SUPERMAN REBIRTH #1 Discussion (SPOILERS AHEAD)

[Francisco]

Eh that easily could have been glossed over. Superman and Lois Lane are synonymous with one another. Just have Clark and Diana end things and Clark and Lois realize they love each other and bam. Move forward, no convoluted mumbo jumbo.

Make a 10 years jump and walla... New Superboy alla charte. But then Damien would be 23 years old instead of 13

[Tayswift]

They say at the end in which book the story will follow.When they crossover it's usually in this order: It starts with Superman -> Action Comics -> story concludes in the next Superman book

No, it will be separate stories not the triangle format

[Flash Gordon]

I wonder if new52 fans would keep buying if this happened. The timeline of 10 years still very short span for a kid with 10 years

True, but they could have had Damian hang out with an adopted son. Lor-Zod or Kon-El, with a new name. Same dynamic for them, just Superman's son or daughter would be adopted like he was.

Down the road Lois and Clark could have their own son or daughter.

[vasir12]

Tl;DR

This was....for what it was, it was well written. Tomasi seems to have hit on Lana's voice, as established by Pak, pretty solidly. His Superdad is calm, confident, and collected, with a sense of tempered steel, which are all aspects I want to see in a older, mature Superman (Grounded, this was not, thankfully). The plot itself, with both Superdad and Lana going after Clark's ashes, plays well enough both as a story in and of itself and also as a summary of what's been happening.

The Dearth/Return re-telling easily could have been half as long and still done the job. I felt like that was an awful lot of panel time to waste on something that boils down to "I think Clark will return because I died once too, and I got better." But otherwise, this was fairly well paced, if not as dense on content as I'd have liked (a problem with the industry as a whole). The art was solid, as usual from Mahnke (spelling?). I think I'd have to give the issue a 7 out of 10. Decent for what it was but relatively uninspired and slow moving.

The problem I had here isnt so much what was in this issue, but what was not in the issue.

I picked this up to see what the new status quo would be going forward. Will Superdad and family move to Metropolis? Will Superdad (I am having the hardest time calling him Clark) decide to approach Jimmy and Lois, Steel, and all of Superman's friends and allies (obviously we know he ends up with the League). Does he try to fool the world into believing that he's the "real" Superman? What sort of situation are we looking at here? That's what I wanted to see, so I could decide whether or not to give this direction a chance. I didnt need details and I didnt need those moments spoiled, since those should be happening in the regular book, but I wanted to know what to expect going forward. And DC failed to deliver. I know nothing more about post-Rebirth Superman today than I knew yesterday. So the issue failed to advance the plot in any meaningful way. Sure, we learn that Nuperman cant return the same way Superdad did, but we know that Superdad is the main guy for the foreseeable future so that's not news. We have some nice interactions with Lana and Clark is put to rest, but those are minimal things. We learn that Lana knows where the Fortress is....but again, that's a pretty minor thing. So I burned 3 bucks on a story that didnt advance the plot or give me an idea of where its all going. And Im not really a fan of that.

Yeah, I was actually disappointed in that. No Jon. No Lois. All we get is that he seems to have decided to be Superman again but we already knew that.

[vasir12]

True, but they could have had Damian hang out with an adopted son. Lor-Zod or Kon-El, with a new name. Same dynamic for them, just Superman's son or daughter would be adopted like he was.

Down the road Lois and Clark could have their own son or daughter.

I think they wanted the biological sons. Otherwise Jon wouldn't be anything special. The title of "Son of Superman" is a powerful thing. Still, it is clear that they REALLY wanted Jon and they wanted Lois and Clark together for him. Was this the best way to go about it? Eh, I'll have to see what this revelation is and whether they can stick to their guns on keeping the mythos changed a little for the foreseeable future.

[ChargerKB]

Lapsed DC fan here. I picked up this issue with only a basic working knowledge of recent happenings in the Super-books and it did a good enough job of catching me up. It looks like this book will cling to the 'default' Superman mythos: the movie-esque fortress, mainstays like Lana, etc. I did have some issues with the art - especially Superman's face (though that could be the beard...this may be the first time I wished a fictional character would shave!) but nothing that would hinder me from picking up the 'real' issue #1 when it hits the shelves. I only wish we could've gotten a glimpse of the new Superman outfit that's featured on the cover.

