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  1. #46
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I agree it's not a fix all, but part of the reason Superman and particularly Superman comics get a bad rap is,well,outside of some brief periods here and there, they mostly suck. Would Superman be smashing sales records and beating Batman comics under new management? Probably not, but this regime has been in place 13 years now. They've had plenty of chances to at least make the books worth reading again and they keep dropping the ball. It wouldn't hurt to get some fresh creative voices overseeing things for a while. Just because there is no guarantee for positive results doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.
    You admit that while some comics are bad by our personal standards, some aren't. If you dock points for bad projects you have to credit the same people when they're responsible for the good. Yet they're given little if any goodwill for Rucka, Robinson, Busiek, Morrison, Azzarello, Casey, Pak, Yang, Adventures, or Johns. If you get into how well the stories turned out vs how they were treated, keep in mind that the "best" of them in what Morrison did could only stand to compete with the mediocre Batman stories Daniel and Jenkins did. Pak was clearly out of the top 50 before his first arc even finished. The "fresh voices" people seem to mention don't really get into him or Yang anyway, it seems.

    Sorry if that all sounded argumentative, but I just think a valid point to acknowledge is that as much as we mention a regime change, it has a whole lot to do with who is or isn't buying. More so imo

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    The firing of Harras, Lee, Johns, Didio, or Berganza is not only unlikely to an extreme degree but makes zero sense business wise. But the main reason I find it annoying when presented as a solution is the assumption that "someone" will step in and make all the readers happy and put sales up. Looking at the charts, sales are up and have been climbing for at least a decade. It's just that most people don't care about buying Superman, and no guarantee can be made to change that.
    That's actually debatable.

    Didio and co. have done a lot of good things for DC. They created DCE to ensure smoother translations between comics and larger media, they initiated the same-day digital sales that the entire industry is benefiting from, and they've ushered in some pretty great comics content, far more than they get credit for.

    But they've also dropped the ball on a lot of things, and despite their efforts and buckets of money invested, have failed to really increase their market share or compete in cinema.

    In short, they're fairly stable and reliable managers, despite their creative missteps (which is a subjective point anyway) but they're not really improving the company's standing, in an age where superheroes and comic book properties have taken off and become one of the biggest genres on earth.

    WB could find better. They could find worse too, certainly, but Didio and co. have failed to take full advantage of the cultural shift.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That's actually debatable.

    Didio and co. have done a lot of good things for DC. They created DCE to ensure smoother translations between comics and larger media, they initiated the same-day digital sales that the entire industry is benefiting from, and they've ushered in some pretty great comics content, far more than they get credit for.

    But they've also dropped the ball on a lot of things, and despite their efforts and buckets of money invested, have failed to really increase their market share or compete in cinema.

    In short, they're fairly stable and reliable managers, despite their creative missteps (which is a subjective point anyway) but they're not really improving the company's standing, in an age where superheroes and comic book properties have taken off and become one of the biggest genres on earth.

    WB could find better. They could find worse too, certainly, but Didio and co. have failed to take full advantage of the cultural shift.
    DCE was created by WB in the wake of Disney buying Marvel that included the Marvel studios.
    same day digital sales are hard to know who gave the idea, but it was probably the guy responsible for digital content Hank kanalz.

    Any good credit of Lee and didio was completely undone by Lee and Didio screw ups. these guys are really eficient on that

  4. #49
    DC Enthusiast Tony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That's actually debatable.

    Didio and co. have done a lot of good things for DC. They created DCE to ensure smoother translations between comics and larger media, they initiated the same-day digital sales that the entire industry is benefiting from, and they've ushered in some pretty great comics content, far more than they get credit for.
    Actually it was Archie that led that charge since most of the sales of Archie books happen outside of comic stores they felt less pressure from the direct market not too. Everyone quickly followed suit when the door was opened.

