Do you think the plan is to bring back New52 Superman

[13th Superman]

Superman #4 features a scene where Clark talks to the spirit of Jonathan for a brief period while under the influence of Kryptonite and a bunch of Kryptonian souls. Right before this scene however there's a hand reaching out to him, and its female, not male. Maybe its an artist's mistake, that it was supposed to be Jonathan's hand, but I'm wondering if it wasn't. That it was very much intended to be a woman's hand, Martha's, a subtle hint that this Clark's Martha is deceased as well. Which would be entirely significant because if his mother is gone as well as his father, then its proof his history is not what he believes it to be. Possibly another small hint that he is the New 52 Superman.

Wow really? That's a pretty big indicator of whether Superdad is something or someone else entirely or is in fact the New 52 Superman. Thanks for that bit of info. It's a small nugget of hope but I'll take it.

[adrikito]

Superman #4 features a scene where Clark talks to the spirit of Jonathan for a brief period while under the influence of Kryptonite and a bunch of Kryptonian souls. Right before this scene however there's a hand reaching out to him, and its female, not male. Maybe its an artist's mistake, that it was supposed to be Jonathan's hand, but I'm wondering if it wasn't. That it was very much intended to be a woman's hand, Martha's, a subtle hint that this Clark's Martha is deceased as well. Which would be entirely significant because if his mother is gone as well as his father, then its proof his history is not what he believes it to be. Possibly another small hint that he is the New 52 Superman.

They contradict themselves.. because I need an explanation to Convergence and Convergence Superman.. Then, where was superman pre-flashpoint? In this books, N52 Superman was captured by Brainiac.

Back with N52 Superman is easy... There same Clark Kent of the Batman/Superman annual 2 is here, and DC said, is not fake.. But they prefer this..

Jonathan Kent speaking with superdad... Some trick of the Erradicator... I remember Graves, all the JL deceived... Until Wonderwoman discovered that Trevor was alive..

Justice_League_Vol_2_9.jpg

The next madness to hear is that N52 Superman is an adult John, for this Oz train him(another bad thing, why N52 superman needed train?)..... and more stupid things for understand the rest.

[Kid A]

Good lord I am so out of the loop.

So New 52 Superman is just gone? But the rest of the New 52 DCU is still there?

I feel like I should be sad that they got rid N52 Superman, but then again the books were never that good outside of Morrison's run were they. It seemed like got everything right way back in 2011 when he debuted in a t-shirt and jeans, going back to his 1938 roots while simultaneously being more contemporary and cooler than ever. Then I dunno what happened, the whole Superman line just felt like a gigantic bureaucratic mess.

[Superlad93]

Superman #4 features a scene where Clark talks to the spirit of Jonathan for a brief period while under the influence of Kryptonite and a bunch of Kryptonian souls. Right before this scene however there's a hand reaching out to him, and its female, not male. Maybe its an artist's mistake, that it was supposed to be Jonathan's hand, but I'm wondering if it wasn't. That it was very much intended to be a woman's hand, Martha's, a subtle hint that this Clark's Martha is deceased as well. Which would be entirely significant because if his mother is gone as well as his father, then its proof his history is not what he believes it to be. Possibly another small hint that he is the New 52 Superman.

I think it was Lois' hand. If you go back to where she says to Bibo "something's wrong--they're in pain" you can actually see she has the same pink nails as the hand. She's also wearing the closest thing to the hands sleeve.

But I do think this Superman's mom is dead too. I think Jonathan's words about Clark now having his own family to protect mean something. It's the idea that he's got no Ma and Pa to show him how to be a dad. Tomasi made a point to say that Clark is now in the role of authority (aka he's Jon Kent) so it would spoil it a bit if Ma was still there to be the final word on things.

