Is liking Slott's work a generational thing?

[Icefalcon]

26. Hot-n-Cold on Slott's work. He's written some damn fine Spider-man stories, some of my all-time favorites really. But there are whole years of his work that I can just miss. Unfortunately, the past couple years of Amazing Spider-Man are the weakest the series has been since pre-BND, where the book seemed to be an identity crisis with a dull status quo, boring villains, mediocre storycraft, and mysteries I couldn't possibly care about.

It really really makes me wonder how much Steve Wacker was behind Slott's best stories. As soon as he's left during Superior Spider-Man, the quality has dropped noticeably, right through the disappointing Goblin Nation, the bland empty calories of 2014 Spider-Man, the bigger-broader Spider-Verse, and the current Parker Industries thing which has just been a huge dud for me. Like, I'm not just imagining this either, cuz I re-read many of these stories again, and Slott's skill seems to have just...deteriorated. His sense of humor, his fun page transitions, his knowledge of story economy and characterization, visualizing exciting/clever action sequences to utilize Spider-Man and the rogue's power set, the compelling building of sub-plots for later stories...its all worse than his peak years during BND and the first Big Time year.

Its a shame, because every new project he hypes up, I think "This is gonna be the one he gets his groove back". Remember that Spider-Man: Year One thing he did with Ramon Perez? Remember how flaccid and unremarkable and slight the whole thing turned out to be? Remember it at all? It should've been an evergreen classic you could give to people all the time, and it really wasn't.

Renew Your Views had potential, but too many bad ideas that I have to imagine a stronger editor would have reigned in and shaped into a stronger narrative.

So IDK. I want "Dead No More" to be great, but the last couple years have told me otherwise. Damn shame.

Thanks! You've saved me a lot of typing because you've just about covered my opinion 100%. I'm 48 BTW

[Spidercide]

Sup, just turned 25 and I hate Slott. I hated him when I was 22. I hated him when I was 18 and at no point did anything he write, even his She-Hulk run which I loved convince me he was right for Spider-Man.

And he is the worst Spider-Man writer to have a run on the character. Not as a craftsman because Kavanagh existed. But he’s like bottom 3. He’s top 1 though in terms of who’s done the most to f*** up the character and the franchise and send it into a dark whirlpool of crap that needs to be rehabilitated.

And no, that’s not just opinion btw. That’s “Let’s look at this from a critical/literary analysis POV combined with knowledge as to who Peter Parker is and has been defined over 45+ years and see how this holds up? Oh, not at all. He misunderstands the character on a fundamental level and doesn’t understand human emotions which is a absolute requirement for Spider-Man which is all about internal emotions.”

On a certain level all comics are generational because any kid reading them with no past exposure who likes it will probably be imprinting on them like a baby duck.

I know some of the early **** I read was craptastic but I loved it and still do.

I think with Slott though it really, honestly comes down to how well you get good storytelling and maybe even how well you know the character. But mostly it’s what you like from Spider-Man.

If you like zany Saturday morning action figure nonsense adventures with a lot of biff bam pow zoom action going on and lots of guest stars...or basically Marvel Team-Up only louder and even MORE shallow, you will probably like Slott’s run.

In contrast if you liked ohhhhh, I dunno...Conway’s 70s run, Stern and DeFalco’s 80s runs, Mackie/DeMatteis 90s stuff (pre-reboot obviously), JMS/Jenkins 2000s stuff, or you know the runs actually indicative of who the Hell Spider-Man is and what his series is about on a grander narrative level and you are using that stuff as your criteria for measuring all other runs against yeah you just MIGHT find Slott lacking...a lot...

It’s honestly not a single vs. Marriage thing. Truly it isn’t.

If you are looking at Conway’s run in the 70s and saying this is what Spider-Man’s supposed to be like, even if you don’t update that to take into account changing times, changing standards, the fact that he’s older and has developed more, Slott’s run is failure of epic proportions.

