Red Hood/Arsenal #13 Preview/Discussion

[Aioros22]

But I thought first met in outlaws 1

Stop stealing dicks life
Nice Simpson cameo

You thought wrong.

Dark already covered it, but going a step further, in either major reboot (Post Crisis and 52) Jason met Roy when he was still Robin.

[Aioros22]

Oh yeah.

Jason with them arrow skills

[Lhynn]

Oh yeah.

Jason with them arrow skills

Batmans basic training covers p. much every gun or weapon. They have to know how they work to at least be able to predict attacks made with them.

[Rac7d*]

Except that it did.

In issue 2 Lobdell stablished that Jason died and was resurrected around a year and half before the start of the N52, with the bulk of that time being spend training with the All Caste and then fighting Batman in Gotham so, Roy and him had to met while Jason was Robin. Furthermore, that was explicitly shown in a flashback in RH/A 6

Were they friends?

[AJpyro]

Were they friends?

I'd say maybe but more like working acquaintances. Since things are now being re/boot/tconned/established and that the Titans are back and were friends and colleagues, I'd say::

Acquaintances to friends: Jason and ROy

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Were they friends?

They didn't truly became friends until RHATO.

[Starchild]

I think im more excited for the backup story.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

That...

That was not what I expected.

I'm gonna need a couple of hours to process it.

Just know this, it was good.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Ok, I was finally able to digest the issue and here's my thoughts on it (spoilered to be safe)

spoilers:

This issue is leap and bounds better than the end of RHATO. Is clear Lobdell had a lot more time to set up this ending and was more or less given freedom to end it on his own terms. The Iron Rule ended as nothing more than a plot device to bear the brunt of Jason's rage and dissapointment while Duela ultimately was just a minor hurdle. The thing that broke the boys wasn't Duela's machinations but the bystander's actions. In a pretty clever twist, the online poll was the final nail in the coffin for Roy and Jason's friendship. While was indoubtly awesome to see Jason go all out and take swiftly take down the Iron Rule, the palpable bitterness at the poll results is what struck the most to me. He really tried to change, to trust in people's goodness but his faith was misplaced. Ironically, Duela did break Jason's spirit but not in the way she wanted. Given the preview pages I was fearful Roy would end scared of Jason and that being the reason of his separation but the truth was more satisfying and poignant: he was still willing to forgive Jason for his actions and start anew. This way Roy proved himself to be a true friend until the end. However, this was too much for Jason than realized if they continued together, Roy would be swept by his darkness and cynism, losing everything Jason valued in the first place. And thus, he decided to cut ties with him. This resolution makes feasible for the series' events to happen before Titan's Hunt making logical the reasons Roy ends with the Titans rounding his character's trip. For Jason's character this is huge. For the longest time his needs and wants were the only thing that mattered to him but now, Lobdell managed to develop him into someone genuinely selfless willing to put other's needs over his. I couldn't help but notice how Lobdell depicted the breakup in a way reminicent of a couple so, he gave something to everyone in this issue. The backup story is the perfect cap for the boys' adventures in the N52, perfectly emulating the feel of the silver age comic book stories and reminicent of the end of the UTRH animated movie. Anyways, great issue. Lobdell finally topped RHATO 18 as his best work with these characters and it leave me anxious to see Jason's new adventures in the Rebirth. Hopefully, he and Roy will cross paths again and rekindle their friendship even if is just for a brief moment. So long Rent-A-Bat, you were the best.

end of spoilers

[Aioros22]

Those are some fine twists.

Loedbell isn`t for everyone and some fans can haul at RATHO for whatever reason, but the titular character is being developded and that`s what matters the most. The bonus is that Roy wasn`t shafted as a character to do it. In that regard his endeveour is well met.

[AJpyro]

Just read it.

Man those feels. I can see where the characters were coming from when they make their decisions but it doesn't hurt less to see it all end.

spoilers:

And bonus points for Jason's decision. Who would want to be a hero for people who actually voted to kill of your best friend. Seriously screw those people. And roy...roy. Roy. Roy. Just trying to be the guy shining in the light of heroism. Despite self-loathing tendencies and self destructive patterns. but man he and Jay shined for a bit. And that flashback. The Trucker Hat will never die!

end of spoilers

Can't believe a years gone by. And despite whatever anyone says, this was a dang fine book. It didn't need to be a sales topper or anything. It was just a fine duo book for two characters and it did it well.

I hope that when Roy returns in Titans, the development and history he's made here and RHatO won't be forgotten. I know Lobdell won't forget it.

[Aioros22]

I totally enjoyed the dig at the Poll. Made me snort my cola in delight.

[Aahz]

If you really go by the original comics it would have imo made more sense to use Kid Devil instead of Roy, since he was (pre crisis) Jason's pen pal (Blue Devil #19, also mentioned in Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe #12). And his personality is iirc not so different from the new 52 Roy (I'm not knowledgeable about that character).

[Aahz]

If you really go by the original comics it would have imo made more sense to use Kid Devil instead of Roy, since he was (pre crisis) Jason's pen pal (Blue Devil #19, also mentioned in Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe #12). And his personality is iirc not so different from the new 52 Roy (I'm not knowledgeable about that character).

I just saw that this firendship even survived COIE according to Teen Titans Vol 3 #47.

[Aioros22]

Wow, that`s an amazing find (can you post any page of reference in his Thread ) It doesn`t take away that he can have that sort of friendship with someone else but that said, those kind of more obscure details are always cool and I wouldn`t mind DC hinting at it or flat out show it.

Don`t necessarily agree with "making more sense" since as long neither character loses from it and the story works, any of the two can be of use. The more the merrier. Roy is later aquaintance but it`s also a nod to the classic Wolfman TT right after Crisis.