I had no qualms with Mr. Tomasi's writing with one exception. In the sequence in the Fortress of Solitude, the two AI robots tell Clark and Lana that the Creation Matrix is not there. Superman doesn't even respond to this and whenever the old (or would it be new?) Superman begins talking via hologram then Superman makes the definitive statement that Superman can't be brought back. I get that the statue of Ma and Pa Kent made him realize that New 52 Superman would probably prefer to be buried next to his parents and not poked and prodded by the now-current Superman, but what if Lana is right and the Creation Matrix is just somewhere else? Of course, the real reason Superman abandoned his mission to resurrect his counterpart is because this book obviously wants to move forward and not be a book about one Superman trying to bring back another, but Superman just sort of giving up over the course of one panel seemed odd and anti-climactic to me.

Not the greatest issue on the racks this week, but I enjoyed it. Looking forward to Superman's 'real' debut in the weeks to come!

[Tayswift]

True, but they could have had Damian hang out with an adopted son. Lor-Zod or Kon-El, with a new name. Same dynamic for them, just Superman's son or daughter would be adopted like he was.

Down the road Lois and Clark could have their own son or daughter.

well kon-el was the clone of a future lois and clark son, I think it was a bad decision that it was never explored

[Sacred Knight]

True, but they could have had Damian hang out with an adopted son. Lor-Zod or Kon-El, with a new name. Same dynamic for them, just Superman's son or daughter would be adopted like he was.

Down the road Lois and Clark could have their own son or daughter.

All better ideas than what they went with. But. that bridge has clearly already been crossed and closed now With Superdad back and not just in a contained mini-series role, should they bring the New 52 Superman back, he won't be getting with Lois or having any kids anytime soon. He'd continue to be the young, bachelor Superman. Which would be more than fine with me but who knows when or if they get there.

[Ascended]

Make a 10 years jump and walla... New Superboy alla charte. But then Damien would be 23 years old instead of 13

If DC had come to me and said "We want Clark and Lois to be a couple and have a son Damien's age, make it happen!" I think all I'd do is let the Clark-Diana relationship end like we saw during Truth, then have....let's see.....Per Degaton, if he were available, or the Time Trapper, or Chronos, or even Myx, show up and have both Clark and Lois thrown into the future. They spend...oh, a dozen years there; they get married, have Jon, and then eventually return to the present day in the next issue. No time has passed from the rest of the DCU's perspective so you dont have to explain where they were. They're older, but not so much it becomes an impossible hurdle to jump, and if people witnessed the event they dont even need to come up with an excuse for it or try to hide it with makeup.

Done. You get all the maturity and character growth they're looking for, you get Jon, you get Clois, without any of this needless continuity wanking.

On top of that, you can say that the years they spent in the future were peaceful and quiet....for the most part. Then you have a timeframe to spin future plots out of that doesnt actually impact anything. You can reveal that, at one point in those years, Clark helped fight off a Khund invasion. Or he ran into a time traveling Jonah Hex. Or whatever. Or you can ignore those years completely. Either way, it doesnt matter, because the only narrative function those years serve is to get you to older Superman and Jon.

If DC wants to avoid time travel for fear of it contradicting plans in other parts of the DCU, you drop Clois into a pocket dimension where time moves differently. Same result. Lots of different villains to use for that too; Myx, Ultra-Man, hell, even a STAR Labs experiment gone wrong would do the job, or a Phantom Zone projector, or any number of things.

[vasir12]

If DC had come to me and said "We want Clark and Lois to be a couple and have a son Damien's age, make it happen!" I think all I'd do is let the Clark-Diana relationship end like we saw during Truth, then have....let's see.....Per Degaton, if he were available, or the Time Trapper, or Chronos, or even Myx, show up and have both Clark and Lois thrown into the future. They spend...oh, a dozen years there; they get married, have Jon, and then eventually return to the present day in the next issue. No time has passed from the rest of the DCU's perspective so you dont have to explain where they were. They're older, but not so much it becomes an impossible hurdle to jump, and if people witnessed the event they dont even need to come up with an excuse for it or try to hide it with makeup.

