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  1. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You said that knowing it would absolutely *force* me to check it out, didn't you?
    It's definitely worth watching. It's not that it really resembles Morrison's works, but it has a level of weirdness and unpredictability which reminds of Morrison's early experiments, before he fell into the trap of metacomics and postmodernism that IMHO has become really repetitive from a certain point of his career on.

    That's actually an interesting detail about mangas and animes - there are thousands and thousands of works, but as far as I know almost none of them relies as heavily on postmodern metacommentary as some late Alan Moore and Grant Morrison works do. It's not that they don't have models or sources of inspiration (Chainsaw Man is basically an update/variation of Go Nagai's Devilman and a lot of elements of Berserk's horror mythology are inspired by Clive Barker's Hellraiser, especially on a visual level), but their primary aim is always the story itself, not the commentary on pre-existing stories. To a degree, it's a situation similar to Victorian and Edwardian literature - there were a lot of epistolary novels which may have closely resembled each other, but not a novel ABOUT epistolary novels (as far as I know).

    Again, that doesn't mean that animes/mangas can't be repetitive (some of the most popular mangas, like Dragon Ball Z, are repetitive as hell, and to a degree it's one of the keys to understand their success) or they can't explore different points of views about specific topics or subgenres, but they always do it in a very peculiar way. For example, the original anime Neon Genesis Evangelion is a variation on the mecha genre (teenagers in huge robots, basically), but it is done in an extremely original and disturbing way, with a narration which is progressively more fragmented and references to real-life events like the 1995 Tokyo sarin attack. Or Urasawa's Pluto, which is a remake/update with cyberpunk-ish elements of a classic Tezuka Astro Boy story. Even people like Satoshi Kon, who was a hugely creative director of animes and often broke the fourth wall in his movies, but not just to express his own opinion/commentary in a, let's say, Morrison way.

    I deeply admire Moore and Morrison, but IMHO it's hard to deny that the late chapters of LoEG are basically 50% a pop culture encyclopedia and 50% Moore's personal (and - to a degree - debatable) rant about what works and what doesn't in comic books, movies, music and literature, with a non-existent or almost unreadable plot. As for Morrison, I bemoan the times when his works were not a deconstruction of deconstructionism or the umpteenth, modernized riff on a pre-existing and well-known comics trend.
    Last edited by Myskin; 08-16-2022 at 03:04 AM.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  2. #1457
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    ....Mangas aren't just a genre like say superheroes =american comics (for the most part).Manga's tell different stories belonging to different genres altogether.They are classified into groups based on whom they are aimed at, primarily with age,gender..etc being the factor.....
    Exactly, a lot of people forgot this. Manga covers tons of genres, unlike America Comic Books which are 90% devoted to traditional young male demographic-focused superheroes. If you don't like young male demographic-focused superheroes you are out of luck where America Comic Books are concerned not so with Manga. This is part of the reason Manga is now dominating the market.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  3. #1458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Exactly, a lot of people forgot this. Manga covers tons of genres, unlike America Comic Books which are 90% devoted to traditional young male demographic-focused superheroes. If you don't like young male demographic-focused superheroes you are out of luck where America Comic Books are concerned not so with Manga. This is part of the reason Manga is now dominating the market.
    The most popular manga out there is from Weekly Shounen Jump. Which is a magazine targeting a young male demographic. I would say that manga domination is mostly because of the more popular anime adaptations they get. Anime is everywhere. Hulu, NetFlix, Amazon Prime Video, Tubi, Pluto TV, etc. Whereas Disney and WBD basically got an iron grip on their properties. Not to mention manga is more centralized, and the vast majority of imprints are owned by a select few companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitotsubashi_Group Just an example.

  4. #1459
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    The most popular manga out there is from Weekly Shounen Jump. Which is a magazine targeting a young male demographic. I would say that manga domination is mostly because of the more popular anime adaptations they get. Anime is everywhere. Hulu, NetFlix, Amazon Prime Video, Tubi, Pluto TV, etc. Whereas Disney and WBD basically got an iron grip on their properties. Not to mention manga is more centralized, and the vast majority of imprints are owned by a select few companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitotsubashi_Group Just an example.
    That may be but Manga is more than just Shonen. They literally have every genre covered.