    I actually think Didio dislikes digital and it shows by just how far behind Marvel they are.
    Last edited by Tony; 06-05-2016 at 12:17 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    The firing of Harras, Lee, Johns, Didio, or Berganza is not only unlikely to an extreme degree but makes zero sense business wise. But the main reason I find it annoying when presented as a solution is the assumption that "someone" will step in and make all the readers happy and put sales up. Looking at the charts, sales are up and have been climbing for at least a decade. It's just that most people don't care about buying Superman, and no guarantee can be made to change that.
    Hiring the right people might be better than keep the same guys that keep doing screw ups. DC really needs some new blood, johns won't be watching DC forever to keep it in line.
    Harras was fired because he was too safe, he became a big joke on marvel offices

  6. #51
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    Day 3

    Superman Rebirth #1 maintains the number 3 position.

    Minimum sales at 3002.

  7. #52
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    In short, they're fairly stable and reliable managers, despite their creative missteps (which is a subjective point anyway) but they're not really improving the company's standing, in an age where superheroes and comic book properties have taken off and become one of the biggest genres on earth.

    WB could find better. They could find worse too, certainly, but Didio and co. have failed to take full advantage of the cultural shift.
    It's really hard to determine that given the poor insight we have into their metrics or market performance. But what we do see is that they perform about the same against Marvel as they have for years. People assume that these huge movies will translate and it seems unrealistic when you see all sorts of Marvel properties blow up (compared to a few Batmen and a modest Superman presence) and have it fail to significantly transform the comic consumer culture.

    I'm more than fine admitting that my insight as a consumer is irrelevant, but in my experience I have to say that small increases don't usually result in sacking senior management.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    As title of the thread suggests, this thread is to keep track of and comment on the sales of the Superman line after the relaunch. Whatever your feelings about the current direction, good sales are more likely to help the Superman line than hurt it in the good run.

    We we won't have the numbers for print sales until a month from now, but we do have some info on digital sales.

    Superman Rebirth #1 is the 4th best selling of the day on Comixology, even selling more than Civil War 2 #1. Other new comics of note that it's outselling are All-New, All Different Avengers, Invincible Iron Man, Amazing Spider-Man, Old Man Logan. These comics chart well digitally, placing close to Ms. Marvel when they are released on the same week, so it's fair to say that Superman Rebirth is off to a great start in terms of digital sales.

    It's placement in the digital charts, means it sold at least a 1000 copies digitally on its first day.

    If some of you are wondering how I got that number when digital numbers aren't released, it's actually quite simple. Comixology has a best sellers list which keeps track of the best selling comics on a daily basis. There are 1004 comics on the list, meaning the the 1004th comic on the list has to sell at least 1 copy to make in onto the list, the 1003rd comic the list has to sell at least 2 copies to be ahead of the 1004th comic, etc. This means the 4th comic on the list, Superman Rebirth #1 has to have sold at least 1000 copies in order to secure it's placement on the list.

    As I said, this is a good start for Superman in terms of sales. It's not the first time the Superman books have charted this well digitally, but selling more than Civil War #2, Spider-Man, Avengers, and Iron Man is an achievement.
    Interesting - when was the last time Superman charted this high on comixology?

    This certainly also proves that there's definitely still interest in Superman - all DC have to do is keep to the basics and give him some proper marketing. = )

    (when I say basics, I mean, DON'T do stuff like "Truth" or "New Krypton")

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    Interesting - when was the last time Superman charted this high on comixology?

    This certainly also proves that there's definitely still interest in Superman - all DC have to do is keep to the basics and give him some proper marketing. = )

    (when I say basics, I mean, DON'T do stuff like "Truth" or "New Krypton")
    Superman #52 charted very well, maintaining the number 3 position for almost the entire week. It dropped to number 4 when the week was just about up, and moved down to number 4 while Steve Rogers #1 took the number 3 spot.

    "Truth" was actually charting very well for its first few issues, at least one issue of Superman or Action outsold an issue of Ms Marvel, but it couldn't maintain that momentum. DC's had a few titles that were doing very well digitally until eventually something went wrong. Batgirl and Grayson are two examples of that. Both were selling very well, outcharting bigger name comics, but have since charted much lower than they used to. With Batgirl I think it's due to delays and the loss of Babs Tarr as the only artist on the book, and with Grayson I think it's the loss of the original creative team.

