Keeping track of Post-Rebirth Superman sales

[Leancarp900]

It's still a nice way to form a guess on how things are selling. Which, I'm not surprised Superman is having solid sales. Kinda been the go to for the franchise for years now. Strong start, and that's it. Nobody at DC has yet to crack the code on why Superman can't sell good as Batman, Spider-man, and the X-men.

It's probably just mainly because Superman is not as inherently popular as Spider-Man or Batman. Staying in the top 30-40 is fine.

[Vordan]

“First issues are highly collectible as you know but if you have too many in one month, you suck up all the dollars that are in the marketplace. Which is great if you get them all, but there are limits to people’s budgets,” notes Lee.

Lee says the results have been strong so far. Superman books are performing well, titles have gone to second printings, and even eclectic books such as Doom Patrol have found an audience.

Says Lee: “We’re super excited about the results and we haven’t even gotten to the Batman piece of it yet.”

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo..._medium=social

ICv2 might not be showing the whole picture, important to remember that.

It's still a nice way to form a guess on how things are selling. Which, I'm not surprised Superman is having solid sales. Kinda been the go to for the franchise for years now. Strong start, and that's it. Nobody at DC has yet to crack the code on why Superman can't sell good as Batman, Spider-man, and the X-men.

Those three have had high profile successful adaptions in movies and video games. Superman has not. People come to these characters through the adaptions now primarily.

[DABellWrites]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo..._medium=social

ICv2 might not be showing the whole picture, important to remember that.



Those three have had high profile successful adaptions in movies and video games. Superman has not. People come to these characters through the adaptions now primarily.

I don't know, sounds about right in my opinion. Dawn of DC has been going for what? Start of 2023. 7 months so far. Superman had a strong start. Jim Lee says things are going good. I think solid sales are right for Superman so far into DoDC. Good to know some books are having second printings. From the article mention of the New52 and Rebirth initiatives, it seems like DC tweaked the formula a bit.

As for the adaptations, Jimmy Oslen and Perry White aren't comic originals. Truth, Justice, and the America Way didn't come through comics. The Fortress wasn't always crystal. If anything, the gateway to comics has always been adaptations. However, that doesn't mean adaptations determine what's successful. Batman was DC's second-best selling character, didn't overtake Superman until the 1966 TV show. After the TV show was canceled, Superman went back to number 1. The Flash is one of DC's top books, didn't have an adaptation until 1990s. Hellblazer had ONE adaptation during the 1988-2013 serialization. Plus, it's SUPERMAN. Why would a character with his pedigree and name value need adaptations to sell over 100,000 copies? There's a clear disconnect.

It's probably just mainly because Superman is not as inherently popular as Spider-Man or Batman. Staying in the top 30-40 is fine.

I'd agree if it's Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or the Flash. Superman? That's not fine. He's a high profile character and still a big name in comics. Aside from Batman, he's the only solo character still getting Elseworlds and carrying multiple books.

[NaVi]

I don't know, sounds about right in my opinion. Dawn of DC has been going for what? Start of 2023. 7 months so far. Superman had a strong start. Jim Lee says things are going good. I think solid sales are right for Superman so far into DoDC. Good to know some books are having second printings. From the article mention of the New52 and Rebirth initiatives, it seems like DC tweaked the formula a bit.

As for the adaptations, Jimmy Oslen and Perry White aren't comic originals. Truth, Justice, and the America Way didn't come through comics. The Fortress wasn't always crystal. If anything, the gateway to comics has always been adaptations. However, that doesn't mean adaptations determine what's successful. Batman was DC's second-best selling character, didn't overtake Superman until the 1966 TV show. After the TV show was canceled, Superman went back to number 1. The Flash is one of DC's top books, didn't have an adaptation until 1990s. Hellblazer had ONE adaptation during the 1988-2013 serialization. Plus, it's SUPERMAN. Why would a character with his pedigree and name value need adaptations to sell over 100,000 copies? There's a clear disconnect.



I'd agree if it's Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, or the Flash. Superman? That's not fine. He's a high profile character and still a big name in comics. Aside from Batman, he's the only solo character still getting Elseworlds and carrying multiple books.

