Spiderman vs. Deathstroke

[zhris]

Slade is like Batman, it's all about the prep. He wouldn't face Spiderman directly unless it was unavoidable, and even then it would be mostly defensive. Given a week, if he knew who Spiderman was (Getting the contract from Fisk, that's a safe bet) he'd go after Peter's family and friends, set bombs across the city, and do everything he can to wear Peter down mentally and physically as much as possible before going in for the kill.

[Matt the Manly]

Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so...

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.

Spiderman beating a herald of galactus is also canon. More canon than the currently rebooted fight you are referring to

Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke.

Thats what we call PIS

Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight.

one hit from Slade will do what , exactly to Pete?

Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.

This is true

I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.

Slade with the armour was struggling to put down Steve Trevor.

[Pendaran]

Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so...

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.

Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke. Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight. Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.

I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.

Hey, so, welcome to Rubmles, there's in the welcome thread stickied at the top the policies we go by when we weight things for making claims about a dude's capacity in a fight.

For instance the problems of "it happened and its canon" mean also that Deathstroke could have it taken to him by Dick Grayson, which happened and it's canon, or a wide variety of problems he has had with well less than Spiderman, which have happened and are canon, and basically thus don't reconcile at all.

If you want to say "well that was a low showing", or talk about how some guy's powers shouldn't make that make sense, or what have you, you've started pretending you can apply logic to comics and talk about things like skill, and power, and what have you, in a medium where there are no such things and there is only "whatever the writer wants to happen" which means really that anyone can beat anyone, for any reason, as long as the writer wants it to happen, and whatever that person is capable of at some other time be damned. There are no such things otherwise as "low showings" or anything else.

If you don't want to give that as the answer to every fight thread posted here, and it seems like from your posts, you don't, well, again, welcome to Rumbles. To pretend like you can otherwise say something else so that we can enjoy pretend nerd debates about fictional characters beating each other up, we start with the idea of "so what if you could use logic and it actually mattered what someone's abilities and the abilities of the person they were fighting are?" and from there after several years of very aggravating trial and error, we sorted out a set of guidelines for doing so that tend to dodge basically just screaming for pages on end in ways that ultimately boil down to "I'm saying this counts and this doesn't because I say so".

So for instance, the "guys Slade tags", are people who show things like speed and reaction time Slade has never ever shown a remote fraction of. For Slade to hit them, they basically have to forget they are capable of that, or, they have to be Induced to be Stupid, for the sake of the Plot (or, reverse all that around and PIS), and in response to that, one of the things we firm up is "everyone remembers what their actual abilities are and will actually use them".

Or, for instance "lesser guys tag Spiderman all the time", they do, you bet. And the Hulk has been choked out by a snake, and the Silver Surfer been taken out with a brick. But again, see above for "power, speed and skill are irrelevant concepts that do not actually exist because these characters are not real and exist only to illustrate how a writer wants a story to go". Otherwise? Spiderman pretty reliably to the presentation of his powers and capacity and his overall career has busted out feats of agility, reflexes, reactions, that those guys shouldn't touch. And certainly that Deathstroke himself has never demonstrated out of, again, hitting people that are similarly forgetting how fast they can go. The people they fight don't get that plot gimme when we debate this stuff here.

If you don't like that notion, that's cool, and there's an endless sea of places out there where you can talk about these things without it, but up in here? We go by that sort of thing.

[Hiromi]

With a weeks prep Slade shoots Aunt May

Thus he wins when Peter makes a deal with the devil to sacrifice his life for hers , having nothing else left to give

Man, no one's ever thought to go after Aunt May before that, and she's certainly never died before that. Seriously, Pete's seen just about everything at this point.

Hell(please note I am in no way shape or form trying to defend One More Day in any way whatsoever) it's almost surprisingly he hadn't tried to sell stuff to Mephisto years ago. I mean seriously you'd think the clones would have done it.

[bloodyarts]

No PIS allowed is actually quite refreshing, although good luck getting people to not bring it up.

I am familiar with the Rumble rules as I'm not exactly new here. I was trying to present two conceivable scenarios. We have to at least assume that the TC had to believe this COULD be a fight, and is therefore worth exploring. That's just the sort of thing that I go by.

Now, as for Slade solo'ing the JL, yeah that's complete bs (notice the silly faces after I made the statement). It's not meant to be taken as proof that Slade would win based off that ridiculous feat.

But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.

