Keeping track of Post-Rebirth Superman sales

[Matt Rat]

So all the bitching and moaning largely seems to be posters letting a personal bias influence how they're looking at the numbers....

Biases work both ways.

I've said my piece, neither of us are going to agree. I will focus on the Superman I enjoy, as will you, but I will not be silent when the sales decrease

I take no pleasure in pointing out who I feel isn't delivering and why, but I have to say what I feel to be true, even if it is an unpopular piece. This thread isn't a pro-PKJ or even pro-Taylor echo chamber, this is a sales thread, and we're supposed to look at the data and assess what is moving the needle and what isn't.

Well, it doesn't seem like there's a way to bring ''a powerhouse era with stronger sales'' back.
And I'm satisfied with a run I like, and that's it.

I think it's entirely possible to reclaim that standard (see Waid), but if you're content with where it is, that's entirely fair.

[Ascended]

Biases work both ways.

Oh I know. And I'll argue for the creative quality of PKJ with those biases on full display. But looking at the numbers, I just don't see anything that's any worse than what we usually see, taking into account as best we can the state of things. They're not great numbers if you're looking for the glory days of yesteryear, but they're relatively consistent with the brand's sales trends and the market as a general whole.

If I did see legitimate problems in the numbers I'd be saying "What the hel is wrong with you people not buying this excellent run?"

And if you've felt attacked on these boards then that's a shame. You're welcome to post whatever unpopular opinion you want to. The people who disagree with debate it of course, but it shouldn't feel personal. I get it, I'll argue some real unpopular opinions here, like that Clark is actually really bad with family and that he will and has killed more than most of his peers. I'll argue that he's a habitual liar and hypocrite, and most people don't wanna hear it. But that's my analysis of the character taken from the source material and nobody has presented an argument strong enough to change my mind. So unpopular in these beliefs I remain. But I've never felt like anyone was coming at me over it, and you shouldn't have to either.

[BBally]

Bad news for Superman: Space Age, issue 1 peaked at 96.

[Vordan]

People need to wake up. For all the praise it gets, PKJ's run is tanking Action and it's not getting any better. The Warworld saga didn't work. Get rid of him already.

And put… who exactly? What super star writer at DC would raise sales? Nobody that I can think of. Tomasi and Jurgens had the benefit of a line wide relaunch. Bendis had his own relaunch. PKJ didn’t get that and they barely advertise his book. Only Jon gets any acknowledgement on the social media accounts. Besides Clark is coming back and returning to the “regular” status quo relatively soon anyway.

But I personally will take a run I like over a run that sells well that I don’t any day of the week. If something is garbage, like the second half of Tomasi’s run, I don’t care if it sells better because I won’t like that stuff. Taylor’s book sells better but that certainly doesn’t make me like his book more.

[Vordan]

Batman's name isn't always a guarantee of strong sales either. Urban Legends and I Am Batman didn't sell well last month.

Any King Batman project still charts, regardless of the quality. Doesn't matter what fans think of his run (he really isn't that bad, although I don't personally like Strange Adventures or much of Bat/Cat)

All I've said is that PKJ has not been the saviour of the books post-Bendis and his approach to storytelling leaves a great deal to be desired. This is my opinion and my truth, I shouldn't be told to go away for expressing it. Not everyone thinks this run is the bee's knees. Noone is more hated than those who tell the truth.

The honest truth is I have went away. I voted with my wallet and supported other books, because PKJ isn't doing it for me. I rarely post in this section of the forum anymore other than occasionally World's Finest threads. I am a Rebirth/Post-Reborn fan and like Jon as a kid, I like the Superfamily but my ideal state for it isn't coming back anytime soon, I'm seeing the price paid for Bendis and want to see change when something clearly isn't working out, but you all are so tribal and overprotective of Johnson you intimidate and shout down anyone who thinks differently from you.

No one has told you to go away but you can’t seem to handle people disagreeing with you. Whether you like the run or not is going to come down to your tastes, there’s no “objective” ruling for whether something is good or bad. Ranting that your taste is the one true judge of whether something is good or not is going to annoy people however.

