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  1. #211
    Incredible Member SuperCrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suemorphplus209 View Post
    It just feels like "I get your point" though.
    If everyone only stated a point of view once, would we have a forum, though? We wouldn't tell SuperDad and SuperJon fans "Hey, I get your point. Stop talking now." every time they said something good, would we? Or that they don't belong on a sales thread to discuss the numbers?

    To some extent, people should also realize that I made like a one paragraph post addressing my thoughts on the latest Rebirth book debuting at it's lowest first day chart position to date. Then people denounced me with a whole bunch of posts, which I responded to, and they they responded to those, and so on. If people had just sort of shrugged and let me happy for my paragraph, it wouldn't be very disruptive at all.

    I do think that they know that not everyone is on board with the changes though, but in this climate, they just have to make their pick as to whom they are going to please.
    They could do two separate Superman books and put one Superman in an alternate universe. They publish something like 50 issues of comics a month. There are room for two visions of Superman to run concurrently. In fact, they could do it without even adding issues- just give one Superman Action Comics and the other one the Superman title, or make those two titles single-shipped instead of double-shipped, giving them room for two more books without increasing the number of issues.

    Marvel has multiple versions of almost all their top characters now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tayswift View Post
    there isn't any reason that if superdad fail DC will go back to new52perman. Why would they go back a unsuccessful version of the character?
    u may say: what about post-crises?
    another case, it took decades to fall sales and he was still very well accepted by the fandom. most of media is inspired on postcrises.
    I think new52 Superman has more potential for upward growth. You do a version of Superman designed to appeal to a bygone area, and you won't get much readership below a certain age. You do a version of Superman designed for kids, and you'll get kids below high school age and a few old people that like family things. New52 is a more modern Superman that has better potential for demographic growth than either of the SuperDad models (It isn't clear to me which of the two targets they are aiming for with SuperDad, but it's one or the one). A 20 or 30-something Superman who's single with a modern suit and PG-13 or even R-rated storylines (Which new52 Superman wasn't quite, but could be) gets you 18-54s and some younger and older people as well (Teenagers like to read adult things).

    However, you're right, if SuperDad and SuperJon fail, they might not go back to new52 Superman. They might try another complete reboot. I would prefer spinning the reboot roulette wheel again to the status quo- not as much as I'd prefer them just bringing new52 Superman back, but I would still prefer it to what's happening now.

    Short of that, I suppose they could try killing off the Jon character and seeing how SuperDad would do as just Superman, and take him back to the Daily Planet and try to genericize him and toss some of the new52 memories into the pot- that would also be an improvement over the present (Although not to the same degree). But I don't really know why you'd keep around SuperDad with SuperJon gone, since thematically it seems like SuperDad only exists to be a SuperJon delivery mechanism. Like, they didn't bring him back to bring *him* back, they brought him back because it gives them a way to put the 10 year old superhero in the stories of a top selling title as a top character, which for some reason they really really wanted to do, though I can't for the life of me figure out why. My guess is that if Jon is gone, SuperDad follows.
    Last edited by SuperCrab; 07-16-2016 at 09:10 PM.

  2. #212
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    Superdad will sell better if he's treated with respect. It's crude to say this, but Superdad or 52Supes, details of his character, who he dates, details of his origin, how much of a farmboy he is, single or married father, etc. None of that matters if the *low common denominator* portrayal doesn't improve. If he's still weak minded, gets mind controled every other month, never learns to deal with Kryptonite/Red Sun/magic, gets no respect in Justice League, still Batman's punching bag, is now the dumb farmboy of the trinity... I predict his sales will fall at about the same rate as 52 Supes.

  3. #213
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumbduck View Post
    Superdad will sell better if he's treated with respect. It's crude to say this, but Superdad or 52Supes, details of his character, who he dates, details of his origin, how much of a farmboy he is, single or married father, etc. None of that matters if the *low common denominator* portrayal doesn't improve. If he's still weak minded, gets mind controled every other month, never learns to deal with Kryptonite/Red Sun/magic, gets no respect in Justice League, still Batman's punching bag, is now the dumb farmboy of the trinity... I predict his sales will fall at about the same rate as 52 Supes.
    True,and SO FAR they haven't fallen into that trap. Everyone is freaking out elsewhere with the Trinity book and something Francis Manipulate said,but we have yet to arrive at that point where Superman has been written completely off model. Of course the day is still young and we are only a couple weeks into month two.

