All the clues for Superman Post-Rebirth in focus (Spoilers)

[Tayswift]

But, it is just like Power Girl and Supergirl. Same people, but one is older and was forged from different experiences. This is the same here. With the added benefit of distinctions like one Lois having powers and one pair of Lois and Clark together with a child. I think they've grown different enough.

I don't think anyone can see the power girl case and supergirl as successful, or even then being the same character.
It's not even the same situation

[Tayswift]

But once again, the problem with Superman is that the world he comes from is basically THE SAME he is in right now. Most of the big events happened here, too - for example, there was the Blackest Night, alien invasions and so on. What secret knowledge could he come up with which people of this world haven't lived yet, or couldn't understand on their own? President Luthor? Does ANYONE could seriously think that is a good idea, in New52 or E-1 or E-whatever?


The situation is particularly messy because - and that's the writers' fault - they never provided New52 with a streamlined history. It's been FIVE years, and up to Superman Rebirth we NEVER knew if Death of Superman occurred on this universe, too. Quite frankly, that's inexcusable - and that's the reason this "comparison between continuities" can't really work: new52 history is simply too frail.


Wally West is in a slightly different position because, in fact, he DID miss something from the previous continuity - Linda, his family, and so on. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that giving him a deeper knowledge of events which haven't occurred yet is a good idea (well, if he hasn't lost such memories yet): in fact, I think that this is confusing as hell and all the possible stories which come to my mind have extremely creepy consequences (like, Wally meeting Linda Park and slowly making her fall in love with him because his knowledge of her tastes and their unborn children gives him an advantage upon her). But at least there is a possibilitiy for stories.


Superman is in a different position, though, because - once again - there aren't huge differences between his world and THIS world to give him an advantage about it. I think that they will simply put him as a New52 Superman stand-in - that's the reason I am pretty sure that Bryan Hitch didn't radically change the plot for his JLA stories in order to accommodate the presence of SuperDad.





Your second option is the answer to the first one. Nuperman has enough fans that he can't be swept under the rug, and he will always cast a shadow on SuperDad, at least for the foreseeable future and as long as NuLois is around. But SuperDad has some fans too, and he will have even more now that Jon's getting such a great push. And they can't sweep him under the rug, either.


At this point, all which comes to my mind (aside from one question, that is: WHY THE HELL did they have to create such horrible mess? I mean, think about it, there's literally zero reason) is what I have already said, that is: they need to find a way to create a unified continuity where the characters' memories are real memories of real facts. That is, something which they should have done in the first place.


The funny fact is that, if they had created this whole Superman doppelganger mess with a STORY in mind, instead of a simple gimmick, they could have made something interesting - this old Superman story comes to my mind, and it is an excellent example of what you can do with multiple Supermen http://comicvine.gamespot.com/action...s/4000-121272/

But, as I said, this is not a story, but just a gimmick which they implemented for... Well, for some reason I really can't understand yet.

blackest night and britghest day didn't happened or at least: "happened but it was different from what you read back then"

the setup is so different now, that I can't even say superman can help avoiding a identity crisis or cry for justice.

I think the reason is that DC want people talking and want a mistery to keep on background and make people come back.

and/or DC really thing have the pre52 is what majority of readers want

[A Guy's Name]

Oh, one more clue or whatever for Rebirth is Nite Owl's ship showing up in the Rebirth one shots. You see it when SuperDad was floating over N52 Superman's tomb. The glowing eyes of Nite Owl's ship in the shadows.
There's also an appearance of Nite Owl's ship in the Batman Rebirth one shot.
Don't know where, I also don't know about the other Rebirth one shots having some sort of cameo/clue.

[adrikito]

This is the little I know about the rebirths...

Some abandoned characters for years have returned.. Hal Jordan, Barry Allen ..

Here superdad return.. The difference is that they have killed a character for it.. the WORST REBIRTH.

Although it seems stupid to extend this two years... For that ¿manhattan? In the end what will happen? All 10 years older? It's stupid..

