Are Marvel in the wrong for NOT Giving Captain America a Boyfriend?

[JasonEsta]

No, we don't want Captain America to be a scapegoat. He was simply used as an example to get attention. No one is going to be crying if Cap isn't revealed as bisexual. But throwing his name out there got a lot of attention, and got a lot of discussion, and got a lot of people talking about LGBT characters who could be used in the movies. It got people expressing support for LGBT representation, even if they opposed a specific character being LGBT.

Confronting Marvel Studios is exactly what this campaign was about. It was telling Marvel Studios, "Hey! LGBT people exist, you know! How about including some in the movies!" That was the whole point of the campaign.

If you had enough people believe they were bigots, it would get attention to.

[JasonEsta]

What narrative are Marvel going for that prohibits LGBT existing in their films???


Representation matters. You might not realise why, but it is important. You not caring and it not mattering overall are two very separate issues.

The narrative is about a big upcoming cosmic fight with Thanos. Everyone knows that.

[Kieran_Frost]

If you had enough people believe they were bigots, it would get attention to.

If they are intentionally creating a narrative actively excluding LGBT people surely that would make them prejudice, no?

The narrative is about a big upcoming cosmic fight with Thanos. Everyone knows that.

And that excludes LGBT people from being a part of it... because... ???

[JasonEsta]

You force it because of the part in bold.

That's a ridiculous line of thought.

[JasonEsta]

If they are intentionally creating a narrative actively excluding LGBT people surely that would make them prejudice, no?

Intentionally? Where are you getting that idea? Where is the proof? The evidence?

[Kieran_Frost]

Intentionally? Where are you getting that idea?

From you. You said LGBT people being in the MCU doesn't fit their narrative.

[numberthirty]

Intentionally? Where are you getting that idea? Where is the proof? The evidence?

If I cannot name a single LGBT character, you have created that situation. If you did so intentionally is not the issue.

[Rahul]

I genuinely believe both sides are wrong about this.

People wanting Steve Rogers to have a boyfriend is merely a pressure cooker reaction to lack of representation of LGBT in superhero media. However, it unfortunately feeds into the toxic thought that genuine, almost deep levels of heterosexual closeness can only be interpreted as a homosexual relationship. This mindset harms everybody.

And of course, the usual people who are against representation are joined by those people who abuse those arguing " for Stucky" without any sense of empathy.

[numberthirty]

That said, I don't think you can create a scenario where that there are no LGBT characters is not intentional.

Did someone edit them out, and Marvel released the films anyway?

[Tiamatty]

Honestly, I don't give a **** about LGBT representation when it comes to Marvel movies. Not one fucken ****! And I think that goes for a lot of other people in general.

You don't have to make people understand this at all. For the majority it's a problem that they don't view as significant at all in their daily lives. They couldn't care less. I myself don't give a ****. The only time it riles me up is when people like yourself try to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Hopefully Marvel will never retcon a hero's sexuality for the sake of a few vocal minority. And if they ever use an established LGBT character or create an LGBT hero that makes it onscreen I will gladly watch it providing the reviews of the movie are good.

So your position is "who gives a **** about LGBT people." That Marvel is completely and totally justified in pretending they don't exist, and that LGBT representation is not an issue worth discussing.

You're right that most people don't view it as a problem. Which, you know, is kinda the problem. It's not a problem to them because they already have their own representation. That's privilege. It's the "I got mine, screw everyone else" mentality. It's genuinely not giving a damn about other people.

This does matter to LGBT people. To friends and family of LGBT people. To people who support the LGBT community. There's plenty of people it matters to, and that number is growing, and will continue to grow.

Now here I am..a guy who backed everyone when Williams was forced out during that Batwoman change up and LOVE Lesbian women. More than you understand, kiddo. But why go after Captain America? Why not confront the issue instead of trying to muddle the waters? All of that sidestepping, hipster type crap. It's not blunt. It's not straight up. It's weak.

I laugh when I see these big NY/LA type cities in Batman/Superman and you see like NO BLACKS whatsoever. It's really crazy. It's just not realistic. But hey...if you wanted the personification of what you're talking about, you should of checked out Spartacus. As for Lesbian/Gay characters in future Marvel films? Why FORCE IT? It doesn't fit the narrative they are heading into.

So you support lesbians. Congratulations for you, guy. Way to prove your credentials there.

The reason people used Captain America was to draw attention. #MakeAGayAvenger wouldn't have gotten much attention, because certain people - ahem ahem - have no shits to give about LGBT representation. #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend gets people talking. It gets people talking about the fact that Marvel Studios is ignoring LGBT people.

As for movies ignoring black and Latino people: Yes. This is also a problem. You're right that it's not realistic, and it's something filmmakers need to get a lot better about.

The narrative is about a big upcoming cosmic fight with Thanos. Everyone knows that.

And gay people are unable to fight Thanos? Gay people can't be friends and allies of the heroes? How does Thanos preclude the existence of LGBT people, even as supporting characters?