You want good Spider-Man? Then no celebrity status. No vast resources of tech. No globe trotting. Minimal guest stars. No one needing to help him outside of emotional support.

He’s just a guy. He’s just a relatively normal average Joe guy on the street trying to live day by day as best he can, making his cash payments, seeing his friends and family, keeping his love life alive, getting some down time, maintaining his home except he’s got to do all that and also shoulder the burden of helping people whenever he can even if it sometimes compromises and complicates that stuff.

And he does it with some handsown crummy spandex, homemade low rent tech, his own two hands and sheer bloody grit and determination.

Even before the Parker Industries nonsense Slott had Peter get Batman/Iron Man tech toys to play with to fight crime and crap. He was having the Avengers show up. He was jobbing Spidey in his own book.

You can knock Spidey down, but he better get back up swinging and not win because someone else did it for him or let him win.

That is Spider-Man and that is why Slott’s run sucks.

Anyone of any age can appreciate that. A kid who grew up on Spec Spidey can appreciate that. A kid who grew up today reading USM or Ditko can appreciate that.

And if they hold that up as who Spidey is, Slott’s run at best is gonna be attractive due to dumb bright colours.

Its an absolute joke.

[mlazic]

34 read off and on through the 90's but been reading solid from Civil War to now. Generally I really like Dan's take on Pete. His work has a nice silver age feel to me.

[Spidercide]

I'm all for big dips in the status quo but I agree that Spider-Man's 'dips' have gotten deeper and deeper. I think Slott 'gets' Spider-Man more than any other writer at Marvel (by far) so it's not a change in the character himself that I'm worried about...it's how they are inevitably going to go back to that classic, traditional Spidey status quo and how many more relaunches, events, and reboots it's going to take to get there.

Dude...c'mon....

Dan Slott who had Peter invade people's privacy gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Greg Weisman who did the kickass Spec cartoon?

Dan Slott who had Peter allow Sajani to continue working at Parker Industries after she helped burn the place down in volume 3 gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Gerry Conway who killed Gwen Stacy?

Dan Slott who has had Spider-Man fight interdimensional magic vampires for months before turning him into a globetrotting CEO Iron Man rip-off gets Sider-Man BY FAR more than Bendis who did USM?

Dan Slott who had Spider-Man let a goddam assaulter go free because Aunt May guilt tripped him into spending time with Betty Brant (the guy's VICTIM) gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Peter David who wrote the Death of Jean DeWolff?


Dude...c'mon...

[Johnatellodi]

I love Slott's writing on Superior Spider-Man and "No One Dies". Definitely ready for a new writer and I agree that his work has felt off since around "Gobliin Nation".

[Peter Parker]

I agree about the idea that his quality was tied into tight editing. No matter how much people may not have liked Steve Whacker on these forums, he was a gifted editor who oversaw many fantastic runs.

[Spidercide]

I agree about the idea that his quality was tied into tight editing. No matter how much people may not have liked Steve Whacker on these forums, he was a gifted editor who oversaw many fantastic runs.

He oversaw a good runs with Waid's DD, Remender's Venom, most of the first year of Yost SS and and with 52 back in the day.

He was a poor, poor Spider-Man editor because he clearly didn't know the character very well, did needlessly mean spirtied stories or else wrong headed nonsense like Shed or Back in Black Cat or Peter Parker Paparazzi or Grim Hunt. He had Spider-Man run out of webbing multiple times during the first BND runs, sometimes the art on BND sucked **** and basically what I am trying to say is he got the trains to run on time and that was about it with Spider-Man.

His tenure was broken in so many, so many ways.

[Pav]

He oversaw a good runs with Waid's DD, Remender's Venom, most of the first year of Yost SS and and with 52 back in the day.

