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  1. #1111
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I’m a little surprised Black Panther isn’t on that list. All the schools I’ve worked at have had kids who were obsessed with him.
    Yes! I completely forgot about Black Panther and Shazam. Spider-Verse also boosted demand for Miles and Gwen

  2. #1112
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Isn't "Superman Smashes the Klan" going to be distributed beyond the direct market too?

    I'm with JAK; the way forward is the general audience. As Robanker put it, the well's been poisoned (great way to put it man!) for the direct market.

    The "how" of that....I've spent way too much time considering alternatives to the direct market......and I think what might work is OGN's, designed around "seasons" released/advertised in digital and print, with heavy emphasis on social media WoM marketing and clever physical product placement with retailers (and Scholastic cannot be undersold if the product is aimed at kids; Scholastic is big). And not just for Clark, but for the industry in general. Clark has a few semi-unique obstacles here, largely due to audience bias and expectations that don't encourage quality narratives, but.....too specific for this conversation.

    Floppies are too slow for modern markets. We binge things now. So you forget floppies and you run a OGN every six months with a fully story. You structure it like a television season so it's easy to follow along (you start with season 1, then read season 2, duh!) and it's a narrative structure audiences are comfortable and familiar with.

    Print is.....in a weird place. It's not dying as quickly as it was, its even making a kind of comeback, but it's shifting into a different kind of "niche" style market while still retaining a fair amount of broadband appeal. So you dress the OGN's up with nice covers, some "behind the scenes" extras (just like a blu-ray would have), maybe an interview or two, etc. It'll raise the price a little but the higher production value will balance the supply-demand curve, and you drop a few cheaper copies without the extras or the super-nice cover for extra coverage (just like with DvD, blu-ray, blu-ray 4K, etc, options).

    You release the book digitally, for reasons that should be obvious, and you put a lot of effort and attention on that. Make it available from Amazon, the DC home site, every possible online retailer middle-man you can find, to ensure you get the widest possible exposure. You're breaking into new markets and kinda-sorta building something brand new; you don't worry about maximizing profit by cutting out middle-men at this point, you want those guys taking their cut because it's expanding your product awareness and building your customer base. Once you've got people hooked on your product, that's when you cut out the middle-men and make consumers follow you.

    Online WoM marketing is objectively the best strategy for all this, and you push the advertising hard, in every arena you advertise in. Any gamers remember when Overwatch was about to launch? Any site gamers might possibly go to online had Overwatch ads (including CBR). You need to be that omnipresent in your marketing. And if the movies and tv shows could take ten seconds out of their budget to name drop the DC app or comixology or something? That'd be great. Imagine how effective it would be if Steven Amell had been saying at the end of every episode for eight seasons "Thanks for watching! If you like the show, try the comics! Find them on the DC app!"

    And the physical copies.....you have to sell them with complimentary products. Put a rack of "Superman: Season 1" OGN's next to the movies and video games in Target, or the kids' section if the OGN is aimed at a younger crowd (target audiences are something else that matters a ton and I think the direct market is f**king this up a lot, but that's another thread). The thing DC did with Wal-Mart last year, with the original content books? Great basic idea, but from what I know most stores put those comics with the Magic: the Gathering and Pokemon cards; most of the people who go to that aisle are already into geek culture; they made their decision about these characters already. You want to grab the casuals; you want the guy who loves the MCU but has never picked up a comic in his life to see your product while he's buying the Endgame blu-ray, because he'll never walk down the Magic and Pokemon aisle to see the OGN.

    Gods, all this and so much more.....I could (and did) write a marketing strategy for this sorta thing that really impressed my professor, but that was thirty something pages long and....I just dont want to try and make anyone read all that!
    To be honest, I'm genuinely convinced TV is the way to go, most likely something that aims at kids but is really fun for adults too. Comics will exist for people to spill into as they have with The Flash from CW (can you explain his popularity surge as anything but that? I genuinely can't). Or, frankly, fulfill the promise of the Rebirth run but make it a proper Superman/Lois/Jon show where each gets to shine. Tell stories, have one-offs or arcs be framed with Clark telling Jon about an old adventure of his (like a flashback in other shows). You can even do some "how I met your mother" flashback to whatever moments you want with Clark/Lois. For a status quo, I think it can work, but I'm not married to the idea. Whatever you do, really play with the tapestry of his history and stop trying to make him "cool." This is where the movies fail. They want to show you the things only he can do, but the moments everyone shares on Reddit or in person?

    That page of All-Star where he comforts a jumper.

    Chris Reeve pulling the cat out of a tree and smiling as he flies off.

    Conversations with other characters.