    Manga is also more accessible than America Comics. I'm sorry, but my young nieces are not going to hang out in traditional comic book stores because it feels "creepy" to them but they love checking out Manga with me at Barnes & Noble. So, yeah, there are many factors from genre depth to distribution, etc. that play a role in the current dominance of Manga.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    That may be but Manga is more than just Shonen. They literally have every genre covered.

    Manga is also more accessible than America Comics. I'm sorry, but my young nieces are not going to hang out in traditional comic book stores because it feels "creepy" to them but they love checking out Manga with me at Barnes & Noble. So, yeah, there are many factors from genre depth to distribution, etc. that play a role in the current dominance of Manga.
    Demon Slayer is a very good example. A relatively popular manga (published by Weekly Shonen Jump), that people believed could usurp One Piece's (another Weekly Shonen Jump title) popularity in Japan because of the manga sales after the anime. The U.S. has historically been a place for TV/film/ and animation for kids.

    You're right, and I just wanted to say that anime is really the big driving force. American comics are stuck at LCS and aren't disturbed worldwide as a lot of the top manga gets. I've seen plenty of comments online where people complain about being foreign and can't get access to comics. No digital platform except for Amazon (comiXology). How did the industry become so stagnant?

  6. #1461
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    Anime adaptations play a role in the success of many mangas, mostly because such adaptations are generally quite faithful to the original material, even in terms of aesthetics (whereas superhero adaptations have little to zero influence on the sales of the comic books), but they aren't THE main factor. Some mangas - I am thinking of Berserk - were groundbreaking even before they were adapted in a movie or a series. And there are hugely influential mangas - like Alita Battle Angel or Blame! - which basically had no complete adaptations (Alita had only two OVAs in the 1990s - the live action movie came way after the success of the manga; as for Blame!, they basically built an entire franchise on the original series way before a very partial adaptation was made for Netflix). Of course, there are cases of mangas whose adaptation can be as culturally relevant as the original books, or even more (Akira or Ghost in the shell).
    Mangas have become very successful for a series of reasons, including anime adaptations, the format, the fact that they are very affordable and there's a huge variety of books, and even COVID played a role. But they are successful mostly because for Western standards they are infinitely less conventional and more compelling to read than, well, anything released by Marvel, DC, and a good chunk of what is published by Image.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  7. #1462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Anime adaptations play a role in the success of many mangas, mostly because such adaptations are generally quite faithful to the original material, even in terms of aesthetics (whereas superhero adaptations have little to zero influence on the sales of the comic books), but they aren't THE main factor. Some mangas - I am thinking of Berserk - were groundbreaking even before they were adapted in a movie or a series. And there are hugely influential mangas - like Alita Battle Angel or Blame! - which basically had no complete adaptations (Alita had only two OVAs in the 1990s - the live action movie came way after the success of the manga; as for Blame!, they basically built an entire franchise on the original series way before a very partial adaptation was made for Netflix). Of course, there are cases of mangas whose adaptation can be as culturally relevant as the original books, or even more (Akira or Ghost in the shell).
    Mangas have become very successful for a series of reasons, including anime adaptations, the format, the fact that they are very affordable and there's a huge variety of books, and even COVID played a role. But they are successful mostly because for Western standards they are infinitely less conventional and more compelling to read than, well, anything released by Marvel, DC, and a good chunk of what is published by Image.
    I actually have the first volume of Atilla, never even watched the movie. Purchased it on a whim in Walmart (I think it was Walmart). Yes, Japanese manga publishers are better than Western publishers. Anime plays a massive role in the popularity of manga.

    I think some here are offended by my claim manga popularity comes from anime, which is true. It's like prose books here in the States, a lot of them are popular, but publishers want Hollywood. Manga publishers want in Japan is anime adaptations. The real money comes from merchandise sales, anime, and whatever else they can do.

