Preferred duration of Dick Grayson's Robin career?

[nhienphan2808]

You erase Dick Graysons history you unknowingly erase and invalidate everyone’s history. This is their exact attitude during the new52 and the result is ******* unheroic Batman , proto-Dick Grayson Red Hood, fascist and Mary Sue Tim Drake and Glorified True Son Damian Wayne, and legacy characters flushed down the toilet. I will not credit Dick for making them NOT so, just his history is the base for theirs.

[Mr. White]

A dismissive attitude like this has lead to the mangled DC timeline.

In your opinion.
Which you are totally entitled to.
But let me ask you this (genuinely) - Why (or is it What) does it matter that Dick was Robin for X number of years prior to "today"?

[Ascended]

Parallel question: how far was Bruce into his Batman career when Dick became Robin?

I know in different versions it's been between years 1-3, and I myself like the idea of Bruce taking Dick on as a ward towards the end of his first year, and Dick becoming Robin halfway or so through Bruce's second year, no later than the end of year 2, and by year 3 Robin should be a regular, full-time partner and be out of any kind of "probation" period.

I think the death of the Graysons is a pretty solid moment to end Bruce's rookie year on. It shows that Bruce has a lot to learn, but I like how he takes that "failure" and turns it into a positive.

[byrd156]

In your opinion.
Which you are totally entitled to.
But let me ask you this (genuinely) - Why (or is it What) does it matter that Dick was Robin for X number of years prior to "today"?

The years matter because these were years we saw. Dick grew from a Boy Wonder to a Teen Wonder to Nightwing. It's an important part of his journey. SHOW DON'T TELL. We got to see Dick's journey play out. Knowing how long he was Robin and what stories still happened or matter help inform us on who is as a character.

Past is prologue. Without it each comic should just be independent of each other and character consistency shouldn't matter. Each writer could do whatever the hell they want without regard for other writers, editors, or for the longevity of the character. If a character's history doesn't matter then whatever new shake-up story that will rock the world of comics for years to come doesn't matter before it even reaches the shelves.

[Mr. White]

The years matter because these were years we saw. Dick grew from a Boy Wonder to a Teen Wonder to Nightwing. It's an important part of his journey. SHOW DON'T TELL. We got to see Dick's journey play out. Knowing how long he was Robin and what stories still happened or matter help inform us on who is as a character.

Past is prologue. Without it each comic should just be independent of each other and character consistency shouldn't matter. Each writer could do whatever the hell they want without regard for other writers, editors, or for the longevity of the character. If a character's history doesn't matter then whatever new shake-up story that will rock the world of comics for years to come doesn't matter before it even reaches the shelves.

Interesting.
While I do get your point and agree with you (to a degree) - I see it a bit differently.
The moments, events, experiences, occurrences etcetera do matter. Without a doubt.
The actual number of years it took to go through these things, which is the understanding of the OP, doesn't.
Whether it took 4 years or 8 years to go live these experiences etc. doesn't change the fact that they happened and we lived through it.
Perhaps I'm being too literal with the thread question?

[Buried Alien]

Interesting.
While I do get your point and agree with you (to a degree) - I see it a bit differently.
The moments, events, experiences, occurrences etcetera do matter. Without a doubt.
The actual number of years it took to go through these things, which is the understanding of the OP, doesn't.
Whether it took 4 years or 8 years to go live these experiences etc. doesn't change the fact that they happened and we lived through it.
Perhaps I'm being too literal with the thread question?

It's DC's fault for sometimes trying to assign arbitrary and unreasonable parameters to these matters.

For example, they'll tell you that everything published from 1940 to the present day happened to Dick Grayson...but it all happened in the space of 36 months.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[oasis1313]

It's DC's fault for sometimes trying to assign arbitrary and unreasonable parameters to these matters.

For example, they'll tell you that everything published from 1940 to the present day happened to Dick Grayson...but it all happened in the space of 36 months.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Didio didn't do well in the New Math classes back in the 60's.

[Aahz]

Same for me... He just had to be very young when Bruce takes him in, both for Bruce to relate to him so much and for them to have the father-son relationship. Bruce has once claimed he is proud of Dick and feels it is the one thing that he has done right. For me that is still "canon" and for that to happen, Bruce and Dick need to spend considerable time where Bruce is raising him as a parent (a relationship that goes beyond the Batman-Robin partnership). Given it is this bond Dick referred to when Bruce had his "I am Batman, not Bruce Wayne" during the whole Murderer/Fugitive thing too, I think it is really important to maintain it.