It's very simple, Superman doesn't sell as it should for 2 reasons.
1: many see it as boring.
2: It is a fashion (for a long time) to hate Superman.
To change that, something more than good comics is needed, you need good movies, nowadays also a game but above all time, for the target audience to adapt and see the character with new eyes and I think they are slowly doing it, the fact that Superman is a good boy now is not as bad as it was a couple of years ago.

[Badou]

Doesn't Superman still sell better outside the US? Or was that just in the recent past? I think the main reason for Superman not selling as well as a Batman is the long stretch that started in the 80s of Superman not being used well in outside media compared to Batman. Batman just became the marquee hero for DC and pulled away fans from Superman. If you liked Batman you were cool and if you liked Superman you weren't.

Batman in the 80s had the Moore and Miller comics changing how people felt about comics, some of which were rough on Superman like TDKR. Then he had the Tim Burton Batman movie that was a groundbreaking hit and the Batman The Animated Series that was also very well received that stretched all the way to Justice League/JLU. Then right when Batman was going through a rough stretch after the Batman and Robin movie they had the Nolan Batman movies as well as the Arkham games to reestablish the character for a new generation.

Superman really just had the Lois & Clark and Smallville TV series that appealed to more non comic book audiences, but between those shows he had the Superman 64 game that was a complete disaster. Then after so long they gave him a new live action movie with Superman Returns, but rather then being a reboot the way the Nolan Batman movies were it was some awkward inspired sequel to the Donner movies. Then you had the Man of Steel movie which was very divisive and lead to BvS which kind of destroyed any hope for a DC cinematic universe lead by Superman.

[DABellWrites]

Doesn't Superman still sell better outside the US? Or was that just in the recent past? I think the main reason for Superman not selling as well as a Batman is the long stretch that started in the 80s of Superman not being used well in outside media compared to Batman. Batman just became the marquee hero for DC and pulled away fans from Superman. If you liked Batman you were cool and if you liked Superman you weren't.

Batman in the 80s had the Moore and Miller comics changing how people felt about comics, some of which were rough on Superman like TDKR. Then he had the Tim Burton Batman movie that was a groundbreaking hit and the Batman The Animated Series that was also very well received that stretched all the way to Justice League/JLU. Then right when Batman was going through a rough stretch after the Batman and Robin movie they had the Nolan Batman movies as well as the Arkham games to reestablish the character for a new generation.

Superman really just had the Lois & Clark and Smallville TV series that appealed to more non comic book audiences, but between those shows he had the Superman 64 game that was a complete disaster. Then after so long they gave him a new live action movie with Superman Returns, but rather then being a reboot the way the Nolan Batman movies were it was some awkward inspired sequel to the Donner movies. Then you had the Man of Steel movie which was very divisive and lead to BvS which kind of destroyed any hope for a DC cinematic universe lead by Superman.

Superman had the 1988 Superboy TV show, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, Smallville, and Superman The Animated Series, Krypto The Superdog, Legion of Superheroes, Superman Returns Man of Steel, all those Superman solo films from DC Animation. Franchise-wise, he's still lucrative. Also, as I pointed out, adaptations don't always gauge success. Hellblazer and Ah! My Goddess! both started in 1988, with My Goddess ending in 2014 and Hellblazer ended in 2013. Ah! My Goddess! had plenty of adaptations over it's 20+ year serialization, while John Constantine was given one film adaptation in 2005 and a failed TV show. I don't count those DCAMU movies.

Anyways, I'm specifically looking at the comic book readership, not the general audience. Considering that all of Superman's TV shows have been successes (I'm not sure on Lois & Clark's last season), people like Superman. Both SR and MoS weren't bad at the box office, apparently, Superman Returns making 300,000,000+ at the box office wasn't that bad in 2006. Especially them greenlighting a sequel that never got made. Man of Steel made three times that amount and more on DVD/Blu-Ray sales. If anything, people WANT Superman in the general audience. When it comes to the comic books readers? Comic book readers don't seem all that into Superman.

[HsssH]

Adaptations might bring in new readers, but they are unlikely to stick around with shitty or convuluted comics. I think that since Morrison's Action #1 current Williamson's run is first one that you can actually recommend to new people. I prefer PKJ's Action, but I think it is not as easy to get into + it has shitty backups.