He was a poor, poor Spider-Man editor because he clearly didn't know the character very well, did needlessly mean spirtied stories or else wrong headed nonsense like Shed or Back in Black Cat or Peter Parker Paparazzi or Grim Hunt. He had Spider-Man run out of webbing multiple times during the first BND runs, sometimes the art on BND sucked **** and basically what I am trying to say is he got the trains to run on time and that was about it with Spider-Man.

His tenure was broken in so many, so many ways.

I found Grim Hunt to be pretty excellent, and I enjoyed Shed and the new status quo it produced for the Lizard.

-Pav, who doesn't treat opinion like fact...

[Aruran.]

He oversaw a good runs with Waid's DD, Remender's Venom, most of the first year of Yost SS and and with 52 back in the day.

He was a poor, poor Spider-Man editor because he clearly didn't know the character very well, did needlessly mean spirtied stories or else wrong headed nonsense like Shed or Back in Black Cat or Peter Parker Paparazzi or Grim Hunt. He had Spider-Man run out of webbing multiple times during the first BND runs, sometimes the art on BND sucked **** and basically what I am trying to say is he got the trains to run on time and that was about it with Spider-Man.

His tenure was broken in so many, so many ways.

Personally I disagree with this considering how Wacker went on the record during interviews and said he viewed Spider-Man as a tragedy, which lead to Peter feeling down at the end of a lot of those arcs.

[Prof. Warren]

He oversaw a good runs with Waid's DD, Remender's Venom, most of the first year of Yost SS and and with 52 back in the day.

He was a poor, poor Spider-Man editor because he clearly didn't know the character very well, did needlessly mean spirtied stories or else wrong headed nonsense like Shed or Back in Black Cat or Peter Parker Paparazzi or Grim Hunt. He had Spider-Man run out of webbing multiple times during the first BND runs, sometimes the art on BND sucked **** and basically what I am trying to say is he got the trains to run on time and that was about it with Spider-Man.

His tenure was broken in so many, so many ways.

Wacker was a great Spidey editor. If one of your big points against him is that Spidey ran out of webbing multiple times in a relatively short span of issues...sorry, but that's not a very damning critique. "Sometimes the art on BND sucked ****"...we'll attribute this to subjective taste. Not every artist on BND was to my exact liking but I always appreciated the level of talent. As editor, Wacker did far more than get the trains to run on time (although given the frequency of ASM's publishing schedule in the BND era, that alone was no small feat) and I'm sure many fans would agree that arcs like Shed and Grim Hunt were far from being "wrong headed nonsense."

[Prof. Warren]

Dan Slott who had Peter invade people's privacy gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Greg Weisman who did the kickass Spec cartoon?

What does Peter invading people's privacy (in what issue, by the way?) have to do with Greg Weisman and the SSM cartoon? Also, SSM was a nice program but has garnered a somewhat overrated reputation.

Dan Slott who had Peter allow Sajani to continue working at Parker Industries after she helped burn the place down in volume 3 gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Gerry Conway who killed Gwen Stacy?

Again, what does the Sajani storyline have to do with the Death of Gwen Stacy? For one, Peter continuing to give Sajani chances is very in line with Peter's nature as a nice guy who wants to continually believe the best in people. And as for Conway, he's one of my favorite Spidey writers but if the internet was around when he killed Gwen Stacy, you'd have thread after thread of fans calling for him to be fired. Conway has said he had to stop reading fan mail because the negativity towards him was so rabid.

Dan Slott who has had Spider-Man fight interdimensional magic vampires for months before turning him into a globetrotting CEO Iron Man rip-off gets Sider-Man BY FAR more than Bendis who did USM?

Spider-verse was a epic love letter to every corner of Spider-Man lore. No one but a massive Spidey fanatic like Slott would've conceived and wrote it. And citing ANAD Spider-Man as an Iron Man "rip-off" is idiotic as it's been overtly stated that Slott is deliberately putting Peter in Tony's shoes in order to show Peter in a fish out of water scenario. "Rip-off" describes something that is a carbon copy simply for the sake of aping something else. This, however, is about putting Peter in uncharted territory and showing how much he isn't like Tony.