[SuperCrab]

Superman #4 features a scene where Clark talks to the spirit of Jonathan for a brief period while under the influence of Kryptonite and a bunch of Kryptonian souls. Right before this scene however there's a hand reaching out to him, and its female, not male. Maybe its an artist's mistake, that it was supposed to be Jonathan's hand, but I'm wondering if it wasn't. That it was very much intended to be a woman's hand, Martha's, a subtle hint that this Clark's Martha is deceased as well. Which would be entirely significant because if his mother is gone as well as his father, then its proof his history is not what he believes it to be. Possibly another small hint that he is the New 52 Superman.

Wouldn't Superman's mother (Either Superman) likely be dead as well because of either a) the alterations to the timeline from Flashpoint, b) the death of SuperDad's universe, or c) the ten years plus that have passed since SuperDad would have last seen her (She was old, older folks have a high mortality rate)?

I mean, in theory they are still in the new52 universe, right? The old universe is starting to reemerge, but Wally West was able to return because he was outside time when the event happened, and SuperDad was possibly shielded because he was on the Telos planet. We haven't seen anyone who was confirmed dead in the new52 pop back up and seen it chalked up to the universe just changing, have we? Honest question, because I stopped reading.

So, if SuperDad is Pre-Crisis Superman and talking to his own parents somehow in the afterlife, he might expect them to both be dead because of b and c. If he was talking to the new52 Superman's parents, he'd probably know that they were both dead because I assume he'd have looked it up at some point in his 10 years in hiding, or certainly would have now that he's taking a public role again.

My guess would be, and this is not having read the issue, but just my general hunch, that the editors and writers want to quickly find a way to make it so SuperDad has always been there. They might not actually even devote story pages to it. You could just see stuff like more and more SuperDad just interacts with everyone and everyone interacts with him like he's always been there and it was a total reboot. That'd be stupid, but I could see them doing it. And they'd vague up any elements that rely on backstory (Like seeing Martha's likely hand but not Martha) or just go with whatever fits the story they feel like telling in a given issue. I'm not sure they want to either deal with it or definitely resolve it, my guess is that they just want it be like it was always this way. Now, if that's true, it'd be very aggravating, but why do we trust these guys not to make aggravating short sighted decisions? They have a history of it.

I mean, did the issue even address which Superman's father SuperDad was talking to? That SuperDad probably called him Dad and Jonathan Sr. probably called him son doesn't necessarily mean anything. One could argue that neither of them would really be able to emotionally think past recognizing each other as father and son and ask tough questions, even to themselves. That's especially true if the writers don't want to deal with SuperDad not having been there the whole time. I really think this is headed towards a situation where they never reference or allude to SuperDad not being the past, present, and future of this timeline. The real question is just whether they do it by default by just not doing anything and asking like its true, or have a storypoint that waves a magic wand and explains it.

[Superlad93]

Wouldn't Pre-Crisis Superman's mother be dead as well because of either a) the alterations to the timelines, b) the death of Superman's universe, or c) the ten years plus that have passed since SuperDad would have last seen her?

I mean, in theory they are still in the new53 universe, right? The old universe is starting to reemerge, but Wally West was able to return because he was outside time when the event happened, and SuperDad was possibly shielded because he was on the Telos planet. We haven't seen anyone who was confirmed dead in the new52 pop back up and seen it chalked up to the universe just changing, have we? Honest question, because I stioped reading.

Correct. Adding ten years does not mean that people come back to life.

So, if SuperDad is Pre-Crisis Superman and talking to his own parents somehoe in the afterlife, he might expect them to both be dead because of b and c. If he was talking to the new52 Superman's parents, he'd probably know that they were both dead because I assume he'd have looked it up at some point in his 10 years in hiding, or certainly would have now that he's taking a public role again.

Since the world is being reset back to it's original state then we can only assume that the Jon Kent seen in Clark's mind is his but also the New 52 Superman's in a sense. We can also very much confirm that Superdad knows that Nuperman's mom and dad are dead because he's been to their graves twice now.