I'm a little surprised that Kara did that well in trade, I didn't think she had that much of a following

She doesn’t, King does. His Superman Dark Crisis one shot also seems to have sold well. For all the bitching about King he’s the only “super star” writer DC has, he’s able to make C-Listers viable because of his brand.

Yeah, sales aren't what we'd like them to be, but that's a problem with DC across the board, it's not a problem with the Super books specifically.

Isn’t Wonder Woman in the 100s also? And Aquamen debuted down there too? And GL doesn’t even have a book, nor does Titans or the JSA? DC as a whole is in the shitter. People were comparing Infinite Frontier to ANAD Marvel and sales wise that definitely seems to be the case. They need to do a likewise relaunch or pull out of the direct market because their sales at this point are truly terrible.

What I would do is relaunch Superman with PKJ since that book gets more attention. Let him continue his story there. Meanwhile let Waid take over Action and set that in the same time period as Batman/Superman. That way you get one book dealing with old Superdad who is outed publicly and the other one is dealing with a young unmarried still possessing a secret identity “classic” Superman.

[Myskin]

What I would do is relaunch Superman with PKJ since that book gets more attention. Let him continue his story there. Meanwhile let Waid take over Action and set that in the same time period as Batman/Superman. That way you get one book dealing with old Superdad who is outed publicly and the other one is dealing with a young unmarried still possessing a secret identity “classic” Superman.

I am not entirely sure that this would actually boost the sales - and not because I don't think that PKJ can be an interesting writer. You are assuming that there are two different types of audience - people who are interested in classic Superman and people who are interested in modern-day Superman, with a son and no secret ID, and having two different series would make both types of readers happy. However, IMHO the idea that the audience is actually split regarding Superman is an illusion, because those who buy Superman comics belong to one category - middle-aged Superman collectors. And no matter how vocal they can be on forums or Facebook - they buy all the Superman regular series. They buy the Jon Kent series AND Action Comics. They'd buy classic Superman AND PKJ's Superman. The differences in numbers between SSOKE and AC are not particularly relevant IMHO, because they depend on occasional readers, people interested in single events, people who don't read comics but they will buy 2-3 issues of SSOKE after reading some headlines about Superman's bi son, etc. But they are negligible differences when you take into account that those numbers refer to the entirety of the US. There may be some differences in terms of sold copies, but in general the sales are just quite shitty. And - as I said earlier - they are even shittier when you compare them to the past eras, when Superman sold a lot.

You suggest that DC should make a line-wide reboot, and I don't know - maybe it would help, but the problem is WHAT and HOW they'd actually relaunch. Because the only type of reboot I can see as vaguely successful would be something along the lines of the post-Crisis relaunch. A relaunch for the XXI century, of course, and with an eye to new readers - readers who have been reading mangas and have never tried superhero books. Which doesn't mean that all the DC characters should be written as manga characters, or that the series should ape the style and the narrative of mangas (as they sometimes do these days). It means that they should sell these 80-year-old characters to people who may vaguely recognize them, but don't know them, they are not invested in the stories and they have literally zero reasons to read them. Which means that they should finally, FINALLY stop treating Superman as an icon, or an emblem, or a symbol, and finally start treating him as a character. With flaws, weaknesses and ethical positions which are not necessarily simplistic slogans like "truth and justice and whatever". And they should also introduce a new mythology - including, but not necessarily limited to Krypton - which doesn't look or sound like something from the 1950s. The popular idea that the first page of All Star Superman (Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists, etc) is all you need to know about Superman is a myth, at least as far as regular series are concerned. It IS different if you introduce Krypton as a cold dystopia, something out of a Flash Gordon serial, or a biomechanical nightmare. And it IS different if the Kents are presented as a loving but realistic couple, or something out of a Norman Rockwell painting. These concepts are the pillars you build the entire character upon, especially when you have to present him to an audience who has literally zero reason to read Superman. It's not easy to understand as long as you are not out of the loop as I am now. Underwear, no Underwear, Legion, no Legion - these are just details, similarly to most of the changes introduced or discarded in the latest couple of decades, which all lacked a general, longterm vision of what to do with this character (including the New 52, as far as I am concerned). Plus: the stories should actually be good and compressed - basically, they should start believing in comic books again, as an independent medium, instead of a box of contents which they want to keep alive just to promote the next TV series.