When the previous volume of ASM ended, the complaint was that "Oh, of course Parker Industries failed! How predictable!" but when ANAD was announced with its status quo change, the complaints then became "Wait! That's not Spider-Man! You can't do that!" But this is a storyline that explores what would happen if Peter finally lived up to his full potential. Again, this is a storyline that a lifelong Spidey fan like Slott would naturally want to tell.

And as far as comparing this with Bendis' USM run...they're both great Spidey writers.

Dan Slott who had Spider-Man let a goddam assaulter go free because Aunt May guilt tripped him into spending time with Betty Brant (the guy's VICTIM) gets Spider-Man more BY FAR than Peter David who wrote the Death of Jean DeWolff?

Betty was in serious, we're led to believe critical, condition and May made Peter realize that his proper place in that moment was by her side, not out hunting down her attacker. This is 100% dead on.

And, again, David's Death of Jean DeWolff story has nothing to do with ASM #665. Two different stories, both by excellent Spidey scribes.

[normanosborn]

I am in my early 20s, and have read all issues of Amazing Spider-Man in release order, and I really like most of Slott's work. Sometimes I feel like he should pass on the reins to someone else, but Slott keeps switching the status quo around in fresh ways.

[Frontier]

What does Peter invading people's privacy (in what issue, by the way?) have to do with Greg Weisman and the SSM cartoon? Also, SSM was a nice program but has garnered a somewhat overrated reputation.

Really? I think it completely earned it's reputation as one of the best Spider-Man cartoons of all time with its strong writing and handling of the Spider-Man mythos and characters, dynamic and memorable action scenes, colorful and unique character designs, and stellar voice cast. Not sure how any of its reputation is overrated, especially when it's compared to the current running Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.

Again, what does the Sajani storyline have to do with the Death of Gwen Stacy? For one, Peter continuing to give Sajani chances is very in line with Peter's nature as a nice guy who wants to continually believe the best in people. And as for Conway, he's one of my favorite Spidey writers but if the internet was around when he killed Gwen Stacy, you'd have thread after thread of fans calling for him to be fired. Conway has said he had to stop reading fan mail because the negativity towards him was so rabid.

I think Peter can believe in the best in people and still acknowledge that Sajani is not a good person and has tried to sabotage their company on multiple occasions, making her a liability to keep in Parker Industries.

Spider-verse was a epic love letter to every corner of Spider-Man lore. No one but a massive Spidey fanatic like Slott would've conceived and wrote it. And citing ANAD Spider-Man as an Iron Man "rip-off" is idiotic as it's been overtly stated that Slott is deliberately putting Peter in Tony's shoes in order to show Peter in a fish out of water scenario. "Rip-off" describes something that is a carbon copy simply for the sake of aping something else. This, however, is about putting Peter in uncharted territory and showing how much he isn't like Tony.

A love-letter that featured the deaths of 1602 Spidey, the brutal deaths of the Amazing Friends, the death of Mayday's dad which turned her into a sadder, revenge-driven character for the majority of Spider-Verse, SpOck of all people inspiring Uncle Ben instead of Peter, and Peter barely doing anything at all until the very end of the event. Which, honestly, doesn't sound like much of a love letter to the franchise.

When the previous volume of ASM ended, the complaint was that "Oh, of course Parker Industries failed! How predictable!" but when ANAD was announced with its status quo change, the complaints then became "Wait! That's not Spider-Man! You can't do that!" But this is a storyline that explores what would happen if Peter finally lived up to his full potential. Again, this is a storyline that a lifelong Spidey fan like Slott would naturally want to tell.

Alternatively he's showcasing how Peter is very ill-suited to this status quo as he blows off meetings and important company business to go out and be Spider-Man, while using company resources and money to fund his Spider-Man work which from a business perspective could be seen as wasteful (Tony's even criticized him for this I believe).