Done. You get all the maturity and character growth they're looking for, you get Jon, you get Clois, without any of this needless continuity wanking.

On top of that, you can say that the years they spent in the future were peaceful and quiet....for the most part. Then you have a timeframe to spin future plots out of that doesnt actually impact anything. You can reveal that, at one point in those years, Clark helped fight off a Khund invasion. Or he ran into a time traveling Jonah Hex. Or whatever. Or you can ignore those years completely. Either way, it doesnt matter, because the only narrative function those years serve is to get you to older Superman and Jon.

If DC wants to avoid time travel for fear of it contradicting plans in other parts of the DCU, you drop Clois into a pocket dimension where time moves differently. Same result. Lots of different villains to use for that too; Myx, Ultra-Man, hell, even a STAR Labs experiment gone wrong would do the job, or a Phantom Zone projector, or any number of things.

Perhaps... some version of this is the truth? This idea is nice though.

[Superlad93]

If DC had come to me and said "We want Clark and Lois to be a couple and have a son Damien's age, make it happen!" I think all I'd do is let the Clark-Diana relationship end like we saw during Truth, then have....let's see.....Per Degaton, if he were available, or the Time Trapper, or Chronos, or even Myx, show up and have both Clark and Lois thrown into the future. They spend...oh, a dozen years there; they get married, have Jon, and then eventually return to the present day in the next issue. No time has passed from the rest of the DCU's perspective so you dont have to explain where they were. They're older, but not so much it becomes an impossible hurdle to jump, and if people witnessed the event they dont even need to come up with an excuse for it or try to hide it with makeup.

Done. You get all the maturity and character growth they're looking for, you get Jon, you get Clois, without any of this needless continuity wanking.

On top of that, you can say that the years they spent in the future were peaceful and quiet....for the most part. Then you have a timeframe to spin future plots out of that doesnt actually impact anything. You can reveal that, at one point in those years, Clark helped fight off a Khund invasion. Or he ran into a time traveling Jonah Hex. Or whatever. Or you can ignore those years completely. Either way, it doesnt matter, because the only narrative function those years serve is to get you to older Superman and Jon.

If DC wants to avoid time travel for fear of it contradicting plans in other parts of the DCU, you drop Clois into a pocket dimension where time moves differently. Same result. Lots of different villains to use for that too; Myx, Ultra-Man, hell, even a STAR Labs experiment gone wrong would do the job, or a Phantom Zone projector, or any number of things.

Ah the Robot and Monster Girl (Invincible) spin on it. Not bad at all.

Just about the only way you do it without adopting or rebooting.

[andersonh1]

Indeed. Superdad will soon be Superman - a Superman no one on Earth-0 knows. It's gone beyond convoluted.

They don't know him at the moment. Since this is still the same post-Crisis Earth, just altered, I wouldn't be surprised to see people realize that they do, in fact, know him as the overall Rebirth storyline progresses.

As for me, I'm delighted to have the Superman I started reading back in 1988 back in the Superman titles. I put in a lot of years reading that character, and I won't miss the "impostor" Superman at all. I think the Truth arc had honestly ruined the character and written him into a corner, and there was really nothing else to do but revert to the older version of the character.

[Ascended]

Ah the Robot and Monster Girl (Invincible) spin on it. Not bad at all.

Just about the only way you do it without adopting or rebooting.

Pretty much.

I mean, its not overly original and pretty amateur, but it gets the job done without f**king continuity sideways. Im sure I could come up with something better given time, like perhaps Clois are torn out of the entire orrery of worlds by Nix Uotan because he needs them to combat the sentient mind-virus that is eating the Monitor's homeworld.

Okay, I suppose it wouldnt take that much time to think of something better than "pocket universe." Though if time were a consideration and DC wanted the whole thing done quickly, that's likely the best option, since its so cut and dry.

As for Truth writing Superman into a corner (@ andersonh1), I dont buy that. Theres no such thing. You can always get out of it. DC got Superman out of the electric powers through, literally, a benevolent act of the universe. It was literally a cosmic entity saying "Yknow what? Enough of this. Go back to normal, man! We're tired of the new powers!"