And you know what - EVEN in that case they wouldn't be 100% sure that it would sell, because young readers may not accept it anyway and some old fans may not feel like reading a character they would not recognize. But you know what - I have a feeling that the longtime readers Superman is left with right now would read a relaunched Superman, too. Maybe they would protest on Twitter, but they would read it. I mean - there are people who keep reading Superman after 4-5 different, increasingly confusing origins and probably read Dark Crisis too, even if it is the umpteenth riff on COIE. Some readers are basically impossible to discourage. I mean, I supported for years Loeb and Kelly's cyberpunk Metropolis and I get positive vibes from PKJ, but when I read in some interviews that he wants to build a new, presumably futuristic Metropolis in his upcoming stories, my first thought was: Jesus Christ, AGAIN?

[Jeffrey2]

I am not entirely sure that this would actually boost the sales - and not because I don't think that PKJ can be an interesting writer. You are assuming that there are two different types of audience - people who are interested in classic Superman and people who are interested in modern-day Superman, with a son and no secret ID, and having two different series would make both types of readers happy. However, IMHO the idea that the audience is actually split regarding Superman is an illusion, because those who buy Superman comics belong to one category - middle-aged Superman collectors. And no matter how vocal they can be on forums or Facebook - they buy all the Superman regular series. They buy the Jon Kent series AND Action Comics. They'd buy classic Superman AND PKJ's Superman. The differences in numbers between SSOKE and AC are not particularly relevant IMHO, because they depend on occasional readers, people interested in single events, people who don't read comics but they will buy 2-3 issues of SSOKE after reading some headlines about Superman's bi son, etc. But they are negligible differences when you take into account that those numbers refer to the entirety of the US. There may be some differences in terms of sold copies, but in general the sales are just quite shitty. And - as I said earlier - they are even shittier when you compare them to the past eras, when Superman sold a lot.

You suggest that DC should make a line-wide reboot, and I don't know - maybe it would help, but the problem is WHAT and HOW they'd actually relaunch. Because the only type of reboot I can see as vaguely successful would be something along the lines of the post-Crisis relaunch. A relaunch for the XXI century, of course, and with an eye to new readers - readers who have been reading mangas and have never tried superhero books. Which doesn't mean that all the DC characters should be written as manga characters, or that the series should ape the style and the narrative of mangas (as they sometimes do these days). It means that they should sell these 80-year-old characters to people who may vaguely recognize them, but don't know them, they are not invested in the stories and they have literally zero reasons to read them. Which means that they should finally, FINALLY stop treating Superman as an icon, or an emblem, or a symbol, and finally start treating him as a character. With flaws, weaknesses and ethical positions which are not necessarily simplistic slogans like "truth and justice and whatever".

It's the age-old question. Is Superman relevant anymore? John Campea and team addressed this question several days ago. As in if WBD makes another Superman film will audiences show up? Check it out at 46 minutes or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60lTt6tbsU

Rob Burnett thinks audiences would turn out - if there is a great script. He also pointed to Captain America. That character is 80 years old and was fighting Nazi's in the 40s in comic strips. Today not only is Cap a huge successful film franchise, but his books sell in the top 25.
DC comics will undergo a revamp with Zaslav. I assume WBD keeps it in house and also eliminates many titles. Beyond that lies the hard part - getting readers interested in Superman again.

[Ascended]

She doesn’t, King does. His Superman Dark Crisis one shot also seems to have sold well. For all the bitching about King he’s the only “super star” writer DC has, he’s able to make C-Listers viable because of his brand.