Imagine you are new Superman fan and you get hit in the face with Superman Multiplicity and Superman Reborn one after another? On top of it having very different status quo? I can't imagine that many new readers enjoyed that experience. And those that did ended up angry about Jon's age up.

So I think what happens is that people get pushed towards All Star, Birthright, Kingdome Come, All Seasons and similar standalone classics.

[Vordan]

Yeah I also neglected to mention that Superman’s mainline comics have been **** more often than not in the 21st century. That or just a pain in the ass to get into. Byrne is fairly easy to get into which is probably why his stuff has lingered on. The Triangle Era isn’t collected at all outside of the Death & Return Saga, and the quality there can vary from issue to issue because everything is connected and it’s different people writing it. That carried forward with Loeb/Kelly/Casey, and only Action 775 managed to stand out. Some people recommend Simone/Byrne’s brief Action run but I thought it was a total bore. Azz and Lee’s For Tomorrow isn’t good, and it also doesn’t deliver what you’d want from Lee on Superman, him drawing all the classic Rogues and iconic locations, instead it’s a weird ass story where Superman fights some boring Doomsday knockoff, broods about being a god, and then fights a version of Zod. Busiek/Johns was an exception, and is the only other real easy entry way that gives newcomers what they’d want, Superman fighting Lex, Zod, Brainiac, and the rest of his Rogues while being recognizably “Superman”. Morrison Action was great but it gets weird towards the end with the 5D stuff, Pak was ruined by crossovers and editorial, and the rest of New 52 Superman is mediocre to bad.

Williamson/PKJ is the first time both of the Superman books are on a roll and worth reading since the Busiek/Johns era. Williamson handles the solo adventures and the classic Clark/Lex feuding, PKJ is trying to build up the Superfamily. Both are actually using classic Superman Rogues - Livewire, Parasite, Mongul, Silver Banshee, Metallo - and flesh them out and/or upgrade their threat levels. In a way it’s very much a second attempt at what Williamson & Johns were doing, lots of focus on classic villains, classic status quo, and fleshing out Metropolis. Not surprising it’s been received well, when you think about it, DC has rarely ever let Superman operate in a classic status quo for long. They were always trying out various gimmicks or upheavals to the status quo under Berganza, another reason to be glad he’s finally gone.

[DABellWrites]

Yeah I also neglected to mention that Superman’s mainline comics have been **** more often than not in the 21st century. That or just a pain in the ass to get into. Byrne is fairly easy to get into which is probably why his stuff has lingered on. The Triangle Era isn’t collected at all outside of the Death & Return Saga, and the quality there can vary from issue to issue because everything is connected and it’s different people writing it. That carried forward with Loeb/Kelly/Casey, and only Action 775 managed to stand out. Some people recommend Simone/Byrne’s brief Action run but I thought it was a total bore. Azz and Lee’s For Tomorrow isn’t good, and it also doesn’t deliver what you’d want from Lee on Superman, him drawing all the classic Rogues and iconic locations, instead it’s a weird ass story where Superman fights some boring Doomsday knockoff, broods about being a god, and then fights a version of Zod. Busiek/Johns was an exception, and is the only other real easy entry way that gives newcomers what they’d want, Superman fighting Lex, Zod, Brainiac, and the rest of his Rogues while being recognizably “Superman”. Morrison Action was great but it gets weird towards the end with the 5D stuff, Pak was ruined by crossovers and editorial, and the rest of New 52 Superman is mediocre to bad.

Williamson/PKJ is the first time both of the Superman books are on a roll and worth reading since the Busiek/Johns era. Williamson handles the solo adventures and the classic Clark/Lex feuding, PKJ is trying to build up the Superfamily. Both are actually using classic Superman Rogues - Livewire, Parasite, Mongul, Silver Banshee, Metallo - and flesh them out and/or upgrade their threat levels. In a way it’s very much a second attempt at what Williamson & Johns were doing, lots of focus on classic villains, classic status quo, and fleshing out Metropolis. Not surprising it’s been received well, when you think about it, DC has rarely ever let Superman operate in a classic status quo for long. They were always trying out various gimmicks or upheavals to the status quo under Berganza, another reason to be glad he’s finally gone.