    The fact is though,given time,all the negative pitfalls of their mishandling of Superdad would have likely been transferred to Nuperman eventually. Heck Truth repeated several of them. It's not and never has been the version of Superman that was the problem. It's the people in charge behind the scenes.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #214
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperCrab View Post

    Why? Sales figures are of equal interest to people who like or dislike the current direction. People who like it want to see it do well so it'll stay the status quo, people who don't like it want to see it do poorly so that they go back to the new52 Superman or try a new third direction. It's not a topic for SuperDad fans exclusively. This isn't the "I love SuperDad" thread.
    FORGET THIS, I deleted the previous comment..

    Try to calm Supercrab FOR THEN.. listen the hate for my character? NO. This isnīt my fight.

    I hear Tayswift(unsuccessful version? ) and I prefer leave this discussion, continues with your words, I am out... As I said, Superdad topic.
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    Last edited by adrikito; 07-17-2016 at 04:39 AM.

  5. #215
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    This is not a thread to either praise Post-Crisis Superman or criticize him (or New 52 Superman for that matter), it's to keep track of the Superman line's sales after a relaunch, and how it compares to the line's performance from before the relaunch.

    I'll be keeping up with Supergirl and Super Sons when they are released, and will continue keeping track of sales if New 52 Superman returns and takes over the flagship titles.

    No one should feel unwelcome in this thread because of their Superman preference.

  6. #216
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    This is not a thread to either praise Post-Crisis Superman or criticize him (or New 52 Superman for that matter), it's to keep track of the Superman line's sales after a relaunch, and how it compares to the line's performance from before the relaunch.

    I'll be keeping up with Supergirl and Super Sons when they are released, and will continue keeping track of sales if New 52 Superman returns and takes over the flagship titles.

    No one should feel unwelcome in this thread because of their Superman preference.
    No one should feel unwelcome in this forum because of their Superman preference.

    Granted, I can be pretty hard on certain versions, but no one should feel chased away or take differing opinions personally. We're all passionate here, and lively discourse is what forums like this live on, but there's a line.

    More on topic, I look forward to seeing what a super-powered Lois sells with Jimenez behind her. Not what I want to see for Lois (she dont need no stinkin powers to be super!) but I feel like this could be a sleeper hit.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  7. #217
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    But, where the Superman books might do better now than the New 52 is that they might stabilize at a higher number.
    Is this just a hunch or do you have something behind the theory?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Is this just a hunch or do you have something behind the theory?
    Just a hunch.

    I think editorial has everything planned out for how the Superman line is going to progress through Rebirth, so no last minute rewrites, no fill-in artists, and no revolving door of creative teams like we had at the start of the New 52, with Perez leaving after 6 issues, Giffen and Jurgens leaving after 3, Jurgens leaving after another 3, Diggle leaving after 1, etc.

    Superman & Action aren't what I'd like them to be, but there's a consistency there.

  9. #219
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    Day 3 for Action Comics #959

    Remains at number 6.

    Minimum sales at 2994.

    Day 3 for New Super-Man #1

    Remains at number 9.

    Minimum sales at 2983

    Day 11 for Superman #2

    Drops to number 39.

    Minimum sales at 10940.

    Day 25 for Action Comics #958

    Drops to number 238.

    Minimum sales at 23220.

    Day 32 for Superman #1

    Drops to number 184.

    Minimum sales at 30458.

    Day 38 for Action Comics #957

    Moves up to 297.

    Minimum sales at 35247.

    Day 45 for Superman Rebirth #1

    Superman Rebirth #1 drops to number 233.

    Minimum sales at 43010
    Last edited by Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever; 07-18-2016 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #220
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    You know, y'all, I'm coming around to really appreciating these here sales-numbers for Superman, mainly because if they keep up, then they may increase WB's investment in the character!

    *rubs hands together with glee*

    Yes... it could mean overall more product... Yes... And eventually, even though I don't like the family-man angle for Supes, the chances of not just me, but EVERYONE finding product which they feel is aimed at them, increases exponentially!

    Specialty-toys, animated features, animated series, Elseworlds comics (this one in perticular!), video games, reprints - good comics-sales could be good for a lot of things.

    Come oon babeee... keep rollin', keep rollin'...!

  11. #221
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ina heshima kwa Jumuia kama ka View Post
    Just a hunch.

    I think editorial has everything planned out for how the Superman line is going to progress through Rebirth, so no last minute rewrites, no fill-in artists, and no revolving door of creative teams like we had at the start of the New 52, with Perez leaving after 6 issues, Giffen and Jurgens leaving after 3, Jurgens leaving after another 3, Diggle leaving after 1, etc.