    Hell, Superman's solution to the force vs object problem was one of my favorite moments for how absolutely true to Superman it is. No good can come of conflict, ergo the two forces surrender. It's a great moment.

    It's rarely a feat of strength, but the movies bring that out every time and I can't blame them. It's the one place you can really see Superman cut loose, and that stuff is still cool to see (who didn't pump their fist when Superman delivered a cosmic haymaker in Justice League recently?). You're not going to drive 45 miles per hour on the autobahn. I totally get it... But the limits of the small screen allow you to really get into character work with Clark. We're at an age where you can still do some superheroics as well. With the love and attention he's putting into Metropolis, I'm not unconvinced Bendis shouldn't be part of the consulting crew (I'd put Jurgens and Rucka in there as well, for what it's worth).

    Video games have to deal with balancing issues (or just go the Telltale method, that would work great) and films bring out the worst impulses in studios, but I think the best balance can be caught on TV or streaming. My two cents, probably not worth even that, but I live in hope that the right balance of character and action exists in that format and we can get a cool show out of it.
    Last edited by Robanker; 09-19-2019 at 11:09 PM.

  3. #1113
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    September sales numbers:

    Superman 15 - 47,857

    Batman Superman 2 - 43,107

    Batman Superman 2 Card Stock - 18,943

    Action Comics 1015 - 35,696

    Action Comics 1015 Card Stock - 15,469

    Event Leviathan 4 - 34,185

    Event Leviathan 4 Card Stock - 13,179

    Lex Luthor Year of the Villain 1 - 27,563

    Lois Lane 3 - 23,728

    Supermans Pal Jimmy Olsen 3 - 18,120

    Superman Up In The Sky 3 - 17,391

    Supergirl 33 - 11,755

    Supergirl 33 Card Stock - 13,040

    Supergirl 34 - 11,847

    Supergirl 34 Card Stock - 12,362

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-09.html

  4. #1114
    Fantastic Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    Worth noting Superman 15 got a second printing.

  5. #1115
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    Worth noting Superman 15 got a second printing.
    It sold out? Interesting.

    Event Leviathan is something I’m not sure about. Was it expected to be a big event? Because then it’s a total flop. But otherwise I’m not sure how to judge it.

  6. #1116
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    September sales numbers:

    Superman 15 - 47,857

    Batman Superman 2 - 43,107

    Batman Superman 2 Card Stock - 18,943

    Action Comics 1015 - 35,696

    Action Comics 1015 Card Stock - 15,469

    Event Leviathan 4 - 34,185

    Event Leviathan 4 Card Stock - 13,179

    Lex Luthor Year of the Villain 1 - 27,563

    Lois Lane 3 - 23,728

    Supermans Pal Jimmy Olsen 3 - 18,120

    Superman Up In The Sky 3 - 17,391

    Supergirl 33 - 11,755

    Supergirl 33 Card Stock - 13,040

    Supergirl 34 - 11,847

    Supergirl 34 Card Stock - 12,362

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-09.html
    For books that been touted as universe changing and big events and written by "fan favorite" writers with relaunches, new series, some with returnability etc some of those numbers are bad.

  7. #1117
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    For books that been touted as universe changing and big events and written by "fan favorite" writers with relaunches, new series, some with returnability etc some of those numbers are bad.
    Sales for main Superman books are good. They are stable in the high 40k range every month.

  8. #1118
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Sales for main Superman books are good. They are stable in the high 40k range every month.
    Not really talking about them. SM sales have been that way for while. No matter the status quo, it seems he's average 40 k but Rebirth hasn't been all that long ago and DC giving so many incentives. Even he should be better even if not Batman level. Event Leviathan for example was supposed to be big, least that is how they seem to talk about it. But then that not a Superman book really because he's not in it. I'm taken aback at Supergirl's low sales, given she has tv show. Jimmy and Lois too are low...because they only out for 3 mths and DC put well known names on them and Superman/Clark been showing up. Just curious really as to wonder why some books sell and other don't.

  9. #1119
    Astonishing Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Not really talking about them. SM sales have been that way for while. No matter the status quo, it seems he's average 40 k but Rebirth hasn't been all that long ago and DC giving so many incentives. Even he should be better even if not Batman level. Event Leviathan for example was supposed to be big, least that is how they seem to talk about it. But then that not a Superman book really because he's not in it. I'm taken aback at Supergirl's low sales, given she has tv show. Jimmy and Lois too are low...because they only out for 3 mths and DC put well known names on them and Superman/Clark been showing up. Just curious really as to wonder why some books sell and other don't.
    Ahhhh you all can forgive me but for such a "long awaited", "genuine", "beloved version", encouraged with various alternate covers, card stock, events, full "family", appearing in almost every other major book and etc. 40k is very low! SM should be selling the same as Batman, who now seems to have become his fanboy! And don't even come to me with the idea that SM never sold as much as Batman because DC changed their entire line with Rebirth to make him a bestseller as the big bat!