[DragonPiece]

Oh, one more clue or whatever for Rebirth is Nite Owl's ship showing up in the Rebirth one shots. You see it when SuperDad was floating over N52 Superman's tomb. The glowing eyes of Nite Owl's ship in the shadows.
There's also an appearance of Nite Owl's ship in the Batman Rebirth one shot.
Don't know where, I also don't know about the other Rebirth one shots having some sort of cameo/clue.

Yeah, neither of those happened..

[A Guy's Name]

Yeah, neither of those happened..

Read it again, those small glowing blue eyes thing in the shadows. Those are the "eyes" of Nite Owl's ship. 2nd page. It's almost unnoticeable. Those aren't just lights.

[vasir12]

Read it again, those small glowing blue eyes thing in the shadows. Those are the "eyes" of Nite Owl's ship. 2nd page. It's almost unnoticeable. Those aren't just lights.

I know the lights you're talking about, but if you look again, you can see a third light right off the dialogue box.

[Zero-Man]

Its not kon, but a construct.

Or superboy prime lol

Not so funny when you consider Johns' work with that character in the past.

Here's what this thread seems to be missing: Brainiac removed Clark and Lois along with their Gotham (pre-Flashpoint) from that timeline before the Flashpoint effect/Manhattan's meddling took place.

Clark thinks he and his family are from a parallel world, but he's just from an earlier point in the timeline. This is what Oz means when he says they aren't what they believe themselves to be.

Johns told Newsarama he was unhappy with how the New 52 sabotaged some characters, Kon among them.

I think it's clear that

A) Lois and Clark Superman is the post-COIE Superman (despite his "tweaked" uniform in the Superman Rebirth issue)
B) Pre-Flashpoint Superman will be instrumental to the restoration of the pre-Flashpoint DCU. Just wait until he meets Wally.

My personal theory as to who New 52 Superman and Lois really were?

Last time we saw this character, he was trapped by Kon and Kara in the Source Wall.

Manhattan needed "a Superman" for his "new universe" (New 52) as Brainiac had already taken the original.

New 52 Superman was Superboy Prime. He was given a chance at redemption by being Manhattan's Superman, an experiment to see what could be done with a being so powerful yet so corrupted by that power, not unlike Jon Osterman.

As for New 52 Lois, she's either a new creation of Manhattan's or Lori Lemmon, Prime's girlfriend. They do have the same initials, after all...

[cjcaf]

I still think that, in fact, what they really wanted was some elements reinstated, like the Lois Lane/Superman couple.
But even if there were some fans who were nitpicky and wanted post-Crisis Superman back (not a tweaked version of Nuperman).... They didn't really get it. Or, better to say, they didn't get all the elements which made that version of the character... Post-Crisis Superman.

Think about it: the Kents are dead, the current cast is Nuperman's, even the Fortress is the New52 version.

And by the way, does post-Crisis Superman mean "Byrne Superman"? Because postCrisis Superman did have at least 3 different origins.

I am just going to out and out say here that I was one of the ones that wanted this specific Superman back. Convergence was not my favorite story but seeing Lois and Clark as a married couple again and Lois pregnant was great. I enjoyed Superman: Lois and Clark series with finding out how he had made his way in this different world and the development of Jon's character. I will miss Kon-El from pre-flashpoint but Jon makes at least a worthy successor to him. I never cared for Nuperman as he seemed a little more cold a little more aloof and sorry the two characters are very different in one important quality. Superdad was always very human emphasizing more to his earthly upbringing than his Kryptonian heritage. Nuperman was always made to feel the alien and probably another reason for that horrible WW pairing rather than with Lois. New 52 felt just like the whole One More Day Brand NEw Day set up in Spider-Man. Let's just break everything because we want to be different. I liked that Rebirth seemed to be an apology to fans like myself for the messing up of some very beloved characters and stories.

[L.R Johansson]

Not so funny when you consider Johns' work with that character in the past.

