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  1. #1096
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    I mean, Superman: Unchained was basically that and that sold extraordinarily well, until the massive delays. And even after that, it sold pretty well.
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  2. #1097
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I mean, Superman: Unchained was basically that and that sold extraordinarily well, until the massive delays. And even after that, it sold pretty well.
    Unchained had 10/12 variant covers x issue though. That helped raising the sales compared to the the majority of books that have just 1 variant.

  3. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Unchained had 10/12 variant covers x issue though. That helped raising the sales compared to the the majority of books that have just 1 variant.
    That's fair. And I imagine the Jim Lee of it all was a factor as well. People seem to like him.
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  4. #1099
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beetee View Post
    Interesting that Superman Year One isn't selling that much better than standard Superman. Are his sales doomed to plateau no matter who's on writing/art or direction?
    Yes. For quite a while, yes.

    Clark's been mismanaged for a long time. He's had pretty major direction shifts, continuity upheavals, etc. There's been fantastic stuff in his titles over the last few decades, but also a lot of bad and mountains of generic (which is worse in some ways) too. In my experience, people have a natural inclination to like Superman. He's a great power fantasy, he's fun......most little kids are going to like him. Most average adults like him (or at least the concept of him). But the direct market crowd hasn't been given a lot of quality Super-product on a consistent basis for a long time. Comic fans made up their minds about Superman a long time ago. It's going to take a whole lot more than a big name writer doing a run for Clark's brand trust to recover. It's going to take years of consistent, quality effort on DC's part to repair the damage they themselves have done to reader perception.
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  5. #1100
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beetee View Post
    Interesting that Superman Year One isn't selling that much better than standard Superman. Are his sales doomed to plateau no matter who's on writing/art or direction?
    What Ascended said; the well's been poisoned. It's going to take a while before that dissipates and people trust DC enough to blindly trust the brand again.

  6. #1101
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    If such a project will ever get made (soon, I hope), I'd be curious to see if there'll be a substantial sales difference. I still think it's the SM brand that as a whole (not just the origin) is less appealing than it was (or could/should be).
    Obviously the brand has been damaged in part due to DC’s own incompetence with regards to editorial and what talent they put on the Superbooks. But these constant repetitions of the same stories we’ve seen over and over again certainly aren’t helping.

  7. #1102
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes. For quite a while, yes.

    Clark's been mismanaged for a long time. He's had pretty major direction shifts, continuity upheavals, etc. There's been fantastic stuff in his titles over the last few decades, but also a lot of bad and mountains of generic (which is worse in some ways) too. In my experience, people have a natural inclination to like Superman. He's a great power fantasy, he's fun......most little kids are going to like him. Most average adults like him (or at least the concept of him). But the direct market crowd hasn't been given a lot of quality Super-product on a consistent basis for a long time. Comic fans made up their minds about Superman a long time ago. It's going to take a whole lot more than a big name writer doing a run for Clark's brand trust to recover. It's going to take years of consistent, quality effort on DC's part to repair the damage they themselves have done to reader perception.
    I know I say this a lot, but I wish there was a solid way to market his comics to kids and average adults again. Superman's never been the "cool guy" to the comics crowd - that's always gone to Batman/Wolverine/etc. Superman was always better with the general populace than with the hard core comics folks. A good number of them are, imo, pretty much a write-off.

    There has to be a way to market to the g.a., I'm just not exactly sure what it is.
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  8. #1103
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I know I say this a lot, but I wish there was a solid way to market his comics to kids and average adults again. Superman's never been the "cool guy" to the comics crowd - that's always gone to Batman/Wolverine/etc. Superman was always better with the general populace than with the hard core comics folks. A good number of them are, imo, pretty much a write-off.

    There has to be a way to market to the g.a., I'm just not exactly sure what it is.
    Well they are trying to bypass the direct market to tap in to the Scholastic audience with books like “Superman of Smallville”, so I hope that works out for them.

  9. #1104
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Well they are trying to bypass the direct market to tap in to the Scholastic audience with books like “Superman of Smallville”, so I hope that works out for them.
    That would be awesome - I hope so, too!
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  10. #1105
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Isn't "Superman Smashes the Klan" going to be distributed beyond the direct market too?

    I'm with JAK; the way forward is the general audience. As Robanker put it, the well's been poisoned (great way to put it man!) for the direct market.

    The "how" of that....I've spent way too much time considering alternatives to the direct market......and I think what might work is OGN's, designed around "seasons" released/advertised in digital and print, with heavy emphasis on social media WoM marketing and clever physical product placement with retailers (and Scholastic cannot be undersold if the product is aimed at kids; Scholastic is big). And not just for Clark, but for the industry in general. Clark has a few semi-unique obstacles here, largely due to audience bias and expectations that don't encourage quality narratives, but.....too specific for this conversation.