Yeah, I pinpoint the 2000s to be the period where Superman really started to flounder in terms of continuity. Interesting enough, I actually the Leob/Kelly/Casey era and Tirangle Era as a good example of what comics can do in terms of continuity. Where one creative leaves, another comes doing their own things. It should be up to the editors to decide if they want to actually carry on the previous continuity. At least one story, like President Luthor. I don't mean restart the status quo or "put the toys back into the toy box". I mean have a creative team come through a solid, but flexible ending. In my opinion, when it comes to Superman/Batman, the sweet spot is 5-10 years.

Adaptations might bring in new readers, but they are unlikely to stick around with shitty or convuluted comics. I think that since Morrison's Action #1 current Williamson's run is first one that you can actually recommend to new people. I prefer PKJ's Action, but I think it is not as easy to get into + it has shitty backups.

Imagine you are new Superman fan and you get hit in the face with Superman Multiplicity and Superman Reborn one after another? On top of it having very different status quo? I can't imagine that many new readers enjoyed that experience. And those that did ended up angry about Jon's age up.

So I think what happens is that people get pushed towards All Star, Birthright, Kingdome Come, All Seasons and similar standalone classics.

If I wasn't familiar with Superman, I'd probably stopped reading Morrison's Action Comics. It was all over the place throwing in too many characters and lore for Superman. I may not like Byrne's Man of Steel, but at least it's new-reader friendly.

Agreed on the convulted continuity part. I think DC (and other companies like it) should go the JRPG/Doctor Who route. That being, create standalone stories with little to no references/deep cuts to past stories. If you played a JRPG, you know what I mean. The Doctor Who route, don't worry about continuity, let it be messy! Stop trying to make sense of it. That's the lovely thing about Doctor Who franchise, by nature it makes no sense. Unlike DC and Marvel tradition in trying to explain continuity errors like with DC's Hypertime/Metaverse. The writers just embrace it. I'm working on an article about this.

[Vordan]

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...mics-july-2023

25. Knight Terrors: Superman #1 (Of 2)
47. Batman Superman Worlds Finest #17

Only the top 50 for now.

[Vordan]

25 Knight Terrors: Superman #1 (Of 2)

47 Batman Superman Worlds Finest #17

61 Adventures of Superman Jon Kent #5 (Of 6)

62 Knight Terrors: Action Comics #1 (Of 2)

83 Superman Lost #5 (Of 10)

109 Superman The Last Days of Lex Luthor #1 (Of 3)

132 Superboy The Man of Tomorrow #4 (Of 6)

135 Action Comics #1056 (Resolicitation)

147 Steelworks #2 (Of 6)

For July from ICv2

[TheKryptonMan]

It's a shame that Superman Lost is not doing better in terms of sales , I really like it . It's something different for Superman.
Also The Last Days of Lex Luthor was really good too . I think that DC just picked a weird size to publish it in . Even my LCS didn't have it on the wall along with new releases . It was just on a table.
I picked up the Knight Terrors Superman books , but I can understand them not being for everybody.

[HsssH]

Unfortunate number for Steelworks.

Last days was released on the last week of the month so that should be taken in mind, but still, rather low number for #1 from such creative team.

[Vordan]

Unfortunate number for Steelworks.

Last days was released on the last week of the month so that should be taken in mind, but still, rather low number for #1 from such creative team.

Guess I should just remember to put a disclaimer that the ICV2 charts aren’t reliable. I only post them because they’re all we have these days. That said it’s yet another Superman & Lex Luthor story, and Lex doesn’t command the same devotion amongst fans as Joker does. Wouldn’t surprise me if the sales were soft.

[TheKryptonMan]

Guess I should just remember to put a disclaimer that the ICV2 charts aren’t reliable. I only post them because they’re all we have these days. That said it’s yet another Superman & Lex Luthor story, and Lex doesn’t command the same devotion amongst fans as Joker does. Wouldn’t surprise me if the sales were soft.

I read Batman & Detective as well and the Superman books , and maybe I'm in the minority . But I'm sick of Joker being the center of everything Batman . Well that's my 2 cents . It is a shame that we don't have reliable sales charts like before with Diamond . I know that Diamond was a monopoly , but at least we knew where the books stood .