Oh yeah, I forget that King wrote that. Makes more sense now. I mean, Kara's been around forever and has a respectable profile in larger media built across decades and she wears the "S" so I'm sure she'd sell okay-ish anyway, but King's name on the cover does make a lot of difference. And as long as he's doing his own thing in his own corner it's usually pretty good, it's only when he gets put on the big tentpole projects that his writing sucks.

You suggest that DC should make a line-wide reboot, and I don't know - maybe it would help, but the problem is WHAT and HOW they'd actually relaunch.

I'll do you one better; WHERE they'd actually relaunch.

The direct market is a very small pond full of, as you say, 40 year old readers who've been around for twenty+ years with deeply entrenched preferences and buying habits. What're the odds that another big reboot/relaunch will get the established fans who aren't reading DC or Superman to start reading, and then stick around? Because we know such efforts don't create a big influx of *new* fans.

In recent history we've seen DC do classic relaunches and "everything is new" reboots. Both provide a short-term sales spike that dries up within 24 issues or so, then suffers from diminishing returns and sales settle where they started (at best) or a little lower. We already know that the questions of "WHAT" and "HOW" always have the same disappointing result, regardless of how DC spins things.

I know I harp about this all the time and y'all are probably tired of hearing it, but if DC really wants to repair the damage done to their brands and grow their fanbase, the direct market isn't the place they should focus on. It is not a growth market. DC can't control the advertising or marketing on the local level, and hobby shops don't tend to advertise much, not to mention there's tons of places around the country that don't have any.

At best, DC'd be fighting to gain a bigger slice of the already small pond that is the direct market, which means trying to entice hardcore, established fans to read books they've never read or dropped so long ago it makes no difference. Every single aspect of a direct market relaunch/reboot is an uphill battle that guarantees nothing except splitting the fanbase between those who liked what they had, and those who like the new changes.

Seems wiser to me to leave the direct market as it is. Do what you can within it, it's still making money so there's no reason to abandon it, but this is not where new DC fans will be created. Just keep your head above water while the direct market continues to dry up, and put your real effort into gaining new fans in the bookstore/manga and Scholastic markets, digital, etc. DC knows this, we see an ever-increasing effort in the OGN's and webtoon stuff. I think an interconnected line of OGN's that share a continuity would be easier and more profitable than a direct market revamp, with less risk and more potential gain. We've already seen a taste of this, with the interconnected Raven-Beast Boy books (and I think there's a Robin one upcoming too?) and those are selling pretty well. I wonder how much DC could sell if they launched a larger wave of such books, with a strong marketing/advertising push behind it? Even a moderate success would likely generate more revenue over a longer period than another direct market reboot.

Direct market simply isn't worth fighting over. Time to move on to greener, wider pastures.

[Myskin]

It's the age-old question. Is Superman relevant anymore? John Campea and team addressed this question several days ago. As in if WBD makes another Superman film will audiences show up? Check it out at 46 minutes or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60lTt6tbsU

Rob Burnett thinks audiences would turn out - if there is a great script. He also pointed to Captain America. That character is 80 years old and was fighting Nazi's in the 40s in comic strips. Today not only is Cap a huge successful film franchise, but his books sell in the top 25.
DC comics will undergo a revamp with Zaslav. I assume WBD keeps it in house and also eliminates many titles. Beyond that lies the hard part - getting readers interested in Superman again.

In this specific thread I am concerned with the comic books, not the movies. I haven't read DC books on a regular basis in years, but I have kept reading Image, underground books, bedé, historietas and mangas. With all the ups and downs, in every field of comics world there is something enjoyable or relevant, and there's often PLENTY of recent books which I personally enjoy and other comics which I DON'T enjoy because I am not part of their target, but whose quality is quite evident nonetheless. IMHO only superhero books are sinking into a crisis which is apparently insurmountable. I strongly doubt that Zaslav will provide any kind of solution, because the problem is at the root. The current mindset is using the books just as a source of contents to be exploited elsewhere else, in more lucrative fields. Why should they put some efforts in relaunching the comics if no one in the field believes in comic books as a lucrative form of art anymore? It's a problem with no solution. As far as I am concerned they could even make the best Superman movie ever and I may even be interested in watching it, but there's stuff you can do in comics which you can't do in movies (and vice versa, of course). All in all, Levitz was right when he said that DC was safer as long as WB didn't realize the potential of its IPs (or something like that).