    Floppies are too slow for modern markets. We binge things now. So you forget floppies and you run a OGN every six months with a fully story. You structure it like a television season so it's easy to follow along (you start with season 1, then read season 2, duh!) and it's a narrative structure audiences are comfortable and familiar with.

    Print is.....in a weird place. It's not dying as quickly as it was, its even making a kind of comeback, but it's shifting into a different kind of "niche" style market while still retaining a fair amount of broadband appeal. So you dress the OGN's up with nice covers, some "behind the scenes" extras (just like a blu-ray would have), maybe an interview or two, etc. It'll raise the price a little but the higher production value will balance the supply-demand curve, and you drop a few cheaper copies without the extras or the super-nice cover for extra coverage (just like with DvD, blu-ray, blu-ray 4K, etc, options).

    You release the book digitally, for reasons that should be obvious, and you put a lot of effort and attention on that. Make it available from Amazon, the DC home site, every possible online retailer middle-man you can find, to ensure you get the widest possible exposure. You're breaking into new markets and kinda-sorta building something brand new; you don't worry about maximizing profit by cutting out middle-men at this point, you want those guys taking their cut because it's expanding your product awareness and building your customer base. Once you've got people hooked on your product, that's when you cut out the middle-men and make consumers follow you.

    Online WoM marketing is objectively the best strategy for all this, and you push the advertising hard, in every arena you advertise in. Any gamers remember when Overwatch was about to launch? Any site gamers might possibly go to online had Overwatch ads (including CBR). You need to be that omnipresent in your marketing. And if the movies and tv shows could take ten seconds out of their budget to name drop the DC app or comixology or something? That'd be great. Imagine how effective it would be if Steven Amell had been saying at the end of every episode for eight seasons "Thanks for watching! If you like the show, try the comics! Find them on the DC app!"

    And the physical copies.....you have to sell them with complimentary products. Put a rack of "Superman: Season 1" OGN's next to the movies and video games in Target, or the kids' section if the OGN is aimed at a younger crowd (target audiences are something else that matters a ton and I think the direct market is f**king this up a lot, but that's another thread). The thing DC did with Wal-Mart last year, with the original content books? Great basic idea, but from what I know most stores put those comics with the Magic: the Gathering and Pokemon cards; most of the people who go to that aisle are already into geek culture; they made their decision about these characters already. You want to grab the casuals; you want the guy who loves the MCU but has never picked up a comic in his life to see your product while he's buying the Endgame blu-ray, because he'll never walk down the Magic and Pokemon aisle to see the OGN.

    Gods, all this and so much more.....I could (and did) write a marketing strategy for this sorta thing that really impressed my professor, but that was thirty something pages long and....I just dont want to try and make anyone read all that!
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  11. #1106
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Well they are trying to bypass the direct market to tap in to the Scholastic audience with books like “Superman of Smallville”, so I hope that works out for them.
    I think it will, despite being underserved in mass entertainment for the past few years, Superman is still one of the most popular characters amongst the kids I teach. He's up there with Spider-Man, Batman, Harley Quinn, Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Cap, Flash and, surprisingly, Green Lantern. The movie has been a big boost for Aquaman, but who knows if that newfound popularity is only temporary.

    Superman & Supergirl are constantly being brought up by my younger students. There's something so simple and universal about the purity of those characters that still resonates with kids.

  12. #1107

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    Forgive me if i am being lazy. Did the ink and zoom version of supersons sell well? Did it reach its target audience (children)?

  13. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think it will, despite being underserved in mass entertainment for the past few years, Superman is still one of the most popular characters amongst the kids I teach. He's up there with Spider-Man, Batman, Harley Quinn, Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Cap, Flash and, surprisingly, Green Lantern. The movie has been a big boost for Aquaman, but who knows if that newfound popularity is only temporary.

    Superman & Supergirl are constantly being brought up by my younger students. There's something so simple and universal about the purity of those characters that still resonates with kids.
    I’m a little surprised Black Panther isn’t on that list. All the schools I’ve worked at have had kids who were obsessed with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Forgive me if i am being lazy. Did the ink and zoom version of supersons sell well? Did it reach its target audience (children)?
    I think it sold well. Not Raven well, but no one has sold Raven well.
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  14. #1109
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Isn't "Superman Smashes the Klan" going to be distributed beyond the direct market too?

    I'm with JAK; the way forward is the general audience. As Robanker put it, the well's been poisoned (great way to put it man!) for the direct market.

