Artemis: what would you do with her as a character?

[Outside_85]

I'm guessing it's because Bizarro isn't a natural occurrence the way a demon or human is. Still sounds stupid to me and I'm banking on her being the least sympathetic character in that book.

Sadly so... but maybe we can have a consolidation prize if she beats up Jason at some point and needs to have Bizarro peel her off him.

[Agent Z]

Sadly so... but maybe we can have a consolidation prize if she beats up Jason at some point and needs to have Bizarro peel her off him.

Funny thing is what I've read of Red Hood and the Outlaws, that's where Jason is at his most likeable. It's when he appears in other Batbooks his less pleasant qualities show up.

Another thing is I'm not sure what Artemis brings to the group skill wise. Jason has modern weapons and Bizarro is a Kryptonian. Artemis is... a woman with a sword and shield.

[Outside_85]

Funny thing is what I've read of Red Hood and the Outlaws, that's where Jason is at his most likeable. It's when he appears in other Batbooks his less pleasant qualities show up.

Another thing is I'm not sure what Artemis brings to the group skill wise. Jason has modern weapons and Bizarro is a Kryptonian. Artemis is... a woman with a sword and shield.

Starting to dread the emergence of a terrible cliche from videogames, Artemis starts out as a hostile and reluctant partner of this caper and somehow ends up falling for Jason's rougeish charms... since we all know that in fiction being an badass (trans: a-hole) is an appealing feature.
My hunch is that Artemis is simply present to add a female element to the team much like Starfire was in RH&O, who knows maybe Starfire's departure highlighted that Jason and Roy wasnt enough. And oddly enough, Artemis is also a red-headed warrior woman from an alien culture... i just hope she gets to keep her pants on in the first issue. Also i suppose she is there because Jason isn't going to get much banter out of a character with all the smarts of a bag of cement.

Anyways, I still kinda feel like Finch blew off one of her own feet when she chose to use Donna as she did instead of Artemis. Donna however could have simply been 'lost' much like Wally was and only remembered who and what she used to be thanks to say, Wally passing through, or Mr. Twister pulling on her strings. (reminds me, Donna has now joined Cassandra in the 'Dont calle me Wonder Girl' box... whats wrong with that name all of a sudden?)

[Agent Z]

Did Artemis the Amazon and Artemis the Olympian ever appear on page together?

[Outside_85]

Did Artemis the Amazon and Artemis the Olympian ever appear on page together?

Not to my knowledge. i do know however that Rucka made her black... and Azzarello made her white...

[Agent Z]

So in a bi of a relation to what abilities the Amazons should have, I was thinking of abilities I could grant Artemis. I came up with the idea of soldier class Amazons who have superhuman strength, speed, agility and durability which vary depending their mastery of Amazon magic. I'd give Artemis such abilities while also granting her hunter/tracker abilites that enhance her senses as well as the ability to use other beings' senses as well i.e she sees what others see, hears what others hear.

[Javier Velasco]

Not to my knowledge. i do know however that Rucka made her black... and Azzarello made her white...

Re: Rucka's "Artemis". That wasn't Artemis. The black goddess with the bow and arrows was Demeter. I know it doesn't make any sense, but that was who she was. Rucka's Olympic pantheon didn't have an Artemis.

[CRaymond]

I'd combine her with elements of Azzarello's Aleka, Rucka's Io, Morrison's Mala, and toss in helpings of WildCATs' Zealot, Stormwatch's Amaze, give her a century of experience and connections throughout like The League of Assassins, Bialya, and Kobra, and change her focus away from being a deadly assassins to an Amazon magical metal-bender Weaponsmith, with golden apple-given immortality, super senses, and super physiology. No flight, no invulnerability, no super speed, no superstrength.

She'd be the "ultra badass Wonder Woman", and have a sense of humor about it. She'd be Diana's ex from thier teenage years and be close but Diana would be uneasy with her lack of superheroic conscience.

I'd also put her on a premiere squad of the Doom Patrol, along with Apollo and Midnighter. They'd be super efficient like The Rock and Walberg in The Other Guys, but not really that creative or patient, where Robotman's team excels.

[Agent Z]

I'd combine her with elements of Azzarello's Aleka, Rucka's Io, Morrison's Mala, and toss in helpings of WildCATs' Zealot, Stormwatch's Amaze, give her a century of experience and connections throughout like The League of Assassins, Bialya, and Kobra, and change her focus away from being a deadly assassins to an Amazon magical metal-bender Weaponsmith, with golden apple-given immortality, super senses, and super physiology. No flight, no invulnerability, no super speed, no superstrength.

She'd be the "ultra badass Wonder Woman", and have a sense of humor about it. She'd be Diana's ex from thier teenage years and be close but Diana would be uneasy with her lack of superheroic conscience.

I'd also put her on a premiere squad of the Doom Patrol, along with Apollo and Midnighter. They'd be super efficient like The Rock and Walberg in The Other Guys, but not really that creative or patient, where Robotman's team excels.

