Is any good story safe?!

[Trey Strain]

You can't tell a corporation, "You've made enough money off that concept."

They won't listen to you.

[KoriandrJean]

It seems strange to me that Captain Atom--and any ersatz version of him--is always made to carry the can for everything wrong in the world. I'll have to go back and read the original Charltons. Was that built into the character? I thought Captain Atom was supposed to be a happy, fun character.

Good point here! I would hope that, somehow, someway, he's restored to his original updated Charlton appearance, rather than a silver Dr. Manhattan ripoff!

(I never did understand where that design came from until recently .... Very recently.)

[Carabas]

One of the big deals about Watchmen was the idea that the world was mundane before the Watchmen arrived. It answered the question, "Whar would happen if Superheroes were real?" This answers the question, "What happens when Superhero Universes collide?" Same thing that always happens. Nothing's special, I get it, throw Sandman and Preacher in this crossover too. They can have Swamp Thing gumbo with Y the Last Man.

Well, for one thing, DC doesn't own Preacher or Y The Last Man.

They do own every last bit of Sandman, and I am frankly astonished at the restraint they have shown there.

[superduperman]

My original point was that nobody seems to want to come up with an original idea anymore, they just want to go back to the same old well. This was Moore's original complaint when it came to Watchmen in the first place. Instead of inspiring other creators to do something different, it just sparked a bunch of imitators. Vertigo has a lot of good original concepts but of course none of them can be used in the mainstream DCU. But it also raises the question: Are we out of original ideas when it comes to comics? Is that why the Big Two keep going back to the same old wells in the first place? Because they don't know what else to do with super-hero comics anymore? So you end up with Captain America as a Hydra agent and Dr. Manhattan creating the DCU.

Some of the best comics stories I've seen lately are not conducive to a super-hero universe. You couldn't do something like Y the Last Man or DMZ in the mainstream DCU. So maybe the larger question should be, are super-hero comics dying? Is Dr. Manhattan in the DCU the canary in the coal mine?

[Johnny Thunders!]

Delirium Vs. Deathstroke! It had to happen!

[PlumeNoir]

Good point here! I would hope that, somehow, someway, he's restored to his original updated Charlton appearance, rather than a silver Dr. Manhattan ripoff!

Personally, I love the chrome shell design. Sadly, not all artists can pull it off well.

(I never did understand where that design came from until recently .... Very recently.)

I don't know the story behind this, could you fill me in, please?

[Carabas]

My original point was that nobody seems to want to come up with an original idea anymore, they just want to go back to the same old well.

Oh, they want to, it's just that new ideas have been proven over and over again to not sell at all in the DC/Marvel environment. The core fanbase has an intense dislike of new things. They want more X-Men and Batman books, and crossover events where Superman dies, again.

ETA: and if, as a writer, you have a really good idea, then you damn well put it into a story that you own, at Image or Dark Horse or even Vertigo or Marvel Icon.
Because if you use it in a regular, work-for-hire, DC/Marvel book, it'll die a quick dead, and if beyond hopes it is a runaway succes, it'll be DC/Marvel's succes, not yours, and you won't be rewarded for your efforts.

Through their stance on creator-owned work, and their catering to an overly nostalgic fanbase, DC and Marvel have created an atmosphere that is outright hostile, toxic to new ideas in their shared superhero universes.

This was Moore's original complaint when it came to Watchmen in the first place. Instead of inspiring other creators to do something different, it just sparked a bunch of imitators. Vertigo has a lot of good original concepts but of course none of them can be used in the mainstream DCU. But it also raises the question: Are we out of original ideas when it comes to comics? Is that why the Big Two keep going back to the same old wells in the first place? Because they don't know what else to do with super-hero comics anymore? So you end up with Captain America as a Hydra agent and Dr. Manhattan creating the DCU.

There are still plenty of new characters that get ongoing books at Marvel and DC. They generally do not last more than 12 issues, if even that.

Some of the best comics stories I've seen lately are not conducive to a super-hero universe. You couldn't do something like Y the Last Man or DMZ in the mainstream DCU. So maybe the larger question should be, are super-hero comics dying? Is Dr. Manhattan in the DCU the canary in the coal mine?

Superhero comics have been dead since at least the 80's. What we see now if just a zombie. The corporate superhero comics industry is functionally undead.

[colonyofcells]

Once the New 52 and Rebirth continuity is fixed 100%, it will probably be time for the next reboot. Nobody is safe from reboots.