People wanting Steve Rogers to have a boyfriend is merely a pressure cooker reaction to lack of representation of LGBT in superhero media. However, it unfortunately feeds into the toxic thought that genuine, almost deep levels of heterosexual closeness can only be interpreted as a homosexual relationship. This mindset harms everybody.

And this is an entirely valid point to make about the campaign. I actually agree with you, and it is actually another issue worth discussing.

[AcesX1X]

it is a bit shocking and appalling that in mcu there is not a single gay character in all existence. are they in a dimension where homosexuality does not exist?

[Ohnooze]

Here's the thing: People know Marvel won't make Captain America LGBT. They know it's just not a possibility. It's something that would mean a lot to quite a few people, but they know it'll never happen. But the hashtag wasn't really about Captain America. It was about the fact THAT MARVEL STUDIOS HAS MADE THE DECISION TO PRETEND LGBT PEOPLE DO NOT EXIST. That's the issue here. How many movies now? And not one openly LGBT characters. Not one. None. Zero. Nada. Jack-goddamn-****. That's what the hashtag's real purpose was: To draw attention to the fact that Marvel Studios is completely ignoring the very existence of LGBT people, and refusing to commit to including openly LGBT characters in the immediate future. The most they'll commit is Feige saying they'll "probably" have one "in the next 10 years." Oh, well, thank you ever so much, Kevin, for the bold position of saying you might toss one in by 2025 or whatever. I'm sure LGBT people were so relieved to hear that.

That's the issue here. That's why the hashtag caught on. Because Marvel Studios is pretending that LGBT people don't exist. And that is b*******. It is absolutey b*******, it is unquestionably b*******, it is unacceptable b*******, and it is b******* that we need to continue to call out as b*******, because if people don't call it b*******, Marvel Studios will keep on pulling that same b*******.

So no, no one actually thinks it's wrong for Captain America to not have a boyfriend. What people do think is wrong is for Marvel Studios to pretend LGBT people do not exist. And I keep making this point. In this thread and another one, I keep making this specific point, because it is a point that needs to be made, it is a point that needs to be understood, it is a point that people keep frigging ignoring in favour of bitching about "Political Correctness" and bitching about unrelated ****. Marvel Studios is pretending LGBT people don't exist. They have made a conscious decision not to include openly LGBT characters in any of the movies. They've heard people asking for LGBT representation - of course they've heard it, there's no way they're not aware of it. And they thought about it. They weighed their options. They made a list of priorities. And they made a specific decision that LGBT representation was low on their list of priorities. That is a decision they made. They can deny it all they want, but it's what happened. They looked at people asking for LGBT representation, and they said, "It's not really that important, we'll do it later, we'll do it in another movie, we don't want to take the time to figure out how to include openly LGBT characters in this movie."

That is what people are upset about. That is why people tweeted #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend. It has nothing to do with the comics. It barely has anything to do with Steve/Bucky shipping. It has to do with people being fed up with Marvel Studios making the choice to ignore the existence of LGBT people.

I don't know how to make this clearer. I don't know how else to get people to understand that this is the problem. Not whether a specific character is gay, but the fact that not one single character in the entirety of Marvel's movies has been openly LGBT.

OK? Do you understand? Do you understand the complaint? Do you understand what the issue is? Do you have anything to say about this specific issue? Are you going to defend Marvel Studios for pretending LGBT people don't exist? Or are you going to agree that they are being assholes in pretending that LGBT people exist? Because I've asked this question before, and no one has actually answered it. All the people outraged - OUTRAGED! - at the very idea of Captain America being gay, all the people saying Marvel should create new gay characters or push existing gay characters . . . these people are all completely silent when it comes to the movies. When asked what they think of the fact that Marvel Studios has made a very real decision to ignore LGBT representation. It's almost like these people don't actually give a **** about LGBT representation, they just don't want anyone to play with their toys.

I understand your point. The problem is that there isn't enough money in it for it to be a priority and you can't ask them to spend money on something that's not profitable. I personally don't care if Marvel makes a LGBT comic....I really don't care one way or the other. But you can't expect them to bend over backward for such a small group just because you're really vocal about who you are.

[Juggs]

it is a bit shocking and appalling that in mcu there is not a single gay character in all existence. are they in a dimension where homosexuality does not exist?

Hun there are LGBT in the comic universe or are you talking about the movie universe? Oh wait you mean one that is not in a relationship?

Just asking.

[MikeMC005]

it is a bit shocking and appalling that in mcu there is not a single gay character in all existence. are they in a dimension where homosexuality does not exist?

In all of existence? Maybe the just are not on the team? Is it a crime to not have a gay person on your team.

[MikeMC005]

I understand your point. The problem is that there isn't enough money in it for it to be a priority and you can't ask them to spend money on something that's not profitable. I personally don't care if Marvel makes a LGBT comic....I really don't care one way or the other. But you can't expect them to bend over backward for such a small group just because you're really vocal about who you are.

This guy gets it. Business is business. Its all about the $$$$$.