I'll do you one better; WHERE they'd actually relaunch. /CUT/

As you know I don't live in the US, but I guess that what you are saying is 100% true. Two points - a personal one and a more general one.
1- I guess that this concerns mostly personal tastes, but as far as I remember most of DC's attempts to expand their lines concerns stuff like DC zoom or ink or whatever it was called, which - for the most part - was basically an attempt to create Young Adults-like comics for people who buy Young Adults books. I guess that there may an audience for stuff like that, but IMHO there's a problem - they are not superhero books, but rather Young Adults stories with a strong emphasis on romance and friendship, whose main characters are incidentally superheroes too. I don't think that it is the right direction, quite frankly. Superhero books should be about adventures, fantasies, thriller stories, mystical quests, horror and sci-fi - that's the main reason why they were created for. I am not saying this as a traditionalist (which I am not). I just think that it's as if the publisher is wasting the potential of the characters by forcing them into a direction which doesn't really fit them - which doesn't mean that there shouldn't be introspective issues or stories where no one punches anyone else. Again, what I am thinking of is mangas - the most successful ones, like Attack on Titans or My Hero Academia or One Piece or Chainsaw Man, are about the thrill and the adventure with well-defined characters. There are excellent mangas which are just introspective, of course. But the characters for those stories where created with that specific purpose in mind. The model IMHO should be stuff like Berserk - not in terms of horror, violence or something like that - but in terms of fully exploiting the visionary aspects of comics and the thrill of reading about adventures in other worlds.
I mean, Berserk is huge. HUGE. I really can't think of anything else in the field of superhero books in the latest decades - DC or Marvel - which is even vaguely comparable in terms of relevance, recognizability and popularity.

2- The second problem is that I don't know how long it would take for the readers to get used to the new market. France started selling comics in bookshops 30 years ago or so, and from that moment on they became more and more culturally relevant and successful - which they still are as far as I have seen. But I guess that mangas are not in the direct market either (maybe I am a bit confused about what "direct market" actually means), and since mangas are basically kicking DC's butt in terms of sales, I guess that it wouldn't be much of a problem.

[Vordan]

I am not entirely sure that this would actually boost the sales - and not because I don't think that PKJ can be an interesting writer. You are assuming that there are two different types of audience - people who are interested in classic Superman and people who are interested in modern-day Superman, with a son and no secret ID, and having two different series would make both types of readers happy.

That’s part of it but I was also thinking in terms of
1. If you have two Superman ongoings you need to differentiate the two from each other. Zdarsky’s Batman and Ram V’s Detective Comics are going for very different vibes. Superman and Action should try to do likewise.
2. Waid doesn’t like the post marriage status quo and I think he would put out better work in a status quo more to his taste. Also Superman’s continuity is totally fucked so letting Waid give him more concrete “early adventures” that can be referenced would be nice.

[Ascended]

As you know I don't live in the US, but I guess that what you are saying is 100% true. Two points - a personal one and a more general one.

Probably not 100%. I'm not a industry insider (as you know) so there's certainly all manner of quirks and traits unique to this industry and this specific company that change the business basics I'm using to evaluate things. I'm confident in my analysis only as far as my base of knowledge goes, which isn't near deep enough for me to be 100% right, I'm sure. But where standard business principals apply (and I'm not missing big chunks of important data) then I'm probably not too far off the money.

1- far as I remember most of DC's attempts to expand their lines concerns stuff like DC zoom or ink or whatever it was called, which - for the most part - was basically an attempt to create Young Adults-like comics for people who buy Young Adults books.