Interesting choices. Except if Artemis is on the island how does she have all that experience? Or where those before the Amazons fled?

[CRaymond]

Interesting choices. Except if Artemis is on the island how does she have all that experience? Or where those before the Amazons fled?

Headfanon continuity that sends Dione(Diana), Niobe(Nubia), and Zanae(Zannah(Artemis)) to America in 1942.

One of these days I'll find the right thread to dump the whole idea in... It goes all the way back to Khufu and Shayera.

[Outside_85]

I'd combine her with elements of Azzarello's Aleka, Rucka's Io, Morrison's Mala, and toss in helpings of WildCATs' Zealot, Stormwatch's Amaze, give her a century of experience and connections throughout like The League of Assassins, Bialya, and Kobra, and change her focus away from being a deadly assassins to an Amazon magical metal-bender Weaponsmith, with golden apple-given immortality, super senses, and super physiology. No flight, no invulnerability, no super speed, no superstrength.

She'd be the "ultra badass Wonder Woman", and have a sense of humor about it. She'd be Diana's ex from thier teenage years and be close but Diana would be uneasy with her lack of superheroic conscience.

I'd also put her on a premiere squad of the Doom Patrol, along with Apollo and Midnighter. They'd be super efficient like The Rock and Walberg in The Other Guys, but not really that creative or patient, where Robotman's team excels.

Think thats... a little much to pile into one character, if I am honest, but its interesting you mention Io.

Actually I would probably revive and reuse Artemis' original Bana Mighdall origins. As in Diana finds the lost descendants of Antiope, sister of Hippolyta, because Themyscira is as lost the Bana as they were to Themyscira, they initially mistrust Diana as a kind of fraud and mistreats her to such a degree that Hermes (or another deity who has a vested interest in Diana's well being) grows angry and buries the city.
From the wreckage crawls Artemis, last and youngest of the Shim'Tar (the queens personal champion and the greatest warrior of the nation), who rallies the survivors and leads them to the offered sanctuary of Themyscira.

I kinda like to think of Artemis as a bit of a mirror of Diana in many ways in terms of personality, as Diana is very 'speak softly, and carry a big stick' in many cases, Artemis is more 'speak harshly, and brandish a big stick while doing it'. If you were to have the fortune to be trained by either of them, Diana would be the teacher you wanted to impress simply to hear her compliment you, but Artemis would be the one you want to impress just to make her eat her own words.
Said personality has to come from somewhere, so what if Artemis born in Bana Mighdall was taught from an early age that the greatest thing she could ever do in life was to become the Shim'Tar? Give her a goal she had to spend most of her life achieving, it would make her justifiably proud but not entirely blind to the achievements of others. However it does leave a bit of a sore spot with her when it comes to Diana, whom Artemis will see as a rival, and a spoiled on at that with all her gifts and divine linage while Artemis had swear, labor and sheer talent.
However, her rather blunt and often rude manners does mean she doesn't have that many friends, even among the Amazons, of which she is very aware of, but it does mean she grows very attached to those she has and she will come to their aid if she can, even providing a needing foot in the backside if thats whats needed.
Physically I would change one thing about her, keep all her other visual features, but make her short... maybe only coming up to Diana's shoulder. Simply to add another psychological angle to Artemis' mannerisms; she's dedicated to her craft and to retain her title and the top-knot hair-style... partly to compensate for her own lack of height... you could play with this by her having another very large friend, like Aleka or another Bana survivor of her own age. (I have it in my head she grew up alongside one that suffered from gigantism... would sort of make them the Colossus and Wolverine of Bana Mighdall).
And to top it off, make her competitive, Artemis lives and breathes for the chance to test herself against worthy opponents, especially those Diana may have mentioned positively... so you might one day have the short and temperamental Artemis getting into a fight with Big Barda or Orion simply for the challenge.

And returning to Io, she should be the counterpoint to Artemis. While Artemis comes off as very sullen and closed off until you really get to know her, Io should be very open about meeting outsiders and hearing of their world. Since I figure Io should be an inventor, an oddball thats always tinkering with something new, but stuck in a society that prefers not to change. And since Artemis would have the humor of a rock, Io would have a very childish sense of humor... like sabotaging a chair leg before someone has to use it.
For the sense of story however it should be underlined that Io and Artemis share a grudging respect for one another professionally, but they aren't exactly friends. What brings the two together is Diana or someone else who's befriended both.

[Agent Z]

Think thats... a little much to pile into one character, if I am honest, but its interesting you mention Io.

Actually I would probably revive and reuse Artemis' original Bana Mighdall origins. As in Diana finds the lost descendants of Antiope, sister of Hippolyta, because Themyscira is as lost the Bana as they were to Themyscira, they initially mistrust Diana as a kind of fraud and mistreats her to such a degree that Hermes (or another deity who has a vested interest in Diana's well being) grows angry and buries the city.
From the wreckage crawls Artemis, last and youngest of the Shim'Tar (the queens personal champion and the greatest warrior of the nation), who rallies the survivors and leads them to the offered sanctuary of Themyscira.