So for me Dick's parents die and he is taken in by Bruce at age 8

age 9-10 he is in training... maybe occasionally taken out to the field as Robin when Batman isn't going against psychos like Joker but rather regular patrolling or Condiment King :P
age 10-11+ he is regularly coming on missions and his name is starting to get known...
age 16 - Teen Titans
age 18 - College
age 19 - Nightwing (Jason is Robin at 14/15)
age 20 - Jason Dies
age 21 - Tim comes aboard (Tim is 13/14)
age 22 - Prodigal, 1st time as Batman
age 25 - Batman with Damian as Robin (who is 10)
age 26- Back to Nightwing
age 28 - current timeline


If Dick was 8 when Bruce took him in and Bruce was 22 and Dick is now around 28, that would make Bruce 42 years old, which is just fine IMO.

( I voted 8, taking 10-11 as the age he is Robin.. but could easily be 10)

I think it is (pre flashpoint) more like:

age 12 - his parents die, he starts to train
age 13 - he he becomes Robin
age 15/16 - Teen Titans
age 18 - College
age 19 - Nightwing (Jason is Robin at 12)
age 20 - Crisis on Inifinte Earth
age 21 - Barbara is shot/Jason Dies/Tim comes aboard (Tim is 13)
age 22 or 23 - Prodigal, 1st time as Batman
age 26 or 27 - Batman with Damian as Robin (who is 10)

the last two are a little bit tricky since they started to mess with ages and timelines around Knightfall.

[byrd156]

Interesting.
While I do get your point and agree with you (to a degree) - I see it a bit differently.
The moments, events, experiences, occurrences etcetera do matter. Without a doubt.
The actual number of years it took to go through these things, which is the understanding of the OP, doesn't.
Whether it took 4 years or 8 years to go live these experiences etc. doesn't change the fact that they happened and we lived through it.
Perhaps I'm being too literal with the thread question?

Sure the number doesn't really matter as long as it isn't damaging to the rest of the universe. Comics will always have a sliding time scale, they just need to adjust accordingly. Like when DC tried to fit everything in a 5 year time scale that somehow had 4 Robins come and go.

A vague ten years should keep everything nice and have enough room. The exact dates and things don't matter, normal comics can't pull a Young Justice, well they could but I know DC would probably screw it up anyway.

[oasis1313]

You erase Dick Graysons history you unknowingly erase and invalidate everyone’s history. This is their exact attitude during the new52 and the result is ******* unheroic Batman , proto-Dick Grayson Red Hood, fascist and Mary Sue Tim Drake and Glorified True Son Damian Wayne, and legacy characters flushed down the toilet.

Who sez DC did it unknowingly?

[nhienphan2808]

Well yeah, amittedly they did it knowingly in the new52. I would say the unknowing part was from the early 2000 where bullshit like Nightwing Year One and Nightwing Annual 2 were written. It’s unknowingly because Dicks an emotional and friendly guy. It was easy to write sob stories about how he couldn’t keep his life and pants together. it was SO freaking easy to say Jason’s death wasnt because Bruce failed to communicate to anyone, mostly Dick about Jason and it’s just Jason being the bad Robin, or Tim sleuthing out who Batman is was pure skills and not because he was obsessed with Dick and had photos of Robin captured or anything, and even Dick himself said his efforts was nothing and it’s Bruces blood that’s in Damian. I can imagine editorials and Dixon was like : “yup, he’s the emotional guy. Just let him have this love triangle drama and this helplessness and desperation in front of Batman that’s SO realistic and relatable, coz everyone else is so intellectual and scary now. I don’t want to touch Tim coz he’s the meta Robin to go with Batgod now, i mean he’s extra protected. Oh and also let forget that he was Batman once although I wrote it myself. You know coz that Dick Grayson was connected to the NTT franchise that totally embarrassed Batman” It was easy to lie. Not many readers would REALLY read the comics and see Dicks role in the formation of all the other Robins. That’s why no one knows what they are gonna become now.
Tim’s argument become naught even just symbolically , because robin didn’t become a symbol himself in 1 year.

[nhienphan2808]

For the years, I’m ok with becoming Robin at 8, but I refer 12. 8 is nice when you want True Batdad and Robinson goodness, but 12 gave him more personality regarding His trauma and coping. It’s usually looked at through Bruce’s eyes, that this boy has the same pain at his, but I want To look at it through Dicks. And see how traumalized but strong and independent he is. That he at least got a glimpse of what he was doing when he said he wanted to take revenge and then help. And angry Daredevil Dick being taught about forgiveness and heroism. And that Bruce was not prepared to be a dad at all until Jason. I’d take 19 year old Nightwing and that’d be 7 years.

