Most of Marvel's comics are really bad right now

[SSJMorales]

How funny that I should only vote with my money when it aligns with your preferences. No, thanks. I will continue doing what I do. And yes, I do take credit for Spider-Man publishing the way it is today. I complained about it for years, very vocally and I said "Marvel do this if you want more money." It took them a while, but Amazing is now a consistent seller above what the sister titles would have brought in. DC is following suit in Rebirth and I am very happy about that.

Umm, if you want to take credit for being the reasoning behind any of Marvels decisions making, please have at it. Regardless people complained about the multitude of Spidey titles for years, I've also heard people complain about Spider-Man(and other titles) double shipping for last few years as well. I'm happy we now do get to have Silk, [Miles]Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, Web Warriors where they aren't parker stories and we can following different and new characters. Either way lets not pretend there aren't multiple spidey titles running currently, Amazing, Amazing.x, Spidey for just Peter Parker. International Iron-Man isn't so much different than having those, as it has been mostly flashbacks so far, with the active story relating to those flashbacks. At least both those books have same author at least.

[Shishard]

I feel very similar to what you do. It seems Marvel made this big to do and bang all new planet, all new world all new.....yeah it was so all new I lost interest. All new characters with old names before the ANAD I did not care for ( chick Thor, Captain Falcon), most new characters after ANAD with old names ( who the? Hulk)....still do not care. Then those that are recognizable ( old Cap, ogan) act all different and so I have been pushed out and into the old mans club over at DC.

[numberthirty]

DC has just done with rebirth exactly what I want - a smaller number of series, published more frequently, tighter continuity, and returning Action/Detective to original numbering. I want to see Marvel do that.

How likely is that possibility?

I'm also hearing -

- Creator Exclusive
- Writer's Retreats


It seems like this is the opposite of what most folks in the thread are talking about. What exactly does a creator being exclusive really have to do with a book being good or not?

[kaimaciel]

I was reading Thor and Loki Agent of Asgard. I've dropped Thor (I don't care about Jane) and I'm not exactly pleased with how they're dealing with Loki after a 5 year arc of redemption. I'm not sure if I'll buy Vote Loki. I'll see what it's about and then I'll decide.

I'll probably pick Civil War II because the art is stellar. And if Kaine Parker shows up, I'll definitely buy the title too.

[randomengine]

How likely is that possibility?

I'm also hearing -

- Creator Exclusive
- Writer's Retreats


It seems like this is the opposite of what most folks in the thread are talking about. What exactly does a creator being exclusive really have to do with a book being good or not?

It means that the talent is an in-house talent and placed on Marvel's most high-profile books/properties. In-house talent is most likely to be on the biggest books. So when looking at X-Men books, you have Extraordinary which is written by in-house talent and Uncanny which is not, it sends the signal that Extraordinary is the primary book.

Amazing Spider-Man - Slott
Captain America (was getting Sam Wilson, now getting Steve Rogers) - Spencer
Invincible Iron Man - Bendis
Mighty Thor - Aaron
Totally Awesome Hulk - Pak
Daredevil - Soule
All-New, All-Different Avengers - Waid
[Fantastic Four] - being replaced by Uncanny Inhumans and Guardians of the Galaxy - Soule and Bendis
Extraordinary X-Men - Lemire

I think of these only Pak is not exclusive, though it seems his DC work has completely dried up.

[randomengine]

I refuse to purchase International Iron Man. If they want me to read an Iron Man story by the same writer as Invincible, they need to publish that story INSIDE Invincible instead of forcing me to buy a secondary book. I don't care if you have to double-ship the damn thing or tell the story in a back-up. Marvel, take the hint, I will not buy the secondary titles.

[numberthirty]

It means that the talent is an in-house talent and placed on Marvel's most high-profile books/properties. In-house talent is most likely to be on the biggest books. So when looking at X-Men books, you have Extraordinary which is written by in-house talent and Uncanny which is not, it sends the signal that Extraordinary is the primary book.

That's what I'm talking about.

While you seem pretty focused on what the "Name" book is, lots of the fans on the "X" board seem to think that Uncanny is the superior book.

[randomengine]

That's what I'm talking about.

While you seem pretty focused on what the "Name" book is, lots of the fans on the "X" board seem to think that Uncanny is the superior book.