Here's what this thread seems to be missing: Brainiac removed Clark and Lois along with their Gotham (pre-Flashpoint) from that timeline before the Flashpoint effect/Manhattan's meddling took place.

Clark thinks he and his family are from a parallel world, but he's just from an earlier point in the timeline. This is what Oz means when he says they aren't what they believe themselves to be.

Johns told Newsarama he was unhappy with how the New 52 sabotaged some characters, Kon among them.

I think it's clear that

A) Lois and Clark Superman is the post-COIE Superman (despite his "tweaked" uniform in the Superman Rebirth issue)
B) Pre-Flashpoint Superman will be instrumental to the restoration of the pre-Flashpoint DCU. Just wait until he meets Wally.

My personal theory as to who New 52 Superman and Lois really were?

Last time we saw this character, he was trapped by Kon and Kara in the Source Wall.

Manhattan needed "a Superman" for his "new universe" (New 52) as Brainiac had already taken the original.

New 52 Superman was Superboy Prime. He was given a chance at redemption by being Manhattan's Superman, an experiment to see what could be done with a being so powerful yet so corrupted by that power, not unlike Jon Osterman.

As for New 52 Lois, she's either a new creation of Manhattan's or Lori Lemmon, Prime's girlfriend. They do have the same initials, after all...

Dear GOD!! No! Just... NO!

This might possibly be worse than him being Kon, worse than him being Sand Superman or even a clone!


My goodness... that would be such a disrepect to the fans and the creators who worked on him... Jesus...

[Patrick Gerard]

Not so funny when you consider Johns' work with that character in the past.

Here's what this thread seems to be missing: Brainiac removed Clark and Lois along with their Gotham (pre-Flashpoint) from that timeline before the Flashpoint effect/Manhattan's meddling took place.

Clark thinks he and his family are from a parallel world, but he's just from an earlier point in the timeline. This is what Oz means when he says they aren't what they believe themselves to be.

Johns told Newsarama he was unhappy with how the New 52 sabotaged some characters, Kon among them.

I think it's clear that

A) Lois and Clark Superman is the post-COIE Superman (despite his "tweaked" uniform in the Superman Rebirth issue)
B) Pre-Flashpoint Superman will be instrumental to the restoration of the pre-Flashpoint DCU. Just wait until he meets Wally.

My personal theory as to who New 52 Superman and Lois really were?

Last time we saw this character, he was trapped by Kon and Kara in the Source Wall.

Manhattan needed "a Superman" for his "new universe" (New 52) as Brainiac had already taken the original.

New 52 Superman was Superboy Prime. He was given a chance at redemption by being Manhattan's Superman, an experiment to see what could be done with a being so powerful yet so corrupted by that power, not unlike Jon Osterman.

As for New 52 Lois, she's either a new creation of Manhattan's or Lori Lemmon, Prime's girlfriend. They do have the same initials, after all...

Here's my thing:

Any theory that presupposes Manhattan is the only Watchmen character involved feels "off". Any theory that dismisses the 10 stolen years as an experiment feels "off". Any theory that presupposes the Watchmen characters are working with one another rather than against one another with their own conflicting agendas feels "off" to me.

I kind of think Manhattan didn't want there to BE a Superman and Ozymandias is spoiling things. Or maybe Manhattan stole the DC Universe's "hope" to alter his own universe at Veidt's suggestion but was disappointed at what that did to the DC Universe and Veidt is trying to patch together the DC Universe to make up for what he and Manhattan stole. Veidt is a Utopian so I think he probably thinks they could "borrow" some of the DC Universe's DNA to fix their world and patch up whatever damage that did. So maybe they're working together but Veidt is working extra hard to justify the idea of tampering with another universe to Manhattan.

Or as I alluded to elsewhere, maybe Manhattan isn't involved at all and all we're dealing with is a bunch of cosmic interlopers who READ Watchmen. The button in the Batcave points to that idea since there's no sound reason I can think of for how the button got blood back on it and wound up there unless it was someone who READ Watchmen who planted it there or unless Rorschach is working against the others by planting the button as a clue.