  8. #1463
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    Supergirl: Superwoman of Tomorrow still in the top 20 Unit sold charts for August.

    https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ls-august-2022
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

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  9. #1464
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    According to this site, Action Comics saw an improvement in its sales for August, with Action Comics #1046 reaching #55.

    https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/...ales-rankings/
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

    Credit for avatar goes to zclark

  10. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBally View Post
    Supergirl: Superwoman of Tomorrow still in the top 20 Unit sold charts for August.

    https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ls-august-2022
    It is still alive on Amazon as well so good news overall.

  11. #1466
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBally View Post
    According to this site, Action Comics saw an improvement in its sales for August, with Action Comics #1046 reaching #55.

    https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/...ales-rankings/
    And boy is Rokk salty about that lol. Wish we could get this info without having to endure his asinine commentary.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  12. #1467
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    Supergirl in the top 20 trades is great. I wasn't a fan of that run, but King once again shows he's a sales juggernaut. Hopefully Kara gets something in the near future.

    Action Comics is doing as well as I expected, by which I mean decently for a non-Batman-related ongoing, but damn, those are some terrible numbers for DC in general. The only non-Batman-related ongoings that seem to be doing okay (not great by any means, but okay) are Action Comics and Flash. No surprise they're massively promoting AC 1050. Here's hoping a more familiar setting and cast will make more people want to keep up with the series. Here's also hoping PKJ keeps things concise from now on since I know quite a few people dropped the Warworld Saga because they thought it was too long and decompressed. Personally I think back-ups with the backstories for these characters (which PKJ had mentioned we would get, but ultimately that didn't happen) could have made it a lot better, but let's see where this back-to-(some)-basics leads us. Also on the topic of Action Comics, the Warworld Apocalypse one-shot did significantly worse, but I'm assuming that's just because they didn't have enough data for a proper projection, because it wouldn't make any sense for the final issue of the arc to make that much worse than the previous one. PKJ's Green Lantern one-shot did about as much as Action Comics, but I'm assuming that's on Dark Crisis rather than PKJ. Also, it was mentioned this is the best any Superman solo book has done since Jon's coming-out issues, which is... both good and bad, I guess.

    Son of Kal-El dropped a lot. No surprise, I was one of the people who dropped it after all. Makes sense that AC would now be the heavily promoted book. Still, even with these sales, he's doing a lot better than fellow Future State cast members Jace (who has the Batman name behind him) and Yara (who was by far the most anticipated and well-received character before Future State). The benefit of being a character with an existing fanbase and a connection to the main lead that would make him a natural successor, I guess. And of having a book that comes out in time. Still doesn't look good compared to Taylor's other ongoing, of course.

    World's Finest continues to do very well, which is great. It's most certainly the Superman-related ongoing that most lives up to its own ambitions, and it has the best art too, IMO. Supergirl and Robin have been the highlights for me so far. Sadly, it looks like not even Waid can get me to care about standard Superman and Batman teaming-up, but Supergirl and Robin have been magnificent.

    Overall... sales are what I expected of them. Supergirl didn't do so well in singles so I had thought King couldn't work his sales magic there, but trade sales show otherwise. AC is doing mediocrely, but a damn sight better than most of the rest of DC. Son of Kal-El dropped once the Bi-reveal publicity died down. World's Finest is doing great.

    Here's hoping AC 1050 revitalizes sales a bit. But I'm not expecting any miracles, really, just a few more sales on AC.

  13. #1468
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think Warworld finale special came out the last day of the month so it will be split over two months.

    Action is also coming out last week usually so the gap between it and Son of Kal-El is likely to be bigger.

  14. #1469
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    Given how strong King’s sales are it’s odd to me that DC wouldn’t offer him a Superman book if he does in fact actually want one (which he said he did on his last Word Balloon interview, but he didn’t think DC would ever offer it to him). Maybe not an ongoing, but a BL book for his 85th next year?
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

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