[Flash Gordon]

It seems strange to me that Captain Atom--and any ersatz version of him--is always made to carry the can for everything wrong in the world. I'll have to go back and read the original Charltons. Was that built into the character? I thought Captain Atom was supposed to be a happy, fun character.

Yep, the OG Cap is pretty much an action/adventure character. He's great.

I don't mind mixing some Doc Manhattan elements in, like the New 52 series did wonderfully, but not going full force.

[Fairyprincess]

Stormwatch vs. The invisibles???

[Trey Strain]

Your question actually was "Is any good story safe?" And I addressed that. But if you want to know why so little original stuff is being written, the answer is that readers don't much want it.

[JackDaw]

Superhero comics have been dead since at least the 80's. What we see now if just a zombie. The corporate superhero comics industry is functionally undead.

Marvel and DC mainstream super hero comics have certainly become repetitive to an absurd degree. They have become about brand management rather than story telling.

No main character must age, retire or die. And many kinds of stories have become taboo in the main continuity...you couldn't tell the StormWatch/ Authority "long story" where the main heroes finally decided to actually try to engineer a better fairer world by over-riding national governments in main DC or Marvel continuity.

But...that's not to say fresh new stories can't potentially be told using super heroes...it's just a stark reflection of fact that DC and Marvel are presently finding it more profitable to stick to some hoary old approaches and venerated characters rather than move on.

[BohemiaDrinker]

They do own every last bit of Sandman, and I am frankly astonished at the restraint they have shown there.

DC is still in good terms with Neil Gaiman, and being in good terms with Neil Gaiman is a position a company would likely want to keep. There were 3 occasions where those charactrs were used in regular DC Continuity: Infinite Crisis (in a sequence that didn't make the cut to the final story, where Lyta and Hector went to the Dreaming), Morrison's JLA (the Starro story) and Paul Cornell's Lex Luthor run in action. I believe that Gaiman gave express authorization for their use on all of these cases, and in fact wrote the dialogue for Death in Cornell's book.

Ocasionally, Gaiman might put out a new Sandman book, write a Batman story or something, and he will not badmouth DC. Morrison might use the concepts from time to time, and so on. There would be no point in burning a bridge with a guy like Gaiman for a bunch of characters that almost no writers in the industry would know to use right. The bridges with Moore, OTOH, have been burned a long time ago.

[Inhuman X]

My original point was that nobody seems to want to come up with an original idea anymore, they just want to go back to the same old well. This was Moore's original complaint when it came to Watchmen in the first place. Instead of inspiring other creators to do something different, it just sparked a bunch of imitators. Vertigo has a lot of good original concepts but of course none of them can be used in the mainstream DCU. But it also raises the question: Are we out of original ideas when it comes to comics? Is that why the Big Two keep going back to the same old wells in the first place? Because they don't know what else to do with super-hero comics anymore? So you end up with Captain America as a Hydra agent and Dr. Manhattan creating the DCU.

Some of the best comics stories I've seen lately are not conducive to a super-hero universe. You couldn't do something like Y the Last Man or DMZ in the mainstream DCU. So maybe the larger question should be, are super-hero comics dying? Is Dr. Manhattan in the DCU the canary in the coal mine?

It was once put to me like this when I made the same argument. Why should investors take a chance on a brand new idea or property when they have so many older and proven properties that they feel have a better chance of getting a profit from? Its like gambling and they are playing the odds. No one likes a risky investment no matter how cool it seems when a safer one is offered. For example they already have Star Trek so why make a brand new space ship show? It's also easier to sell people on an idea that has been used to great success with a new character set. IE lets do Macbeth with Batman...

There are new ideas waiting for some one to fund. No one wants to take the chance when so many safer, comfortable, and worn in bets are available and so much money is on the line.

[Austin316]

Lets not forget we're talking about a company here whose foundations are based on two characters that are over 75 years old, of course they're going to go back to the well and reuse what has proven successful, we've seen it for decades... It's what DC do and when they don't reuse concepts and instead try things new people moan that things they love have disappeared (JSA etc) and don't bother supporting their more creative initiatives. They have also, for decades, taken characters separate from their own and folded them in to the DC universe, sometimes to the character's detriment.

There are plenty of interesting, creative and original ideas in comics nowadays, just not necessarily in the mainstream superhero lines of the big two, but then it's not like they used to crank these original ideas out every other day in the olden days anyway.