Tomasi and Gleason interview with Comicbook.Com

[Robotman]

As all good things are.

Kidding, for those who are sarcasm-challenged.



Ive considered that, actually, and I think it might be part of the overall equation. For example, if Scott Snyder had published Unchained back in the 00's, it still wouldn't have been the best thing ever, but it would have meshed better with the Superman of the time and likely be seen as a better story. A big part of the critics' issue with that story is that Superman doesnt act like Superman....unless we were talking about post-Crisis.

I think that, like a lot of fans (myself included at times) writers are prone to see bigger differences in Nuperman than actually exist, and that can cause some dissonance in the writing, apathy in the writer, and a clash of expectations for the fans. So yes, I think its entirely possible that DC decided to roll back the clock because writing a younger, more brash Superman goes against the instincts of a lot of writers who have been around for a minute.

However....they did the same thing in 1986 and writers adapted. And, really, they did so fairly quickly. So while I suspect its part of the equation (especially considering that Johns does not get Nuperman even as much as he gets Superdad, which is still not at all) I hope its a small part of the equation. But it might be designed to attract different writers as well....though I have a hard time seeing guys like Ewing or Hickman saying "No, this new Superman is too reckless! I cant write him!"

Really, one evening reading pre-Crisis would be all anyone needs to get into the mindset of Nuperman.



Yeah the company crumbled and I lost the chances at a Kubert art school scholarship I was depending on to pay my way.

Fun story; Kubert himself did my entrance interview. Super nice guy, and it was all I could do to keep my cool. But I impressed him enough to be admitted...if only Marvel hadnt sucked so much back then, I'd have been studying under some of the best in the commercial art field.



Well, is anyone, regardless of age, interested in reading this kind of continuity clusterf**k, outside of the people who are just happy to get "their" guy back?

But you've hit on a pretty crucial point, and one I actually brought up in another thread just a bit ago. DC, and Superman especially, relies on that backbone of hardcore readers who dont leave no matter what. And most of those readers are, as you say, not exactly spring chickens. So what is DC going to do as years pass and those readers leave and are not replaced by new ones? DC is breeding Superman to extinction by not successfully appealing to younger readers. Its a tough spot to be in, especially since this problem has been growing for decades already, but with Superman especially it just might be a fatal flaw in marketing/production.

I wonder if this is the sort of thing that lead to the death of the Phantom, Zorro, and the Shadow? They never really evolved or grew, and ended up failing to appeal to younger demographics by not taking advantage of the ebb and flow of cultural shift. Is DC making the same mistake with Superman? I think you'd almost have to accept that they are, and the only hope the character has is smarter management coming in to save him.

By the way DC, my offer of smarter management still stands. Give me a call, I'll fix this mess for you. Not for your sake, but for the sake of my kids; I dont want them growing up in a world without Superman.

Man that is a depressing thought. More so because it's become evident that DC has no idea what to do with the character or how to market him. They're currently trying to appeal to the older fans who left at the start of the New 52. On the surface it's not a great idea to turn away from the next generation of fans and focus on the older ones. It's almost like they're accepting the fact that Superman has trouble appealing to younger readers and have thrown in the towel. Maybe they'll pull it off and the story will revitalize the character. But if this Superdad thing fails it's going to fail hard. I'm sure a lot of new readers see Rebirth as a good time to jump into DC Comics. DC has turned Superman into a convoluted mess and in no way is he new reader friendly. Tomasi is a pretty good writer, but not great. I'm really curious to see if he can pull this off.
Of course we won't know if Superdad Rebirth worked for at least a year when the relaunch hype winds down.

[NYCER]

By the way, is this "let's connect the continuity dots" thing really entertaining, after all?

I mean, yeah, when COIE came, part of the fun was even understanding what was canon and what was not. Or, better to say, it was a problem, but some great writers were able to use this element at their own advantage, by building very complex and interesting storylines on it (Starman, Hawkman, etc). It's not that postCOIE universe was perfect (even if I still think that some elements of it, like the JSA in the 1930s, were great additions which didn't take anything away from Superman), but ultimately it gave more than it got. I understand the reason for creating a unified universe and I think that, all in all, it created lots of opportunities for great stories.