You're half right. DC has attempted to break into a number of different markets and demographics, but the ones that have most often been successful, the ones we remember because of that, have largely been built around that YA audience, yes. We remember stuff like Beast Boy Loves Raven because it's popular and we've seen it around a lot (even if we ourselves aren't interested in it), but stuff like the Earth-1 line of OGN's we usually forget about, unless we're remembering how badly the initiative spluttered and failed.

However, DC's failures to break into other markets is less about those markets not being viable at all, and mostly about DC not doing a good job of it. In some cases they've started out strong, only to get bored and give up partway through the saturation phase. Sometimes they've given up completely after only one or two projects failed to meet projections. Often, they've tried to break into new markets and demographics by offering the same kind of content they'd offer us, instead of making content that would appeal to, and work within, those markets. Those efforts always fall flat real quick.

In 2011 DC tried to break into digital comics by selling "normal" comic content to a market that wasn't very interested in "normal" comic content. And they tried doing it with a "normal" comics sales model when the digital market wasn't interested in that either. Right now in 2022, DC is having all kinds of success with webtoons because they're making the content for those webtoon fans instead of us, in a format/methodology that works with that market's normal modus operandi.

DC doesn't have to turn itself into a YA publisher, that's merely the first new market they've successfully broken into. They just need to match the style and flavor of content with the right market and audience. Our particular kind of superheroics isn't in danger, there's still a huge audience for that sort of thing. DC might eventually (years and years from now most likely) have to leave the direct market to sell it, but that just means we will be buying a OGN "trade" in the "adult sci-fi/fantasy" section of a bookstore, instead of getting a weekly comic at a tiny shop.

2- The second problem is that I don't know how long it would take for the readers to get used to the new market.

Primarily, you're not trying to bring old Wednesday Warriors with you to the new market, you're looking to get the fresh blood readers already within those markets. You're not making a Shonen style Jon Kent Superboy book so floppy comic fans can buy it, you're making it so established Shonen manga fans will buy it. And if us Wednesday Warriors buy it too, then that's awesome, but it's just icing on the cake.

maybe I am a bit confused about what "direct market" actually means

By and large it refers to hobby shops that deal in the weekly shipment of our beloved overpriced, twenty page comic books. I dunno how things work out your way, but in the States you usually don't see comics in, say, a grocery store or a big retail chain, the same way you would tabloids and magazines like Time or National Geographic or Vanity Fair. Here, you mostly only see comics in hobby shops, which are usually small owner-operated businesses that specialize in nerdy things like comics, card games like Magic the Gathering, and D&D. The distribution of these comics is handled by a couple companies that're (partially) outside the usual distribution systems used by magazines (which often ride on retail distributors I think?) and bookstores like Barnes & Noble. Legally, comics are grouped with "regular" magazines when it comes to all kinds of anti-trust laws and such, but....that's getting off topic and doesn't really matter in most conversations.

[ZuLuLu]

It's not a popular direction at all. Johnson's run is a decompressed borefest with no stakes thanks to Dark Crisis, and Jon's audience simply don't buy comics.

They don't buy monthly at comic book stores as much as older comic fans but they do purchase digital and trades which is why Jon's book is usually the top-selling DC book digitally the week of its release usually the top 3 and also beats most Marvel titles that come out the next day.

Right now Superman: SOKE #14 is ranked at number 4 in New Releases with only books like A.X.E.: Judgment Day, DCeased: War of the Undead Gods, and Amazing Spider-Man ranked higher.

While I am very critical of how icv2 ranking is done, the first volume of SOKE was in the top 10.

Update:

The trade release of Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow made the Top 20 Graphic Novel charts for both Units and Dollars

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...vels-july-2022

First issue of Superman: Space Age only made the top 20 in the Dollars charts for floppies, though I see this doing better as a trade release down the line.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/...mics-july-2022

This is where I am critical of icv2 rankings.

The reason why Action Comics usually ranks so low on this chart is that it comes out in the last week of the month, so in the case of Action Comics #1045 icv2 system only takes into account about 6 days of sales when compared to SOKE #13 that comes out on the second week in the month so about 18 days of sales are taking into account in this ranking system. That is why the preceding Action Comics issue gets re-solicited almost every month.

