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  1. #1366
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Actually believe it or not but it seems sales have actually rose for the Big 2. Death Metal is outselling Metal. Multiple creators have said their indie trades are selling well. People are hungry for escape it seems (can’t imagine why ). Jim Lee has even explicitly said DC’s sales have rose during the pandemic.
    I think they said sales rose compared to what they were earlier in the pandemic when sales tanked because of distribution problems. So it is probably tough to gauge what the sales truly are now. Although right now DC has Three Jokers, Joker War, and Death Metal with a Jokerized Batman as the main bad guy. So DC pretty much hit the emergency Joker button to try and save their sales as people love the Joker so much and he can move a ton of books, haha.

  2. #1367
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    There's also the problem of local comic shops shutting down due to the pandemic.

  3. #1368
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I did kind of have to sigh at the top 5 all being Batbooks. I truly don’t know how to get the other areas of the DCU up to par but I’ll continue to hope.
    Long term investment, effort, and push. Events that don't center around Batman. Characters not jobbing to Bruce at all times. Characters that aren't treated as if the company itself would rather be making Batman comics instead, and get some solid respect and treatment? I don't think there's any quick fix to this, DC's quality outside the Bat has been so shifty for so long, and they've spit on their own IP's for so long, I don't think they'll quickly convince readers to broaden their horizons again.

    I find the whole thing fascinating; Batman's rise to the top was just.....providence. Good timing. Luck. Just meeting the demand. But the whole thing has become this grotesque monstrosity of a snake eating itself; the way DC has ended up utilizing their biggest asset seems to be actively devaluing all their others, resulting in a more-and-more Bat-dependent market, and now I dont know if DC could reverse course if they wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I think they said sales rose compared to what they were earlier in the pandemic when sales tanked because of distribution problems. So it is probably tough to gauge what the sales truly are now. Although right now DC has Three Jokers, Joker War, and Death Metal with a Jokerized Batman as the main bad guy. So DC pretty much hit the emergency Joker button to try and save their sales as people love the Joker so much and he can move a ton of books, haha.
    Oh wow, they really did hit the "panic Joker" button didn't they?

    And I'd imagine sales are just being compared to this past spring and summer, they're probably just counting since the new distributors started. But you never know. People have spent a lot more time inside this year, aren't spending their "throw away" cash on movie tickets or vacations (if they have any throw away cash at all), and it's not like sales were at an all time high to begin with right?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #1369
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I think they said sales rose compared to what they were earlier in the pandemic when sales tanked because of distribution problems. So it is probably tough to gauge what the sales truly are now. Although right now DC has Three Jokers, Joker War, and Death Metal with a Jokerized Batman as the main bad guy. So DC pretty much hit the emergency Joker button to try and save their sales as people love the Joker so much and he can move a ton of books, haha.
    Suicide Squad sales seem to have rose higher than they were pre pandemic though. Last I checked pre pandemic SS was in the low 10k range, now they seem to be in the 20k range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Long term investment, effort, and push. Events that don't center around Batman. Characters not jobbing to Bruce at all times. Characters that aren't treated as if the company itself would rather be making Batman comics instead, and get some solid respect and treatment? I don't think there's any quick fix to this, DC's quality outside the Bat has been so shifty for so long, and they've spit on their own IP's for so long, I don't think they'll quickly convince readers to broaden their horizons again.

    I find the whole thing fascinating; Batman's rise to the top was just.....providence. Good timing. Luck. Just meeting the demand. But the whole thing has become this grotesque monstrosity of a snake eating itself; the way DC has ended up utilizing their biggest asset seems to be actively devaluing all their others, resulting in a more-and-more Bat-dependent market, and now I dont know if DC could reverse course if they wanted to.
    Well zero chance of that happening any time soon. Evil Superman continues to be his default characterization in video games and films, with Zack Snyder seemingly poised to actually get to deliver his plans for movies revolving entirely around evil Superman and Batman saving the day, with the rest of the League reduced to Batman’s sidekicks. Then there’s the fact that the Flash movie seems to just be a Flash/Batman team up movie now. If anything the reliance on Batman is only getting stronger. DC is clinging to him for dear life because they’ve so thoroughly destroyed the rest of their properties. It’s really sad and pathetic.

  5. #1370
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Well zero chance of that happening any time soon. Evil Superman continues to be his default characterization in video games and films, with Zack Snyder seemingly poised to actually get to deliver his plans for movies revolving entirely around evil Superman and Batman saving the day, with the rest of the League reduced to Batman’s sidekicks. Then there’s the fact that the Flash movie seems to just be a Flash/Batman team up movie now. If anything the reliance on Batman is only getting stronger. DC is clinging to him for dear life because they’ve so thoroughly destroyed the rest of their properties. It’s really sad and pathetic.
    I wouldn't say there's a *zero* chance, but.....yeah it ain't happening. And they do seem to be becoming more reliant on Batman, not less, but...what do you expect? They set this trajectory a long time ago and have worked hard to stay on this track, even though it'll eventually destroy them.

    And yeah, it's very sad and pathetic. And I have no sympathy at all.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #1371
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Comichron's sales number estimations for Sep. 2020:

    Superman #25 - 40,000/47,000

    Action Comics #1025 - 30,000/36,000

    Batman Superman #12 - 27,000/32,000

    Legion of Super-Heroes #9 - 27,000/32,000

    Batman Superman Annual #1 - 20,500/25,000

    Young Justice #18 - 17,000/20,000

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-09.html

  7. #1372
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Comichron's sales number estimations for Sep. 2020:

    Superman #25 - 40,000/47,000

    Action Comics #1025 - 30,000/36,000

    Batman Superman #12 - 27,000/32,000

    Legion of Super-Heroes #9 - 27,000/32,000

    Batman Superman Annual #1 - 20,500/25,000

    Young Justice #18 - 17,000/20,000

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...0/2020-09.html
    27K at issue 12 is pretty good for BM/SM in my opinion.