I kinda like to think of Artemis as a bit of a mirror of Diana in many ways in terms of personality, as Diana is very 'speak softly, and carry a big stick' in many cases, Artemis is more 'speak harshly, and brandish a big stick while doing it'. If you were to have the fortune to be trained by either of them, Diana would be the teacher you wanted to impress simply to hear her compliment you, but Artemis would be the one you want to impress just to make her eat her own words.
Said personality has to come from somewhere, so what if Artemis born in Bana Mighdall was taught from an early age that the greatest thing she could ever do in life was to become the Shim'Tar? Give her a goal she had to spend most of her life achieving, it would make her justifiably proud but not entirely blind to the achievements of others. However it does leave a bit of a sore spot with her when it comes to Diana, whom Artemis will see as a rival, and a spoiled on at that with all her gifts and divine linage while Artemis had swear, labor and sheer talent.
However, her rather blunt and often rude manners does mean she doesn't have that many friends, even among the Amazons, of which she is very aware of, but it does mean she grows very attached to those she has and she will come to their aid if she can, even providing a needing foot in the backside if thats whats needed.
Physically I would change one thing about her, keep all her other visual features, but make her short... maybe only coming up to Diana's shoulder. Simply to add another psychological angle to Artemis' mannerisms; she's dedicated to her craft and to retain her title and the top-knot hair-style... partly to compensate for her own lack of height... you could play with this by her having another very large friend, like Aleka or another Bana survivor of her own age. (I have it in my head she grew up alongside one that suffered from gigantism... would sort of make them the Colossus and Wolverine of Bana Mighdall).
And to top it off, make her competitive, Artemis lives and breathes for the chance to test herself against worthy opponents, especially those Diana may have mentioned positively... so you might one day have the short and temperamental Artemis getting into a fight with Big Barda or Orion simply for the challenge.

And returning to Io, she should be the counterpoint to Artemis. While Artemis comes off as very sullen and closed off until you really get to know her, Io should be very open about meeting outsiders and hearing of their world. Since I figure Io should be an inventor, an oddball thats always tinkering with something new, but stuck in a society that prefers not to change. And since Artemis would have the humor of a rock, Io would have a very childish sense of humor... like sabotaging a chair leg before someone has to use it.
For the sense of story however it should be underlined that Io and Artemis share a grudging respect for one another professionally, but they aren't exactly friends. What brings the two together is Diana or someone else who's befriended both.

This mostly sounds good though I'm not too fond of the idea of the other Bana being killed by an Olympian. Sets up too much bad blood.

[Outside_85]

This mostly sounds good though I'm not too fond of the idea of the other Bana being killed by an Olympian. Sets up too much bad blood.

Well, that was how Bana Mighdall eventually ended up Anyways I was thinking Artemis lead a 'small' group of survivors (only up to about a thousand) who were willing to settle on Themyscira and simply chase off those who would make war on Themyscira. As in Artemis' group would be the ones wise enough to know the actions of an Olympian is not those of an Amazon (the inhumanity of the Olympians would be to the Bana ingraved in the memory of the demands Antiope rejected), foreign as she may be. (This again ties into WML's original tale where Artemis was opposed to idea that they would try and take Themyscira from their sisters.)

[CRaymond]

I can see where you would be overwhelmed with the idea of pushing everything that each of those characters is into the Artemis position, but I'm being very choosy with elements.

I feel Diana needs an age peer Amazon who grew up with her on Themyscira, competed with in studies and athletics and arts, and develop the feelings of a first crush. That's the Aleka and Mala parts.

I'm omitting the Bana Mighdallian origin, as I think it's an easy and cheap way to "Other" a dissenting voice or minority tribe on Themyscira. Instead, she's the daughter of an Amazon smith. In another thread, Agent Z asked me if I'd considered Amazonian magical specialties. To that end, I thought about having a mix of antiquated technologies with mystical sorcery, "blacksmithing" with mythical metal like adamant. Diana pursued healing purple magics, Zanae(Artemis) excelled at metallurgy and weaponscrafting. She's a prodigy at crafting atom-cleaving blades. That's the Io part.

I'm ditching the name Artemis as well, as its unnecessarily confusing with the very prominent goddess, as well as being a cheap "mirror name" of Diana. Instead I'm combining Zealot's Kherubim name Zannah with Perseus' mother's name Danae to make a unique Themysciran name Zanae. That's the Zealot part.

Since this character arrives in Mans World in 1940 with a Slytherin demeanor, I'm going to have her travel and get involved with worldwide affairs as a mercenary, sometimes working with Diana, sometimes against her. Zanae is ultimately self-centered and driven by boredom and challenge. Among the teams she works with is the integrated Stormwatch creators of Apollo and Midnighter. That's the Amaze part.

[Vinsanity]

I'm cool with a rival to Wonder Woman and part of RHATO. Wouldn't mind seeing her branch out later.