This highlights one of my issues with this chart's ranking system it can be a bit misleading.

A recent example of how the day of release can affect ranking is Mile's Spider-Man book, in June it released two issues. Miles Morales Spider-Man #38 released on June 1st ranked no.6 on the chart, whereas Miles Morales Spider-Man #39 released on June 22nd ranked no.57, this issue was also re-solicited in the next month's chart.

That said if a book has really strong sales like Batman or Amazing Spider-Man release dates don't really affect their ranking much.

[HsssH]

Yeah, for all we know Action is selling more in comic book shops than SOKE.

As for Supergirl, getting into Top 10 of graphic novels on release month is not that difficult, what matters if it is going to have staying power and won't drop from all the charts entirely next month.

[Myskin]

However, DC's failures to break into other markets is less about those markets not being viable at all, and mostly about DC not doing a good job of it. In some cases they've started out strong, only to get bored and give up partway through the saturation phase. Sometimes they've given up completely after only one or two projects failed to meet projections. Often, they've tried to break into new markets and demographics by offering the same kind of content they'd offer us, instead of making content that would appeal to, and work within, those markets. Those efforts always fall flat real quick.

Yeah, you are right - I had definitely forgotten the Earth-One stuff (thankfully). Which, in addition to all of the flaws we already know, had one more, too: now that I think about it, the stories didn't actually fit a 144-page book - it was as if the writers had written 5-6 scripts with the 22-page format in mind and then these "virtual", separate issues had been collected for the release of the OGN. Everything about the development of the plot sounded off and sometimes the stories were too decompressed - IMHO it was clear that the writers weren't actually used to writing in this format. The books provided a content which was too similar to the one from the floppies anyway, even in the case of Morrison's Wonder Woman IMHO, apart from some (bland) provocations.

By and large it refers to hobby shops that deal in the weekly shipment of our beloved overpriced, twenty page comic books. I dunno how things work out your way, but in the States you usually don't see comics in, say, a grocery store or a big retail chain, the same way you would tabloids and magazines like Time or National Geographic or Vanity Fair. Here, you mostly only see comics in hobby shops, which are usually small owner-operated businesses that specialize in nerdy things like comics, card games like Magic the Gathering, and D&D. The distribution of these comics is handled by a couple companies that're (partially) outside the usual distribution systems used by magazines (which often ride on retail distributors I think?) and bookstores like Barnes & Noble. Legally, comics are grouped with "regular" magazines when it comes to all kinds of anti-trust laws and such, but....that's getting off topic and doesn't really matter in most conversations.

Ok, thanks (may I have already asked you this question in this past? Should it be the case, sorry).
I'll tell you how it works in my country, just for discussion's sake. Until the 1980s, comics were bought more or less exclusively in newsstands. Basically you had newspapers, magazines and comics in the same place. Sales were huge, mostly as far as local comic books were concerned (in some years there were monthly, 98-page black and white books which sold even 700,000 copies at a very low price). Later, in the 1990s, the first comic book stores opened; and even if it was possible to buy stuff like Magic and action figures, they mainly sold comic books as well (both the "popular" ones which you could find in newsstands too, and other stuff - generally considered a bit harder to sell but artistically relevant - like Enki Bilal's graphic novels). This situation lasted more or less until the 2000s/2010s.

In recent years there have been more changes, though. Local newsstands are quickly disappearing, so the market had to adapt. "Popular", 98-page comic books still sell relatively well even if the numbers are not the same of the latest decades (200,000 copies on a monthly basis in the best of cases). There are way, way more comic book stores than in the past, and way more comics - but they sell less than they used to do, so it is easier to find shelves full of crap like Funko Pops or whatever they are called, Harry Potter merchandising etc.
The real, big change is that comic book publishers have basically invaded "regular" bookstores (actually you could find some comics in bookstores in the past too, but it was a very rare occurrence and only very specific books - Asterix, for example - sold really well). So right now in a bookstore you can find shelves with books by Charles Dickens and Stephen King, shelves for sci-fi books and shelves uniquely for comics. This led to more changes in the format - publishers started to make hardcover OGNs which are sold exclusively in bookstores/comic books stores. Publishers of popular, 98-page best sellers of the past decades started to reprint their classic stories in luxury hardcovers - also for bookstores.