  8. #1373
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    27K at issue 12 is pretty good for BM/SM in my opinion.
    Yeah that range for BM/SM and Legion seems to be satisfactory I’d imagine.

  9. #1374
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Jesus I know I'm late to the party but only one of the top ten books by DC doesn't have Batman or other Bat-theme in it? I mean hey it happens to be Superman, bonus I guess. But still utterly deflating.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  10. #1375
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Maybe 27k would be good for Supersons not BM/SM. The Superman/Batman book from pre-FP was one of DC's top sellers for long time.

    BM/SM as well as its companion team book SM/WW were selling around 50k when close to issue 12 during the New52.

    Rebirth Trinity was in the 20k range and ended up getting fillers and cancelled.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 10-29-2020 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #1376
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Jesus I know I'm late to the party but only one of the top ten books by DC doesn't have Batman or other Bat-theme in it? I mean hey it happens to be Superman, bonus I guess. But still utterly deflating.
    If you need any explanation for why DC is clinging so hard to Batman... there you go. Has it ever been as bad as it is now? Even in the 2000s we had Johns GL basically on equal footing with Batman. Johns JL was also definitely one of the premiere books of the New 52 during the 2010s. But now it’s just Batman, the gap between Bats and the rest is insane. In my eyes it shows the extent of the damage DC has done. This is what happens when all your outside media (games, movies, etc) feature Batman as the main star with the rest being little more than sidekicks (or even outright villains in Supes and WW’s case) for Batman to put down.

  12. #1377
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    In my eyes it shows the extent of the damage DC has done. This is what happens when all your outside media (games, movies, etc) feature Batman as the main star with the rest being little more than sidekicks (or even outright villains in Supes and WW’s case) for Batman to put down.
    I was thinking the same thing. They're kind of in a damned-if-do-damded-if-don't situation now. And I think they bear some responsibility for making it that way. Batman was popular, so people wanted to see him be awesome. So they made him more awesome ...often by nerfing other characters. Big Justice League event. Bat-fans, who don't normally buy JL, buy this one. And Batman is way more awesome than everyone else, being both more competent and more moral (Identity Crisis always a great example). And so the Batfan thinks Batman is the best, and doesn't buy any non-Bat books. The JL fan either switches allegiance to Batman or stops reading (as many) comic books (thus making them more dependent on Batman). And this repeated over and over. Even in other media, Batman it the dude. He ends up mentoring YJ, don't even get me started on the DCAU. I mean, even 20 years ago. Because it's been going on that long, and it it just keeps happening (I didn't think the movie was very good anyway, but I was staggered when they had Batman be the ultimate hero in Throne of Atlantis). It's to the point where I feel like they actively drive away non-Batman fans when he's involved in stories with other heroes, because of how the other heroes will end up treated.

    Of course, they don't need to have heroes pitted against each other all the time, but that's a very old comic trope. I'd rather it happen very rarely.

    I'm not saying don't use Batman, but they really need to work on deepening their bench, and they can't do that while they have Batman curbstomping the other heroes all the time. The fans' hero, Batman, often seems to regard the others with nothing but distrust and disdain. And that is too often treated as justified. And that's not a good way to to have them respected or well-regarded by readers.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-29-2020 at 04:47 PM.

  13. #1378
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. They're kind of in a damned-if-do-damded-if-don't situation now. And I think they bear some responsibility for making it that way.
    They bear *all* the responsibility for making it this way.

    There's a big difference between meeting the demand for your product, and sacrificing everything else for that product.

    Imagine if the Pepsi company (who also make Mountain Dew) ran commercials that said "Pepsi is awesome! It's our highest selling product! Drink Pepsi, but don't drink Mountain Dew! Dew sucks and is way worse than Pepsi!" That's what DC has done with the Bat; it's bad business and may well have contributed to the market's decline, and at this late stage of the game I doubt there's much DC can do to reverse course. Their best bet is digital and bookstore OGN's where they can start fresh with a new audience who haven't been conditioned over thirty years to disregard every character not named Bruce Wayne.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    They bear *all* the responsibility for making it this way.

    There's a big difference between meeting the demand for your product, and sacrificing everything else for that product.

    Imagine if the Pepsi company (who also make Mountain Dew) ran commercials that said "Pepsi is awesome! It's our highest selling product! Drink Pepsi, but don't drink Mountain Dew! Dew sucks and is way worse than Pepsi!" That's what DC has done with the Bat; it's bad business and may well have contributed to the market's decline, and at this late stage of the game I doubt there's much DC can do to reverse course. Their best bet is digital and bookstore OGN's where they can start fresh with a new audience who haven't been conditioned over thirty years to disregard every character not named Bruce Wayne.
    Back when Pepsi was first/re-introduced in SA, I was a Mountain Dew gal, I never got into it because of Coke. Your analogy is brilliant and sadly true.

  15. #1380
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Leave it to DC to actually mess up managing your #1 commodity even though you're making bank with him. Let it be written for future reference, if there's ever the question of "Is it possible make tons of money from an IP but still be doing it wrong?" The answer is yes, and the example is DC and how they've managed to make irrelevant all their other IPs in their quest to milk their top one.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "“Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer!”

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