And the fallout from Truth is still there. Superman's identity is still public knowledge. Lois is still the woman who outed him. Superdad is no more able to return to a "normal" status quo than Nuperman was, and he's got even more going against him since he's a doppelganger from another universe with no connections to the Planet, Jimmy, Perry, or anyone else. If nothing else, this is just making that corner tighter and harder to escape from.

[Sacred Knight]

They don't know him at the moment. Since this is still the same post-Crisis Earth, just altered, I wouldn't be surprised to see people realize that they do, in fact, know him as the overall Rebirth storyline progresses.

As for me, I'm delighted to have the Superman I started reading back in 1988 back in the Superman titles. I put in a lot of years reading that character, and I won't miss the "impostor" Superman at all. I think the Truth arc had honestly ruined the character and written him into a corner, and there was really nothing else to do but revert to the older version of the character.

Nah. That's just silly. Not your preference, that's as respectable as anyone else's, but the idea that Truth wrote him into a corner that all but demanded this. To me that's just utter ridiculousness. You give him back his powers and voila, all is back to normal. Want the secret ID back? Mass mindwipe and voila, all is back to normal. There was nothing permanently damaging about that story outside of it just being a bad story. The story featured what devolved into a bad plot and some shoddy characterization along the way. I've just described more storylines in comics than one could count. One bad storyline doesn't ruin a character. A cumulative effect of problems over time can, but not just one individual bad tale in a vacuum.

[SplinteringHeart]

My mind is racing with all if this...I'm sure I can handle it though...I'm imagining Geoff Johns etc at DC looking at these threads and saying "wow, look it worked, we've got those fans brains working overtime on this....but we know the real score, hopefully they're coming with us all the way..."

Hopefully they just read the comics....

You know what, I'm thinking I might do an about face! Yes....if anyone's seen my posts recently you'll know I'm in the camp along with a notable band of posters on here that are dismayed at the death of Nuperman and reject acceptance of Superdad....we've been very vocal...

Reasons for this position have been, not exclusively, but mostly these: loved SM/WW "ship" and didn't want to lose it,...not interested in superpowered kids,...investment in Nuperman, what he stood for, this version of Superman, over 5 years,....and, very strongly, rock bottom morale over Superman particularly because of DC continuing to present continuity/multiverses/timeline issues and inconsistencies...

Of these I want to highlight the continuity etc point;

All those arguments about this still stand, and having a perspective that concentrates on these issues and arguing the case about them is valid and justified.....there are still so many anomalies, but an explanation of one of them has made me look again at this whole situation...I'll try and explain;

I like the explanation of Superdad being a survivor from a different continuity/timeline/world and being displaced into the present, current continuity etc...he is someone we know, but he's now in a different place, a world we're familiar with but he is not.....but this world is the world, this continuity etc is the platform we continue with...this makes the difference, importantly for me..

Now, the strength of the arguments about continuity etc are, conversely, precisely why we should go along with the baffling madness that is the convolution, continuity glitches etc, because that is just where the stories lie, just where the facets of the character(s) and development are to be explored.

We have a Superman we know, but a different world we know about, and they don‘t have to be mutually exclusive...the threads of convolution will continue to be explored, we've just got to keep on board and go with the flow, enjoy the ride and see where it/DC takes us....if we're interested in Superman..

We won't all have the iterations connected with Superman that we personally want or prefer..

Yes some of us will still be a bit miffed because we had it good with New52 and that's changed while others will be happy about the change, but we'll still all have a Superman and cast in situations of interest related to Superman fans...

We could just read the comics...

If you're interested in family dynamics and Superboy and the mysteries about that then following on from Lois & Clark ( which I didn't read) then go for Superman....or not if that doesn't appeal...

If you want more on Superdad as in some of his other facets separate to being a father go for Action Comics...

For his relationships with other supers go for Justice League or maybe Trinity...

For legacy Nuperman, or for her superheroics in her own right, read about NuLois, with Lana in Superwoman....

But Nuperman isn't coming back, I'm sure, not this side of another reboot!

There should be something for most fans of Superman in the new books, if we just go with it as we prefer, without expecting to get our individual perfect versions of events.

I reckon I will continue with Justice League after all, and I might dip into Action Comics and Superwoman, or just trade wait....my biggest problem is going to be acceptance or interest in the existence of Superboy, probably a bridge too far for me.

Cheers

Jon