    The "how" of that....I've spent way too much time considering alternatives to the direct market......and I think what might work is OGN's, designed around "seasons" released/advertised in digital and print, with heavy emphasis on social media WoM marketing and clever physical product placement with retailers (and Scholastic cannot be undersold if the product is aimed at kids; Scholastic is big). And not just for Clark, but for the industry in general. Clark has a few semi-unique obstacles here, largely due to audience bias and expectations that don't encourage quality narratives, but.....too specific for this conversation.

    Floppies are too slow for modern markets. We binge things now. So you forget floppies and you run a OGN every six months with a fully story. You structure it like a television season so it's easy to follow along (you start with season 1, then read season 2, duh!) and it's a narrative structure audiences are comfortable and familiar with.

    Print is.....in a weird place. It's not dying as quickly as it was, its even making a kind of comeback, but it's shifting into a different kind of "niche" style market while still retaining a fair amount of broadband appeal. So you dress the OGN's up with nice covers, some "behind the scenes" extras (just like a blu-ray would have), maybe an interview or two, etc. It'll raise the price a little but the higher production value will balance the supply-demand curve, and you drop a few cheaper copies without the extras or the super-nice cover for extra coverage (just like with DvD, blu-ray, blu-ray 4K, etc, options).

    You release the book digitally, for reasons that should be obvious, and you put a lot of effort and attention on that. Make it available from Amazon, the DC home site, every possible online retailer middle-man you can find, to ensure you get the widest possible exposure. You're breaking into new markets and kinda-sorta building something brand new; you don't worry about maximizing profit by cutting out middle-men at this point, you want those guys taking their cut because it's expanding your product awareness and building your customer base. Once you've got people hooked on your product, that's when you cut out the middle-men and make consumers follow you.

    Online WoM marketing is objectively the best strategy for all this, and you push the advertising hard, in every arena you advertise in. Any gamers remember when Overwatch was about to launch? Any site gamers might possibly go to online had Overwatch ads (including CBR). You need to be that omnipresent in your marketing. And if the movies and tv shows could take ten seconds out of their budget to name drop the DC app or comixology or something? That'd be great. Imagine how effective it would be if Steven Amell had been saying at the end of every episode for eight seasons "Thanks for watching! If you like the show, try the comics! Find them on the DC app!"

    And the physical copies.....you have to sell them with complimentary products. Put a rack of "Superman: Season 1" OGN's next to the movies and video games in Target, or the kids' section if the OGN is aimed at a younger crowd (target audiences are something else that matters a ton and I think the direct market is f**king this up a lot, but that's another thread). The thing DC did with Wal-Mart last year, with the original content books? Great basic idea, but from what I know most stores put those comics with the Magic: the Gathering and Pokemon cards; most of the people who go to that aisle are already into geek culture; they made their decision about these characters already. You want to grab the casuals; you want the guy who loves the MCU but has never picked up a comic in his life to see your product while he's buying the Endgame blu-ray, because he'll never walk down the Magic and Pokemon aisle to see the OGN.

    Gods, all this and so much more.....I could (and did) write a marketing strategy for this sorta thing that really impressed my professor, but that was thirty something pages long and....I just dont want to try and make anyone read all that!
    Imo, all of this is perfect. To quote Donatello: "Genius. Pure genius!"
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

  15. #1110
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think it will, despite being underserved in mass entertainment for the past few years, Superman is still one of the most popular characters amongst the kids I teach. He's up there with Spider-Man, Batman, Harley Quinn, Iron Man, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Cap, Flash and, surprisingly, Green Lantern. The movie has been a big boost for Aquaman, but who knows if that newfound popularity is only temporary.

    Superman & Supergirl are constantly being brought up by my younger students. There's something so simple and universal about the purity of those characters that still resonates with kids.
    totally, despite the lack of real efforts to produce QUALITY Superman content for mass media, he is still popular among people of all ages. I always see people wearing his T-Shirts. The other day saw a big S on some car's window. He just needs better content that truly represents the best of him.


    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I know I say this a lot, but I wish there was a solid way to market his comics to kids and average adults again. Superman's never been the "cool guy" to the comics crowd - that's always gone to Batman/Wolverine/etc. Superman was always better with the general populace than with the hard core comics folks. A good number of them are, imo, pretty much a write-off.

    There has to be a way to market to the g.a., I'm just not exactly sure what it is.
    I completely agree, it's why I'd love to see a Super Pets animated movie and have cameos of Superman (and the JL) with his dog Krypto. If done well with plenty of heart, kids would love it. I felt the Teen Titans animated movie was too sarcastic. I don't want that for a Super Pets movie. It needs action but also heart. And yes, Superman needs new fans in the form of kids who have a more open mind.

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