Betty was in serious, we're led to believe critical, condition and May made Peter realize that his proper place in that moment was by her side, not out hunting down her attacker. This is 100% dead on.

And, again, David's Death of Jean DeWolff story has nothing to do with ASM #665. Two different stories, both by excellent Spidey scribes.

Dead on for someone who doesn't know Peter is Spider-Man, a hero with a responsibility of catching a bad guy, by telling him then that he should've been there for her when Uncle Ben died instead of understanding the need for him to process in his own way his grief at that age and at that moment.

[Prof. Warren]

Really? I think it completely earned it's reputation as one of the best Spider-Man cartoons of all time with its strong writing and handling of the Spider-Man mythos and characters, dynamic and memorable action scenes, colorful and unique character designs, and stellar voice cast. Not sure how any of its reputation is overrated, especially when it's compared to the current running Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.

SSM is good. It's a very solidly crafted Spidey cartoon. But you'd think it was something on the level Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's DC animated series based on the way some talk about it. And while it's good, I don't think it's in that class. And USM may not be for you, but it clearly works for the younger audience that it's meant for, based on its continued success. And while some will say "Uh, but my (insert younger relative here) hates USM and loves SSM!" That doesn't matter. Your individual experience clearly is not representative of the entire audience. If it were, USM wouldn't be in its fourth season.

I think Peter can believe in the best in people and still acknowledge that Sajani is not a good person and has tried to sabotage their company on multiple occasions, making her a liability to keep in Parker Industries.

Well, he obviously considered his choices and felt giving Sajani more chances was worth it to him. Certainly it's not out of character in any way. It'd be more out of character if he immediately kicked her to the curb.

A love-letter that featured the deaths of 1602 Spidey, the brutal deaths of the Amazing Friends, the death of Mayday's dad which turned her into a sadder, revenge-driven character for the majority of Spider-Verse, SpOck of all people inspiring Uncle Ben instead of Peter, and Peter barely doing anything at all until the very end of the event. Which, honestly, doesn't sound like much of a love letter to the franchise.

Just because you love fictional characters doesn't mean you can't harm any aspect of that character's universe. If it did, think of all the Spider-Man cast members who would never have met tragic ends.

Mayday emerges from the story anything but revenge-driven so the fact that we didn't know which way she'd go until the end was an element of suspense that only proved to reassert Mayday's positive nature.

SpOck's speech to Ben was a perversely brilliant character touch as it shows how, in Ock's egocentric mind, he is a hero.

And as the whole point of Spider-Verse is showing how Peter is the example all these off-shoots can look up to, it certainly is a celebration of Peter Parker and to the Spider-franchise.

Alternatively he's showcasing how Peter is very ill-suited to this status quo as he blows off meetings and important company business to go out and be Spider-Man, while using company resources and money to fund his Spider-Man work which from a business perspective could be seen as wasteful (Tony's even criticized him for this I believe).

And if Peter was suddenly a perfect CEO, never making a bad call or questionable decision, it wouldn't be very believable or in-character, would it?

Dead on for someone who doesn't know Peter is Spider-Man, a hero with a responsibility of catching a bad guy, by telling him then that he should've been there for her when Uncle Ben died instead of understanding the need for him to process in his own way his grief at that age and at that moment.

May was correct in making Peter realize that sometimes his first responsibility is to be there when his friends and relatives need him. Had Peter not gone after the burglar the night his Uncle was killed, that burglar would've been caught by the police. Peter went out with revenge in his heart and perhaps his time should've been spent comforting the woman who just lost her husband. May was correct in saying that Peter's place in that moment was with Betty.

[Mauled]

By coincidence Iv recently rewatched Spectacular Spiderman and it still holds up to this day, both for kids and adults. Great writing and voice acting, it's such a shame it was pulled after only 2 seasons It deserved more.