    Superman & Action aren't what I'd like them to be, but there's a consistency there.
    Given that the same people are in charge I have my doubts. Now perhaps you're right; perhaps management has pulled together the one thing that pulled down Nuperman; consistency. It could very well be the case. I mean, we're three-ish issues into Rebirth and October solicits are leaked and there's no word of a stupid, needless crossover. Yet.

    But these are the same people who have dropped the ball in the past after having "a plan" so I dont have high hopes. I'd like to be proven wrong, as successful Superman comics are good for all of us (as LR Johansson said) but the rumors of talent being told to go home while they were at the airport waiting for the flights to the Rebirth announcement, as well as the stuff DC has pulled over the last few years with Superman and others (Batwoman's marriage comes to mind) doesnt fill me with confidence.

    But time will tell.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  12. #222
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Given that the same people are in charge I have my doubts. Now perhaps you're right; perhaps management has pulled together the one thing that pulled down Nuperman; consistency. It could very well be the case. I mean, we're three-ish issues into Rebirth and October solicits are leaked and there's no word of a stupid, needless crossover. Yet.

    But these are the same people who have dropped the ball in the past after having "a plan" so I dont have high hopes. I'd like to be proven wrong, as successful Superman comics are good for all of us (as LR Johansson said) but the rumors of talent being told to go home while they were at the airport waiting for the flights to the Rebirth announcement, as well as the stuff DC has pulled over the last few years with Superman and others (Batwoman's marriage comes to mind) doesnt fill me with confidence.

    But time will tell.
    Well, nothing wrong with being positive... But I'm mainly positive about sales, not as much the actual mainline books - being positive about one, doesn't necessarily mean being positive about the other. Berganza, Lee and Didio are still there, so that's certainly a big chain around Superman's neck.

    It should also be noted that it took about a year until Superman was involved in the constant cross-overs or strange changes in direction that came about during the New 52 era, so they've got plenty of time to mess it up.
    Last edited by L.R Johansson; 07-18-2016 at 11:14 AM.

  13. #223
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    As I recall, and I could be wrong here, the big crossover stuff didnt really get cranked up until Berganza came back on. Idleson had the Lobdell-centric H'el on Earth and Return to Krypton events, but both of those only lasted a couple months and had about a year or so between them. But once we got started with Doomed, the crossover Events started lasting longer (better part of a year), with only about six months between.

    So, unless DC has changed their position (which is quite possible, if awfully late) I expect the first big Superdad crossover to be announced in the November/December solicits. A few months to establish the new status quo and then right back to over-long Events full of empty carbs and shock value and no real content to speak of. Of course, with double shipping that does mean more content between Events, but it could also mean longer, more drawn out Events too. Time will tell.

    And Im not fond of the direction, but I am happy about the sales so far. Superman selling good means more revenue for DC which means they're more likely to take more risks and publish more content. That means they're more likely to do something I want to read.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  14. #224
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    Day 4 for Action Comics #959

    Remains at number 6.

    Minimum sales at 3992.

    Day 4 for New Super-Man #1

    Remains at number 9.

    Minimum sales at 3978

    Day 12 for Superman #2

    Drops to number 51.

    Minimum sales at 11892.

    Day 26 for Action Comics #958

    Drops to number 241.

    Minimum sales at 23982.

    Day 33 for Superman #1

    Drops to number 225.

    Minimum sales at 31236.

    Day 39 for Action Comics #957

    Drops to 342.

    Minimum sales at 35908.

    Day 46 for Superman Rebirth #1

    Superman Rebirth #1 drops to number 265.

    Minimum sales at 43748

  15. #225
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    As I recall, and I could be wrong here, the big crossover stuff didnt really get cranked up until Berganza came back on. Idleson had the Lobdell-centric H'el on Earth and Return to Krypton events, but both of those only lasted a couple months and had about a year or so between them. But once we got started with Doomed, the crossover Events started lasting longer (better part of a year), with only about six months between.

    So, unless DC has changed their position (which is quite possible, if awfully late) I expect the first big Superdad crossover to be announced in the November/December solicits. A few months to establish the new status quo and then right back to over-long Events full of empty carbs and shock value and no real content to speak of. Of course, with double shipping that does mean more content between Events, but it could also mean longer, more drawn out Events too. Time will tell.

    And Im not fond of the direction, but I am happy about the sales so far. Superman selling good means more revenue for DC which means they're more likely to take more risks and publish more content. That means they're more likely to do something I want to read.
    Like revive Superman? Well one could dream.

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