Kraven can hit Spidey and he isn't on his level speed wise or anything, yet it's not PIS. He's just that skilled, and has studied Spidey enough to know how he moves and how to trap him.

Slade is just fast enough, just strong enough and just smart enough that if he planned it out, he can hit Spidey. With a lethal hit, no less. It may seem unlikely to some because omg Spidey powers, but I can see it. Pete is not untouchable. He's always holding back and he's not always moving at his fastest or using his full strength. He even ignores his spider sense at times, or he can't avoid the particular danger, even though he's fully aware of it.

The JL solo feat may be malarky, but at the very least, it is consistent with Slade's tactics efficiency, which can be applied against anyone. Now, whether he has the raw power or utilized the right tools to administer the finishing blow is another matter.

My personal opinion? Spider-Man takes it, but if someone argued the other way, I wouldn't automatically write it off as lolnewb.

[MidTierHero]

Slade wins with prep. The Punisher has been humiliating Spider-Man for years with prep, and Deathstroke is as good/better.

[Pendaran]

But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.

The Flash' speed, just to pick one of those examples, is such that he can be shot at from behind, such that the fractional sensation of the bullet just touching his neck is enough to reflexively send the world into frozen mode such that he can react to that merest sensation and get out of the way of the bullet.

Superspeed, super reflexes, what have you, unless you are talking about Waid Era Karate Kid as the only example I can think of off the top of my head, don't have an "off switch". They're always there. When the person with them has to conveniently forget they have them to get hit/for the comic to have a plot, that's what PIS is in what I would call an almost platonic ideal of it.

You're trying to compare something that people have to will into being with "someone's reflexes". Someone's reflexes are, what they are.

Slade is just fast enough, just strong enough and just smart enough that if he planned it out, he can hit Spidey. With a lethal hit, no less. It may seem unlikely to some because omg Spidey powers, but I can see it. Pete is not untouchable. He's always holding back and he's not always moving at his fastest or using his full strength. He even ignores his spider sense at times, or he can't avoid the particular danger, even though he's fully aware of it.

There are certainly lots of reasons given for why Spiderman underperforms to his superpowers. We don't truck in them here. If Spiderman actually used what his reflexes are shown to be, unless some of Slade's prep involved managing to trap him in a huge mass of glue.. somehow, flooding the area with some viscous material, or completely and utterly getting the drop on him from stealth such that the spider sense is not usefully going off (which again.. somehow), to all of Slade Wilson? Spiderman operating on the better levels he's shown he can operate? He's untouchable just fine as far as Deathstroke trying to physically hit him.

The arguments you are using amount to nothing more than "he will for some reason forget what his powers are".

[master of read]

Slade wins with prep. The Punisher has been humiliating Spider-Man for years with prep, and Deathstroke is as good/better.

give me some examples of frank doing this to peter.

[MorphyVSFischer]

But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.

Actaully PIS being off means none of these things will ever happen. PIS is the only reason they don't do these things.

[MidTierHero]

[Pendaran]

Annd.. what comic is that from, and how did he manage that in the first place?

[master of read]

a lot of that looks like PIS/CIS.

[Hazard]

All I am seeing is a lot of scans of Spider-Man jobbing because he's forgetting how much stronger and faster than Frank he is.

It happens.

Writers usually try to push that angle during Spider-man Punisher team-ups.

Kind of like how they try to present Hulk vs Wolverine as an exciting fight.

What would actually happen if Spider-Man wasn't jobbing would be Frank being caught and jailed, but then we wouldn't get many Punisher comic appearances.

[master of read]

All I am seeing is a lot of scans of Spider-Man jobbing because he's forgetting how much stronger and faster than Frank he is.

It happens.

Writers usually try to push that angle during Spider-man Punisher team-ups.

Kind of like how they try to present Hulk vs Wolverine as an exciting fight.

What would actually happen if Spider-Man wasn't jobbing would be Frank being caught and jailed, but then we wouldn't get many Punisher comic appearances.

glad i'm not the only one. considering that peter's spider-sense has warned him when someone near him wants to do him harm without him knowing it and warning him that someone is looking at him when he's changing out of his costume, its very unlikely that frank could get the jump on him in those scans without massive PIS/CIS.

but like you said, it happens.

[Hiromi]

Disregarding Frank Miller's (whose noted for having a very vocal anti super masked hero bias) pet character

I'm pretty certain we still function under the 3 scans per comic limit for board posting rules.