Superior in what way? Subjective quality? I don't care. Extraordinary is the primary book.

[numberthirty]

I refuse to purchase International Iron Man. If they want me to read an Iron Man story by the same writer as Invincible, they need to publish that story INSIDE Invincible instead of forcing me to buy a secondary book. I don't care if you have to double-ship the damn thing or tell the story in a back-up. Marvel, take the hint, I will not buy the secondary titles.

Again, how likely is it that Marvel will let any one fan dictate what they release and how it is released?

[numberthirty]

Superior in what way? Subjective quality? I don't care. Extraordinary is the primary book.

If you are going to let some arbitrary "primary" designation dictate that you buy a book that lots of dedicated "X" fans think is a lesser title, that might explain a lot of why you are not happy as a reader?

[Batowl]

I like all the books except Moon girl.

[Kao]

Again, how likely is it that Marvel will let any one fan dictate what they release and how it is released?

Maybe because he made them change Spider-Man? He has the juice now.

[Raye]

I see most of you didn't get the point.

Yes, I do get the longest running series. They tend to have the best art and best writing. I have been reading comics more than a couple of years, so I do understand that crisis are manufactured, but Civil War II is especially egregious. The original Civil War made sense in a way and came organically from what came before. This time we have an Inhuman created for the sole purpose of creating a problem.

My point is that Marvel's biggest books, the ones that stick around and don't get cancelled due to low sales, are not very good today as they have in the past. Greg Pak's original run on Hulk was legendary, this one is off to a ehhhhhhhhhh start. Waid's Avengers is all over the damn place in terms of quality. Extraordinary X-Men and Amazing Spider-Man are probably the best and most consistent. Uncanny X-Men is not the flagship X-Men book, I don't care if it has the name. They wouldn't give the flagship book to Cullen Bunn, the human comic-writing sweatshop, nor fill the roster of their flagship book with so many secondary and tertiary X-Men.

I follow the long-running series, that's what I do. I will not buy any series that won't last decades in a linear fashion (I have been daisy-chaining series together as Marvel keeps relaunching). That's not what I want to make this thread about. This thread is about why the best-of-the-best, the books Marvel puts all their best creative on and revolve their line around, why those books just aren't as good today as they have been in the past.

Oh, we get the point. We just don't agree with it. The industry has changed, your attempt to make it fit old models is just you being stubborn. The best selling books are not automatically the BEST books. The smaller books are often way better than the bigger books because the creative team has more freedom to get creative and take chances, and they aren't as bogged down with editorial micro managing. The best selling books aren't necessarily selling the best because they are good, but due to fans like you who are buying out of character/book loyalty.

Actually I agree with your sentiment, but not in the way you all claim. I want Marvel to return to long-numbered series and stop publishing the lesser titles. If those titles are good, I want that quality transferred to the books I actually want to read. The fact that I refuse to buy the secondary books is voting with my dollar. I want them to be cancelled so that Marvel focuses on their top books. The whole concept of publishing only Amazing Spider-Man instead of Spectacular, Web of, and adjectiveless was MY idea, expressed on these forums years before they started doing it. The reason Marvel double-ships is because of readers like me who want only the most popular characters and if they want more of my money they need only ship those series more often. So yes, I am voting with my dollar, just not in the same way you all are.

DC has just done with rebirth exactly what I want - a smaller number of series, published more frequently, tighter continuity, and returning Action/Detective to original numbering. I want to see Marvel do that.

Well that's a pretty selfish attitude. You are not the only reader who matters, everyone deserves to have books they enjoy, but that means there need to be enough books to cover a wide array of tastes. If they can sell enough to support themselves, there is nothing wrong with that,the more the merrier. Also, the more books there are on the shelves, the more need there will be for finding new talent, the next big name could be getting their start with Marvel or DC on one of those smaller books you're so determined to ignore.

If Rebirth is you bag, great, go read it. But I actually think it's good that Marvel and DC can appeal to different types of readers, I think it would be unhealthy for the industry if Marvel and DC were too similar.

How funny that I should only vote with my money when it aligns with your preferences. No, thanks. I will continue doing what I do. And yes, I do take credit for Spider-Man publishing the way it is today. I complained about it for years, very vocally and I said "Marvel do this if you want more money." It took them a while, but Amazing is now a consistent seller above what the sister titles would have brought in. DC is following suit in Rebirth and I am very happy about that.