My guess would be, and this is not having read the issue, but just my general hunch, that the editors and writers want to quickly fibd a way to make it so SuperDad has always been there. They might not actually even devote story pages to it. You could just see stuff like more and more SuperDad just interacts with everyone and everyone interacts with him like he's always been there and it was a total reboot. That'd be stupid, but I could see them doing it. And they'd vague up any elements that rely on backstory (Like seeing Martha's likely hand but not Martha) or just go with whatever fits the story they feel like telling in a given issue. I'm not sure they want to either deal with it or definitely resolve it, my guess is that they just want it be like it was always this way. Now, if that's true, it'd be very aggravating, but why do we trust these guys not to make aggravating short sited decisions? They have a history of it.

I'm almost 100% sure that the hand is Lois' because it's the same shirt and nail color. But as far as your other point goes, yeah that's sorta kinda where it's going. But it's more built into the story because this is his Earth but unnaturally altered. Once time is fixed then I assume we'll have a sort of amalgamation of just as we've seen with Wally's return and his "old memories" (not really old. In fact they're pretty new...ish).

That's basically what it's gonna be new....ish.

[Sacred Knight]

Yeah, sorry guys, I think the hand is just Lois's now that I saw it again. What threw me the first time around was that the way the panel was crafted, it had the voice bubble of who would turn out to be Jonathan coming from below off-panel, in the direction of where the hand was coming from. So I was assuming that at this point I was already seeing things from Superman's illusion perspective, as opposed to what it probably is of a visual of the real time events, with Lois reaching for Superman, but with the voice of Jonathan kinda coming out of thin air before Superman begins "seeing" his father and the farm.

[dumbduck]

So, Action Comics #961.







http://comicvine.gamespot.com/articl...1/1100-155913/


I'm a little bothered that Clark didn't try to save them himself, but maybe with the broken arm and the distance he saw that only Luthor could really have done anything. At any rate he seems to be brave, staying in dangerous areas, being observant/helpful and seems to be acting as Lex's Jiminy Cricket.

Writing this, I come to the conclusion that I really hope this is a part of Clark and not a robot to re-establish the secret ID.

[dumbduck]

And the big bombshell...


http://comicsalliance.com/phil-jimen...e-controversy/

Well. I think the die is cast. This is either the biggest signaling of hope for us or... Lois turned to ash just like Clark. The theory of them being constructs gains strength. But, I want to believe that DC wouldn't be so cruel.

Also, Jimenez wrote:

Phil Jimenez ‏@Philjimeneznyc 5 min
Very grateful for the #Superwoman love today. For those concerned about LL, the old cliche holds -- it ain't over til it's over! )

One thing I haven't read in other threads about this book, is that it seems that Lois was looking at Lana when she 'saw' Clark. "I'll always be with you, Red". 'Big Red' is how Clark called Lana. And Lana developing anxiety like - another big revelation - Clark.

I think (part of) Clark's spirit is within Lana.

I wrote a few times before, sometimes jokingly, sometimes seriously, that Clark had psychological problems. 'Doomed' + 'Horroville' + 'Truth' was very worrying to me. From what I know about pre-flashpoint, Supes fans had an extremely negative reaction to a Supes who was doubtfull and needed a shrink.

Like a few other people in this forum, I have a share of problems. And it's funny because some people have the hypothesis that Jimenez's message could be for Lana to stop living other people's lives and moving on with her own. Maybe reading this book could be the answer for me finally managing to let go of these comics. I know I need to do this. Even when the Clark/Diana pairing was going on I could only filter negativity.

So... Was(Is) 52 Supes bipolar/depressive, etc? Is it worth creating a thread about?

[Ascended]

So... Was(Is) 52 Supes bipolar/depressive, etc? Is it worth creating a thread about?

I would say no, and no.

Nuperman was, at times, quiet, at other times brash, on occasion introspective or just sad, and certainly introverted. Other times he would show off or pull the occasional prank. He spent a good amount of time angry. But depressed or bipolar? Certainly not.