Right now, it's just a mess. They played the reboot/retcon card so many times that literally nobody can understand what is canon and what is not. Apart from the fact that, as I already said multiple times, the involvement of Watchmen is hypocritical, distracting, completely unnecessary and doesn't make sense storywise, DC continuity is irreparably, completely broken. Did anyone notice how many factors are at work? We have : 1- Resurrected characters; 2- Forgotten characters; 3- Amnesiac characters; 4- Doppelganger characters; 5- Rejuvenated characters; 6- Retconned characters. Am I forgetting anything? To me, this is a pretty obvious proof that there isn't a real plan behind all of this. They just put a lot of things in motion and they will try to make sense of them all as time goes by, but the mess is so huge and it will take so much time to be amended that I really don't understand how someone could find it entertaining at all.

And oh, please, enough with things like "It happened, but not in the exact same way we remembered!" or "The characters just remember it in a different way", or "We had darkness, now we have hope!", or anything along these lines. These are not creative ideas; they are just cheap tricks which a publisher can use a couple of times in its history, not on a friggin' regular basis.

Agreed. Though it didn't last long, one post-CRISIS book I really enjoyed was YOUNG ALL STARS by Roy Thomas. I didn't even mind so much the retconning of Lyta Trevor's origin due to the erasure of the Earth-2 Wonder Woman from continuity, for example. (Of course she would later return in INFINITE CRISIS but that's a different discussion).

Bottom line is, you're 100% on target and DC's continuity is an absolute disaster. DC has pressed the retcon and reboot buttons one time too many and it is now anything but entertaining. It's irritating. And wondering whether my collection has been rendered obsolete or not again(!!!) is the least of my issues with the company. It's just not worth investing money and especially time on DC's products given how its fatally flawed business plan (assuming DC even has a workable one) and its adherence to gimmickry over creativity churn out mess after mess after mess.

[Ascended]

I honestly can't even begin to fathom how enthused I would be if DC ever came to these boards and decided to give you the chance good sir .

Thanks man. But who is to say that my ideas would take hold any better than anyone else's? Or that I'd be able to pull that extra level of creativity out of my creators? I mean, other than my....um....obvious brilliance, anyway.

Id actually market myself as part of my initial campaign. "The fan made good" sort of thing. Play up that angle and get other fans into it, if only to see how badly I fail.

Well I just used them as a hypothetical examples, but I do think it's not to out there for them to say "he's not really the guy I that I know". That's basically what Morrison said at the end of his run in an interview. He acknowledged the merits of the direction at the time, but he simply said it's not his guy. Maybe that's why his run was such a pulled back look on mainly the concept (though he did a great job with the set up for characteristics)

I know you were just using them as examples. I was too. I think you might have a point in that a more familiar Superman might be more appealing to writers. I think that would depend on the kind of writers DC is trying to attract to the character.

I have nothing to say except that the Shadow is totally still going and in fact will have a phenomenal comic drop tomorrow.

Yeah, but he's being published by a small indie company and has become a....ahem....shadow....of his former self and a lot of people dont even know he's still around anymore. Ive loved a lot of the stuff they've done with him in recent years but he's not selling a lot of t-shirts you know? Thats what I fear Superman is becoming. Though, I suppose the upside is that his stories might get good again.

Seriously? I'd really love to see some art :-)

Maybe I'll post some of my old stuff someday, but I havent picked up a pencil in years, outside of a handful of personal projects and our Super-trust emails (I need to scan those).

Man that is a depressing thought. More so because it's become evident that DC has no idea what to do with the character or how to market him. They're currently trying to appeal to the older fans who left at the start of the New 52. On the surface it's not a great idea to turn away from the next generation of fans and focus on the older ones. It's almost like they're accepting the fact that Superman has trouble appealing to younger readers and have thrown in the towel. Maybe they'll pull it off and the story will revitalize the character. But if this Superdad thing fails it's going to fail hard. I'm sure a lot of new readers see Rebirth as a good time to jump into DC Comics. DC has turned Superman into a convoluted mess and in no way is he new reader friendly. Tomasi is a pretty good writer, but not great. I'm really curious to see if he can pull this off.
Of course we won't know if Superdad Rebirth worked for at least a year when the relaunch hype winds down.

Given the double-shipping, I think the hype might die down in six-to-eight months. We'll see how much a new paint job has managed to hide the clunker that DC's Super-office has become then.