Have the sales improved? Hard to say. Basically right now we have way, way more comics - and in more elegant, expensive formats, but they sell less than in the past. An interesting detail is that in the 1960s-2000s, when comics generally sold a LOT, the two contexts - books and comic books - were completely split. If you wanted a "real" book (Hemingway, Wilbur Smith) you had to go to a bookstore. If you wanted comics, you had to go to a newsstand or a comic book store. And one more interesting aspect is that in the Golden Age of sales press and TV more or less ignored the existence of comics if not for very rare occurrences - basically it was as if buying comics was more of a widespread tradition, or as if the market was thriving and self-contained at the same time. You went to a newsstand, you bought your favorite comics and maybe you also tried another comic book which you had never tried up to that moment, or even an issue of anthological magazines or more "artistic", groundbreaking comic book artists. In recent years, press and TV have started to focus more on comics, so people who have never read comic books may feel like buying an OGN they have heard about while watching the news. But I wouldn't say that this led to a new boom of sales if not for very peculiar cases.

The most recent development, however, is that the only comics which are really flourishing right now (and again, press and TV news have basically ignored them up to this moment) are mangas. Stuff like One Piece can sell approximately 15'000 copies a week in regular bookstores, that is without taking into account comic book stores and in the remaining newsstands, where mangas are sold as well (and IMHO the sales are even better). So basically right now in bookstores we have shelves just for comic books (DC/Marvel, European OGNs, reprints) and way wider shelves exclusively for mangas - from popular books such as Demon Slayer to more classic stuff like Tezuka.

Oh, and by the way - digital sales are basically non-existent. 99% of comic books, mangas included, are sold in physical copies.

One interesting aspect though, which is generally overlooked, is the format. I can't express myself regarding the US, but IMHO it is absolutely, 100% clear that 22-page books at $3.99 have to go. It's suicidal, it doesn't make sense and IMHO it is no coincidence that the comic books which sell the best in my country have always been 98-page monthly softcovers in black and white (right now the price is € 4.40, which is way higher than in the past but still relatively affordable) or 200-page manga tankobons at € 4.50. I mean, we can delve into the details of traditions and recognizable formats, but what DC and Marvel completely fail to realize is that the type of comics they are supposed to release should be popular books. Which means that the price should be affordable and there should be enough compressed story, and the content should be substantial enough for the readers not to think that they have wasted their money. IMHO the winning format today is the same as yesterday - something similar to classic, compact, affordable pulp-ish books (which tankobons are more or less the modern equivalent of). And even if the prices may vary depending on other details (coloured books or black and white?), this direction - or something very similar to it - is the one DC should go for.

[The Frog Bros]

That’s part of it but I was also thinking in terms of
1. If you have two Superman ongoings you need to differentiate the two from each other. Zdarsky’s Batman and Ram V’s Detective Comics are going for very different vibes. Superman and Action should try to do likewise.
2. Waid doesn’t like the post marriage status quo and I think he would put out better work in a status quo more to his taste. Also Superman’s continuity is totally fucked so letting Waid give him more concrete “early adventures” that can be referenced would be nice.

Yep, agreed. Prob my biggest gripe with the Bendis run was that they gave him the keys to the whole kingdom, both books. To be sure, I def didn't like everything he did, but there was quite a bit that I did actually like.

Currently, I'm a pretty huge fan of PKJ AC. Don't love Taylor's Jon (I like Williamson Jon in DC more so far), but I am at least glad its not the same person writing both books.

In the proverbial perfect world, I'd gladly take AC, Superman, and a Jon book, all with different writers, each with their own vibe. Dare to dream.