HAH! Trust me, you, personally, are not even on Marvel's radar. At all. They do listen to fans sometimes, sure, but only if there's a whole bunch of them asking for the same thing. One fan whining at them will accomplish nothing. We have no idea if the books being the way they are right now is due to widespread fan demand or if it's just where it ended up. To me, it feels like the latter.

[TooFlyToFail]

I have been collecting each major character/title that Marvel publishes for several years now. This is the first moment in that time that I am absolutely disappointed.

I get the big 10 titles:

Amazing Spider-Man
Captain America (was getting Sam Wilson, now getting Steve Rogers)
Invincible Iron Man
Mighty Thor
Totally Awesome Hulk
Daredevil
All-New, All-Different Avengers
[Fantastic Four] - being replaced by Uncanny Inhumans and Guardians of the Galaxy
Extraordinary X-Men

This is the first time I have been both disappointed and bored of every single one of them. Usually one of them shines, but something is going wrong over there at Marvel. This Civil War II thing just feels like manufactured crisis and not any kind of organic storytelling, it involves the fate of low-level characters like War Machine, She-Hulk and Captain Marvel - who I don't care about and shouldn't be the center of a line-wide event.

Now before you criticize my pull list and tell me how awesome the lesser-selling titles are, don't. I don't change my pull list. I buy the heavy hitters and roll the dice on quality. That's what I enjoy, but Marvel is really dropping the ball on the quality. Yet another damn relaunch is not going to cut it. They need to work on some good long-form storytelling and the recent interview where Brevoort is like "We need more impact now" totally ignores the basic principles of storytelling - you need small moments to make the big ones more meaningful. Be prepared for a lot of noise signifying nothing.

Is anyone else having a hard time enjoying Marvel lately or is it just me?

Daredevil is good, so I don't agree there. You're problem is that you picked the poor books.

International Iron Man is the better I'M title.

No Black Panther?

Bunn's UXM is the X-team book to read, as it actually addresses the state of mutantkind.

No Moon Knight? Lemire is a master solo book writer, but a mediocre team book writer.

Neither of the Wolverine books?

Nighthawk?

Squadron Supreme, despite being just okay since the first issue, is, honestly, worth reading more than ANAD and New Avengers. Uncanny Avengers is pretty good too.

The Ultimates is the best Avengers book by leaps, and bounds, tho.

No Hawkeye?

No Power Man and Iron Fist?

Spider-Man (Miles Morales)?

Nova?

Ms. Marvel?

Dude, it's your fault you're reading poor titles, so, yes, I will diss your pull list.

[randomengine]

Umm, if you want to take credit for being the reasoning behind any of Marvels decisions making, please have at it. Regardless people complained about the multitude of Spidey titles for years, I've also heard people complain about Spider-Man(and other titles) double shipping for last few years as well. I'm happy we now do get to have Silk, [Miles]Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, Web Warriors where they aren't parker stories and we can following different and new characters. Either way lets not pretend there aren't multiple spidey titles running currently, Amazing, Amazing.x, Spidey for just Peter Parker. International Iron-Man isn't so much different than having those, as it has been mostly flashbacks so far, with the active story relating to those flashbacks. At least both those books have same author at least.

I didn't just complain or whine. I actually wrote out an entire plan for them to follow, which included the idea that they should publish weekly or close to weekly and include rotating art teams to cover the load. I said they should do it for more than just Spider-Man. This was a couple of years before they actually started doing it, exactly as I described they should do it. Someone at Marvel read my post. Probably Steve Wacker as he implemented it almost exactly as I described it and was known to frequent the board at that time.

Another element to my plan was to stop publishing one-off mini-series to tell certain stories and instead fold those stories into the main books. This was at a time when Marvel published one-off minis all the time. Again, they did that exact thing with the .x issues they are doing with Amazing Spider-Man instead of selling it as a standalone mini. Most of the standalone minis had disappeared for years after I said that. These are my ideas expressed forcefully on this board, specific ideas, years before Marvel adopted those ideas. Believe whatever you want, but you know when you consistently say something and it happens, someone is paying attention to you.