[bat39]

Parallel question: how far was Bruce into his Batman career when Dick became Robin?

If we go by Golden Age continuity, Dick became Robin about one year into Bruce's Batman career. If we go by Post-COIE continuity, Dick became Robin in Bruce's third year as Batman.

I think in another continuity (possibly the Adam West TV series), Bruce and Dick decided to start the Batman and Robin thing at the same time.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

This question always interests me.

In terms of real-world publication, Batman's pre-Robin era was just a year. And that applies to the Golden Age/Earth Two continuity as well.

But thanks to Frank Miller, the pre-Robin/solo era has become increasingly more significant with each passing year and decade, with literally hundreds of stories being set in that period. Following COIE, you also had significant events like the first appearance of most of the rogue's gallery, Batman's partnership with Jim Gordon etc. being moved back to the pre-Robin era. So, all things considered, it makes sense for it to have gone on a while.

Personally, I think Dick became Robin anywhere between 1-3 years after Bruce first put on the cowl - at least as far as any kind of 'mainstream' comic-book continuity is concerned. But I think it also makes sense if Bruce had been Batman for, say, 5-6 years before Robin came along, if you don't have to worry about timeline compression.

I think what's more important than the specific number of years is the context of Batman's career at that point in time. I feel that at the time Dick becomes Robin, Batman is already well-established in Gotham and has been active long enough to be considered an experienced vigilante. A rookie Bruce Wayne bringing a young boy into his war against crime just doesn't make sense. It has to be someone who's been doing it for a while and knows that he is making a difference and that his methods can ensure that the boy doesn't get hurt in the field.

[Aahz]

The guy who made the "The Real Batman Chronology Project", has in his modern age timeline Dick becoming Robin in Year 6.

[Schumiac]

On the other hand h has iirc 13 or 14 candels on his cake and gets his own Batplane in that story.

Than a few issues later in Batman #18, you see Dicks report card where he has classes like Latin and Chemistry, that's probably not stuff they usually teach at elementary schools.

As someone who never had the exact number of candles on a birthday cake as their age, must say I don't think much for the cake one... The "main" point of the cake was the airplane at its center -as he was to be given a real airplane as a gift-, and the candles were just going around the cake in even gaps, their number mostly determined by the circumference of it... So seemed mostly a decorational/"artistic" choice... the spanking bit comes off as much more deliberate, you have the dialogue to support it. And the spanks you get are supposed to be based on age, there is no way around it...

As for him getting an airplane as a gift. Doesn't really mean much. Just like his crimefighting, it is outragous either way when one thinks "realistically", no matter if he is 9 or 12 o 13..

The classes... Actually wouldn't be surprised if Latin was indeed being thought at elementary school, esp at a private one. Chemistry is more doubtful... Still not hard to fanwank that there is a private school out there that is teaching Chemistry. 3rd graders DO learn about chemistry after all, but normally it is done as part of the more general "Science" class I believe... Still, wouldn't be a total surprise if there are schools who have them seperate... Especially in the world of comics.

For the jobs, heh, he probably had Batman's recommendation and just landed the jobs regardless of his qualifications or lack there of. When Dick ran away from home after Batman seemingly fired him from Robin, he was failing to find a job and certainly thought he'd land one easily if he got Batman's recommendation....I also remember there being a fan letter asking DC how Robin who is obviously not old enough to be driving the Batmobile gets to drive it and their answer was something like with Batman vouching for him, GCPD issues a special license for just Robin or something. Basically, if Batman asked for it/recommended it, he got it... That was DC's way of going around many logic/realism issues it seems. Kind of like the HISHE Batman saying "because I am Batman" to explain every impossible thing he pulls off... )

The fact of the matter is, age is rather ambigious in comics. And was even more so in earlier comics where they really could care less about his age and realism and what not.. There is no one true answer out there, but mostly interpretations and personal preferences. Readers making their own conclusions based on little bits and pieces.... I think we are more conscious and obsessed about those things now, which is also why creators start to openly state ages more, though it is not uniform and they can have different takes as well.... For Dick's history and meaning - the father/son relationship, the parallel tragedy, and the "Boy"-Wonder thing (because him being ridiculously young is part of the whole deal) I think him being taking in at 8 and then starting out as Robin around 9/10 works the best. I believe it is also why that is a popular age with creators. And the early comics don't necessarily rule it out...

As for Bruce/Batman... I always liked him taking in Robin after a year as Batman... He would be young enough, but also starting to form considerable experience (given he is doing this daily!). And they would continue to grow together as a crime fighting duo. In general anything between 1-3 years works for me...