  10. #1120
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    Not really talking about them. SM sales have been that way for while. No matter the status quo, it seems he's average 40 k but Rebirth hasn't been all that long ago and DC giving so many incentives. Even he should be better even if not Batman level. Event Leviathan for example was supposed to be big, least that is how they seem to talk about it. But then that not a Superman book really because he's not in it. I'm taken aback at Supergirl's low sales, given she has tv show. Jimmy and Lois too are low...because they only out for 3 mths and DC put well known names on them and Superman/Clark been showing up. Just curious really as to wonder why some books sell and other don't.
    Lois and Jimmy not selling great is no surprise, there’s a reason they’re minis. Gotham Central didn’t sell that great either, critical acclaim is what kept it going.

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lois and Jimmy not selling great is no surprise, there’s a reason they’re minis. Gotham Central didn’t sell that great either, critical acclaim is what kept it going.
    That and the fact that they aren't traditional superheroes with abilities, forever punching bad guys.

  12. #1122
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    Ahhhh you all can forgive me but for such a "long awaited", "genuine", "beloved version", encouraged with various alternate covers, card stock, events, full "family", appearing in almost every other major book and etc. 40k is very low! SM should be selling the same as Batman, who now seems to have become his fanboy! And don't even come to me with the idea that SM never sold as much as Batman because DC changed their entire line with Rebirth to make him a bestseller as the big bat!
    You have a good point. Rebirth was done for Superman tbh. Dc changed a whole new canon and lots of other characters books too and they are going to do the same for G5. So yes given they doing all this for the Superman mythos, and it is affecting other books, not in the Superman line, it supposed to be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lois and Jimmy not selling great is no surprise, there’s a reason they’re minis. Gotham Central didn’t sell that great either, critical acclaim is what kept it going.
    Matt Fraction and Greg Rucka names alone one would assume are big draws, having pedigree. If DC claims a writer is a fan favorite, we have to wonder, if a small group of fans buy yr product and all sing praises does that really make you a fan favorite or simply you have a limited audience and less critics? Critical acclaim and good sales I think should be what comics need to strive for. Minis is the reason why I expected better as well as the demand some fans have claimed for these supporting characters who they say Superman books cannot survive without. Gotham Central characters are less 'iconic' I would assume. Not everyone knows who Renee Montoya or Maggie Sawyer are. Maybe they will sell better in trade.

  13. #1123
    Astonishing Member Deiasilva10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lois and Jimmy not selling great is no surprise, there’s a reason they’re minis. Gotham Central didn’t sell that great either, critical acclaim is what kept it going.
    Critical aclaims don't pay bills, salaries or increase their chart positions...

  14. #1124
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    You have a good point. Rebirth was done for Superman tbh. Dc changed a whole new canon and lots of other characters books too and they are going to do the same for G5. So yes given they doing all this for the Superman mythos, and it is affecting other books, not in the Superman line, it supposed to be better.



    Matt Fraction and Greg Rucka names alone one would assume are big draws, having pedigree. If DC claims a writer is a fan favorite, we have to wonder, if a small group of fans buy yr product and all sing praises does that really make you a fan favorite or simply you have a limited audience and less critics? Critical acclaim and good sales I think should be what comics need to strive for. Minis is the reason why I expected better as well as the demand some fans have claimed for these supporting characters who they say Superman books cannot survive without. Gotham Central characters are less 'iconic' I would assume. Not everyone knows who Renee Montoya or Maggie Sawyer are. Maybe they will sell better in trade.
    Anyone who told you that Lois and Jimmy books were going to be big sellers was either talking through a hole in their head or exaggerating. No one I talked to ever pretended these would be big sellers in the floppies charts. The hope is that like Gotham Central, it’s their trade sales that will impress and return long term profits just like Gotham Central.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deiasilva10 View Post
    Critical aclaims don't pay bills, salaries or increase their chart positions...
    If all you care about is direct market sales then the only one with a solo ongoing should be Batman and the rest can be team up books with him. After all Batman sells right? Critically acclaimed books might not always be immediate successes but they can turn into long term ones. Again Gotham Central was a case of this.

  15. #1125
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellacre View Post
    You have a good point. Rebirth was done for Superman tbh. Dc changed a whole new canon and lots of other characters books too and they are going to do the same for G5. So yes given they doing all this for the Superman mythos, and it is affecting other books, not in the Superman line, it supposed to be better.
    Rebirth was done for a lot of properties (Wonder Woman, Titans, Superman, etc.).

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