The closest he ever came to that was after Doomed. When he finally gets home from the ass end of the galaxy he finds out that the world picked itself up and started rebuilding without him. And they're not his biggest fans either, considering the damage he did while infected. He was certainly going through some heavy emotional stuff, and the Horrorville arc that followed didnt help him either. But even when he wasn't publicly acting as Superman and was just letting people handle their own affairs, it wasnt about giving up. It was about giving people the time and space they needed and taking a break for his own stressed state of mind and comfort. He never gave up, he just took a break.

Actually, given that big crossovers and Events are typically all about huge, life-shattering moments, and given the amount that Nuperman was forced to endure, Id say his emotional and mental resiliency was quite impressive. He had his issues, but nothing as severe as depression.

Post-Crisis Superman was the guy suffering from depression. Started seeing a shrink in 2002, got slapped and took a year long walk across America in 2010. Exiled himself into space after executing some terrible people in 87 or so. That Superman was a lot of great things, but emotionally he was all too flawed and human.

[Sacred Knight]

Here's the thing, before Lois goes nova, she seems to have an epiphany. One that includes Clark, puts a smile on her face, and seemingly puts her completely at ease and at peace. If she has had some sort of revelation that will eventually be used to explain the two Superman and Lois dilemma, which I think is damn near a certainty, then to me it almost completely nullifies the idea they were constructs. Why would a revelation that you and your best friend (and potentially man you're in love with) are fakes make you happy, after all?

[dumbduck]

Here's the thing, before Lois goes nova, she seems to have an epiphany. One that includes Clark, puts a smile on her face, and seemingly puts her completely at ease and at peace. If she has had some sort of revelation that will eventually be used to explain the two Superman and Lois dilemma, which I think is damn near a certainty, then to me it almost completely nullifies the idea they were constructs. Why would a revelation that you and your best friend (and potentially man you're in love with) are fakes make you happy, after all?

I was about to write about that. I saw the same thing. Learning she was a construct would be horrifying. Instead she clearly sees something about Clark that makes her very happy. This is very hopeful for us.

[dumbduck]

I would say no, and no.

Nuperman was, at times, quiet, at other times brash, on occasion introspective or just sad, and certainly introverted. Other times he would show off or pull the occasional prank. He spent a good amount of time angry. But depressed or bipolar? Certainly not.

The closest he ever came to that was after Doomed. When he finally gets home from the ass end of the galaxy he finds out that the world picked itself up and started rebuilding without him. And they're not his biggest fans either, considering the damage he did while infected. He was certainly going through some heavy emotional stuff, and the Horrorville arc that followed didnt help him either. But even when he wasn't publicly acting as Superman and was just letting people handle their own affairs, it wasnt about giving up. It was about giving people the time and space they needed and taking a break for his own stressed state of mind and comfort. He never gave up, he just took a break.

Actually, given that big crossovers and Events are typically all about huge, life-shattering moments, and given the amount that Nuperman was forced to endure, Id say his emotional and mental resiliency was quite impressive. He had his issues, but nothing as severe as depression.

Post-Crisis Superman was the guy suffering from depression. Started seeing a shrink in 2002, got slapped and took a year long walk across America in 2010. Exiled himself into space after executing some terrible people in 87 or so. That Superman was a lot of great things, but emotionally he was all too flawed and human.

The trouble I had with Doomed was how weak mentally he was in every book apart from Pak's. In SM/WW he was particularly pathetic. And the resolution to Horroville was horrifying to me. The negativity seemed to be building and the apex came with 'Truth', especially in the SM/WW book.

The shrink was in 'For Tomorrow', right?

I know that the killing of Zod and Co wasn't well received. But that Space 'exile' Supes did afterwards was some of the best stories for the character. The new spin on Warworld, Mongul, etc. Great stuff, IMO.

[Tayswift]

Lois isn't smiling when she was about to die

[Sacred Knight]

Yes, there is a small smile there. She's not cackling just she just heard the funniest joke in the world but she definitely has a serene look on her face with whatever it she's seeing (probably Superman since she calls his name). She's certainly not scared, she's certainly not in pain, nor is she having any reaction one might expect from someone who's essentially blowing up nor received a terrifying revelation about her identity.