    The impressive thing with Superman Rebirth #1 is that it's outselling Civil War #2. Only Batman Rebirth #1 and Walking Dead #155 are outselling it, and the Walking Dead is a massive digital seller which outsells Ms Marvel when they are released on the same day.

  10. #55
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    Day 4

    Superman Rebirth #1 remains in the number 3 position.

    Minimum sales at 4003.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    Day 4

    Superman Rebirth #1 remains in the number 3 position.

    Minimum sales at 4003.
    The fact that is continues to beat Civil War is very good.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    A few things come to mind in regard to this, and I'm really glad that Superman is charting at #3 here. Sad that he can't beat out Batman, but I'm not surprised by that given that Batman has been given priority treatment over Superman for years by WB. But anyway:

    The first thing in regard to Civil War II being in fifth place. I don't think it's just the price tag, Secret wars was just as high, I think, but I also suspect that it has something to do with the fact that a lot of Marvel fans right now are burned out from the delayed SW in the first place and it feels like Civil war came way to fast. Second thing is the story line in regard to what they're fighting over and why. It's very much a Minority Report sort of thing, and I think people are tired from the infighting with the marvel heroes right now and want some sort of break from it.

    Second thing is that I'm betting a good number of readers that ditched Superman when the 52 series came out are coming back and probably fans of Smallville as well are picking it up as it sort of feels like a continuation of the story in that respect. As well as younger readers who are now going into college or are older then they were when the new 52 came out, as well as fans of Supergirl and some fans of Man of Steel are buying into this. Price point too is a good way to go, and I think the fact that DC is pitching this as a more up beat feeling superman helps a lot.

    Lastly I don't get why some are thinking this change is due to shipping? The pairing of Lois and Clark has been around for ages, but I doubt that that drove DC to make this choice. I think they wanted to try something different with Superman that other series aren't willing to try. Also I have a feeling that they saw some of the numbers of Renew Your Vows and that helped them push this a bit more in that they probably can see Superman being more of a Family guy, also it works opposite of Batman who already has a son. So I don't think Shipping had anything to do with the choices made here.

  13. #58
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    This certainly also proves that there's definitely still interest in Superman - all DC have to do is keep to the basics and give him some proper marketing. = )

    (when I say basics, I mean, DON'T do stuff like "Truth" or "New Krypton")
    Or kill off Superman and replace him with a Superman from another dead universe that turns out to be sort of kind be our universe in disguise but manipulated by a guy from the Watchmen, and have this Superman be old and married with a 10 year old son who has powers and likes to fight bad guys, with the new old Superman who was wearing a black suit for a while but is now wearing a traditional Superman costume starting Wednesday and doesn't live in Metropolis, and where there is a separate guy named Clark Kent who works at the Daily Planet who is not this Superman. Oh, and some guy named Mr. Oz says both the dead Superman and Superdad are not who they think they are. Sounds like they are keeping to basics to me. Wait, um, no.

    Keeping to basics would have been to restore the new52 Superman's secret identity and job at the Daily Planet. That's simple. That's the classic Superman setup.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post
    Or kill off Superman and replace him with a Superman from another dead universe that turns out to be sort of kind be our universe in disguise but manipulated by a guy from the Watchmen, and have this Superman be old and married with a 10 year old son who has powers and likes to fight bad guys, with the new old Superman who was wearing a black suit for a while but is now wearing a traditional Superman costume starting Wednesday and doesn't live in Metropolis, and where there is a separate guy named Clark Kent who works at the Daily Planet who is not this Superman. Oh, and some guy named Mr. Oz says both the dead Superman and Superdad are not who they think they are. Sounds like they are keeping to basics to me. Wait, um, no.

    Keeping to basics would have been to restore the new52 Superman's secret identity and job at the Daily Planet. That's simple. That's the classic Superman setup.
    Do we really need to keep the classic Superman setup, though?

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    Day 3

    Superman Rebirth #1 maintains the number 3 position.

    Minimum sales at 3002.
    where do you get the 3002 from?

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