocking than seeing Captain America as a Nazi-esque member of Hydra. Indeed, the twist hurt the most mainly because of the build-up through the story. Seeing a young Steven helped by Ms. Sinclar, Cap giving an inspirational speech of their being another way, the good vibes brought by the return of Free Spirit and Jack Flag, Steve fighting the good fight, all of these seemed to point to a new positive direction. Certainly, this title seemed to be the counter to the real and weighty issues of Captain America: Sam Wilson.

Seeing Cap chuck Jack Flag out of an airplane, Ms. Sinclar as a Hydra agent, and Cap claim "Hail Hydra" were definitely big shocks. Again, I can't fault the creativity in these decisions. Additionally, Ms. Sinclair's affiliation with Hydra reminds me a lot of the Nazi Bund movement that occurred in America during the 30s, right on the eve of WWII.

HOWEVER

With the weightiness of Sam Wilson's title, I was expecting Steve Rogers' one to be more uplifting and unifying. I wanted to see old stories of Cap being hopeful and positive, akin to what is going on in DC Rebirth. Yeah, America is going through tough divisive times, but Cap always brought people together. Now, I get Cap is a Nazi. Crap. . Yeah, it probably won't last, and there's probably some big reveal soon, but still....

I'll read the next issue. Intellectually, I'm intrigued at all of the creative possibilities of this. But gut feeling wise? Yeah, I'm pretty bummed.

[cyberhubbs]

Even with Cap playing his part to infiltrate and decimate Hydra from within, 'cause let's be honest that's where this is going and I'm worried for anyone who thinks otherwise, I think you'll still get heroic deeds along the way. Cap just needs to find inventive ways of saving lives while not blowing his cover.

[ZeroBG82]

Even with Cap playing his part to infiltrate and decimate Hydra from within, 'cause let's be honest that's where this is going and I'm worried for anyone who thinks otherwise, I think you'll still get heroic deeds along the way. Cap just needs to find inventive ways of saving lives while not blowing his cover.

Except there's no reason to think that's what's happening. Obviously, Jack Flagg could be saved a dozen different ways, but why bother? The only person Cap has with him in the plane is the CAPTIVE Dr. Selvig when he makes his Hail Hydra. So unless there's some reason why Selvig, who isn't HYDRA, needs to know Cap is, or he seriously thinks anyone watching from some kind of remote camera would believe it, the undercover argument falls flat.

[jackolover]

I know a lot of people have been extremely mad about this, but does anyone really expect it to be permanent and not some form of fuckery that will get undone? I mean, really? I'm kinda intrigued to see what's up, personally.

And no, just because it's going to be undopne in the end does not make it 'pointless'. He could still learn something about himself, it reveals how much of who he is is due to his upbringing at a young age, shows how even a good person can turn out bad under the right (wrong?) circumstances. I mean, just look at the suicide bomber in the beginning, obvious parallels there. He wasn't a bad guy so much, just came from bad circumstances that led him down a terrible path. I guess if Captain America just being inherently a good person is important to you i could see it being upsetting, but personally, I don't buy into the notion that people are born good or bad. Sure, some personality traits are kinda inborn, but ultimately anyone can be led down a bad path under the right circumstances.

But Steve was led down the right path, right from the start. How could anyone take this seriously? It's retroactively rewriting Steves history, which they could do, (because, cosmic cube and all), but it would be pointless. This story sounds like the Skrulls that cloned the Illuminati and told the Illuminati they were the real people. You know it's a fake out, and the living dolls are disposable. This thing with Hydra Steve sounds like that. They make a scenario where a Steve Rogers is indoctrinated in Dimension Z and send him out into the world.

But our Steve Rogers being Hydra? That's too far fetched after all this history has gone gone by. But if they pull this off, then they may as well push and stretch all the primary characters under a bus. You won't need to have anybody recognisably like they were before. It's like Marvel has said to its editors, "Undo the stitching of all the Marvel characters, and let's see what you come up with, if you completely put them back together differently".

Is there any chance Kobik inserted Hydra Steve into his history when she converted him into young Steve again? After all, she is a cosmic cube, and, Red Skull and Sin only come into play after Steves young again in the FCBD issue.

[datugu]

I'm pretty sure we will discover that he was a triple agent... honestly this go against everything about him and how he normally act...

[Orbus]

Except there's no reason to think that's what's happening. Obviously, Jack Flagg could be saved a dozen different ways, but why bother? The only person Cap has with him in the plane is the CAPTIVE Dr. Selvig when he makes his Hail Hydra. So unless there's some reason why Selvig, who isn't HYDRA, needs to know Cap is, or he seriously thinks anyone watching from some kind of remote camera would believe it, the undercover argument falls flat.

I'm still keeping to me prediction that Steve has his mind altered by history being changed however it's still possible he's a double agent for the good guys. In fact you could probably split the difference and say that Steve off panel managed to inwardly see through the Hydra indoctrination he now remembers and is using the idea that Hydra believes he's now one of them to infiltrate them and bring them apart from within.

The idea he says "hail Hydra" to a captive Selvig is that presumably wants to deliver Selvig and Zemo to the Red Skull as prove himself. Sure he could let Selvig in on the ruse but I think it'd be important that Selvig be convincing if under duress. You could argue that using Selvig and "killing" Jack are the terrible price to pay for what he believes in ie: bringing down Hydra. Certainly the end of the FCBD issue shows he's very determined than ever to do so. Personally I don't think this is the case, like I said I think that his mind has been altered and that he will slowly remember his real history but a double agent thing is definitely possible.

[cyberhubbs]

Except there's no reason to think that's what's happening. Obviously, Jack Flagg could be saved a dozen different ways, but why bother? The only person Cap has with him in the plane is the CAPTIVE Dr. Selvig when he makes his Hail Hydra. So unless there's some reason why Selvig, who isn't HYDRA, needs to know Cap is, or he seriously thinks anyone watching from some kind of remote camera would believe it, the undercover argument falls flat.

Maybe that's how he infiltrates Hydra. Fact remains tbat Cap isn't gonna be evil. Not for real for real evil.

[Coin Biter]

Comparisons with "the Crossing" are crazy. It's obvious that eeeeevil Cap is a victim of reality manipulation or is playing a long con.

He'll be back to his sanctimonious best soon enough.

Actually, I'm surprised there isn't more controversy over the "Red Skull appealing to people over concerns about refugees from the war in Syria" panels, but that kind of well meaning albeit heavy handed political analogy is obviously pretty familiar to Cap comics.

[Darthkostis]

Comparisons with "the Crossing" are crazy. It's obvious that eeeeevil Cap is a victim of reality manipulation or is playing a long con.

He'll be back to his sanctimonious best soon enough.

Actually, I'm surprised there isn't more controversy over the "Red Skull appealing to people over concerns about refugees from the war in Syria" panels, but that kind of well meaning albeit heavy handed political analogy is obviously pretty familiar to Cap comics.

Yeah, I brought that up earlier, but considering the majority of posters are from the US, the whole thing doesn't affect them the same way it affects someone from Europe. As a person who resides in the "Red Zone" of this whole thing, I found Spencer's handling of such a complex issue very "black or white", which, needles to say, left a sour taste in my mouth.