Batman, Muhammad Ali and the DC Comics Rebirth Disconnect

[CBR News]

Joseph Illidge considers the symbolic efforts in DC Comics' "Batman: Rebirth" in the wake of the death of real-life icon Muhammad Ali.


Full article here.

[RobinFan4880]

No one did anything in the comic, not just the black characters. It is, in fact, the major complaint that is most often heard when referencing the comic. It was filler, pure and simple. Maybe there is pay off in the future, probably not. It only serves to tie up all of the loose ends from Snyder's run and give people a taste of King's writing style.

The core conceit of Robin has always been the adoption of a youth by an affluent white playboy. Every Robin has gone through this, and in a lot of ways, most of the other side characters/sidekicks have also gone through this same process. Duke really isn't any different. it is almost a rite of passage.

I don't see DC giving the mantle of Batman to another character any time soon. We've experienced Bruce losing the mantle twice in the last decade. Dick worked really well. Gordon was far more controversial, and he's a character that is core to the mythos of Batman and is a much beloved character. Some new guy coming in and taking the mantle would really alienate a lot of fans. Doesn't matter if that character was white, black, male, female, etc.

Also, on some level, do you not consider it disrespectful and disappointing that the only way DC and Marvel can push POC/Female character is by giving them the mantle of an established (white male) character? When was the last time we got a true POC character that was not a mantle taker? Jaime and Damian both took mantles. Deadpool is white. Harley Quinn fits the female part but she was created in the 90's. Do we have to go back to Cyborg in the 80's to find a male POC character that has found traction? For a female POC character, would it be Vixen (although she is hardly a big name now-a-days).

I think a black Batman would be cool but I think an entirely new character that Marvel and DC really push to the fore would be far more intriguing than a guy who will lose his reason for being once Bruce inevitably re-takes the mantle. In characters like Cyborg and Luke Cage we can see how organically growing a new character creates a far more meaningful and cool character in the long run than simply creating a new character to take another character's mantle.

[Kenn-El]

I thought the art was terrific. Glad Janin found a new gig after Grayson fizzled.

[Pohzee]

We just got Bruce back and people already want to get rid of him?

[Panfoot]

I think it's harder to pass down the mantle with DC characters given the more mythological status the big 3 have taken on. To most people Batman and Bruce Wayne are one in the same and can't be separated, and the few times we have had someone else under the cowl like Azrael or Jim Gordan, the whole point of the story was that they AREN'T Batman(I've never read Morrison's run so I can't really speak about Grayson as Batman). I think the best chance for a black batman would be to establish Duke as a Robin(or as it is going, a not Robin but pretty much Robin) and then taking the cowl down the line the next time Bruce "dies" or some situation comes up.

[The Gorn Identity]

We just got Bruce back and people already want to get rid of him?

No. Hell no.

[Black Charger]

Robin Fan 4880 hit the nail on the head. You can't get rid of a decades old character just to meet some inane need to push a p.c. agenda. Creating new characters is fine as long as you develop their own unique character and identity. Luke Cage is a good example, he's had and has his own book and will have his own Netflix series and readers like who he his. He's his own man and not trying to be another man.
Some people would say Sam Wilson should just be his own Falcon identity in his book rather than being Captain America because they feel it's one character stealing another character's identity. Some may feel that if anyone can adequately fill the roll and bring his own style to it it's Sam Wilson, kinda like how a lot of people feel if anybody but Bruce Wayne were to be Batman it would Dick Grayson. The best example I can give would be The Black Mirror deluxe edition.
Creating new, diverse and unique characters is fine and it's best they develop their own persona, not usurp a pre-existing one.

[JasonTodd428]

No one did anything in the comic, not just the black characters. It is, in fact, the major complaint that is most often heard when referencing the comic. It was filler, pure and simple. Maybe there is pay off in the future, probably not. It only serves to tie up all of the loose ends from Snyder's run and give people a taste of King's writing style.

The core conceit of Robin has always been the adoption of a youth by an affluent white playboy. Every Robin has gone through this, and in a lot of ways, most of the other side characters/sidekicks have also gone through this same process. Duke really isn't any different. it is almost a rite of passage.

I don't see DC giving the mantle of Batman to another character any time soon. We've experienced Bruce losing the mantle twice in the last decade. Dick worked really well. Gordon was far more controversial, and he's a character that is core to the mythos of Batman and is a much beloved character. Some new guy coming in and taking the mantle would really alienate a lot of fans. Doesn't matter if that character was white, black, male, female, etc.

Also, on some level, do you not consider it disrespectful and disappointing that the only way DC and Marvel can push POC/Female character is by giving them the mantle of an established (white male) character? When was the last time we got a true POC character that was not a mantle taker? Jaime and Damian both took mantles. Deadpool is white. Harley Quinn fits the female part but she was created in the 90's. Do we have to go back to Cyborg in the 80's to find a male POC character that has found traction? For a female POC character, would it be Vixen (although she is hardly a big name now-a-days).

I think a black Batman would be cool but I think an entirely new character that Marvel and DC really push to the fore would be far more intriguing than a guy who will lose his reason for being once Bruce inevitably re-takes the mantle. In characters like Cyborg and Luke Cage we can see how organically growing a new character creates a far more meaningful and cool character in the long run than simply creating a new character to take another character's mantle.

Man do I wish we could like posts here.

[skyvolt2000]

Robin Fan 4880 hit the nail on the head. You can't get rid of a decades old character just to meet some inane need to push a p.c. agenda. Creating new characters is fine as long as you develop their own unique character and identity. Luke Cage is a good example, he's had and has his own book and will have his own Netflix series and readers like who he his. He's his own man and not trying to be another man.

Creating new, diverse and unique characters is fine and it's best they develop their own persona, not usurp a pre-existing one.

How can I build up Duke if Batman fans don't want him in the book period to the point they will not buy it?

How can I build up Cassandra Cain as her own persona if I have to fight the head of DC Comic to just use her?

How can I build up Cyborg when NOBODY wants him to be something other than a lonely loser who cries about his Daddy not loving him. Same issue with Storm of the X-Men.

The same folks crying about why can Sam Wilson have a book as Falcon are the same ones who WON'T buy it. Or stores won't sell it.

How can I build up my establish POC when they get as much hate as guys like Miles & John Stewart?

Then we got fans who don't want them around PERIOD even if it's in a book they are NOT reading.


Right now of all the black heroes who have ran through DC-only ONE has his own everything and DC doesn't own him-Static.

That is DC's failure of POC.

Luke Cage & Black Panther boast 9 lead solo (colead in Cage's case) titles. 275+ issues between them.

Of Dc's ORIGINAL guys that they OWN-(no Steel, Kyle, John, Cassandra Cain, Jaime) Black Lighting has 25. Batwing has to be split since he was 2 guys. Otherwise Hardware, Icon & Static are you top original published under DC guys.

We would not need POC legacies if Dc backup the ESTABLISH original created POC they have. And STAND up to those who would scream PC agenda instead of caving in. If someone won't read a book with Duke in it-why is he being listed to?

[Nick Miller]

If mr. Illedge read the books featuring duke, he would know he is his own character, not a sidekick, and not adopted or supported by Bruce.

His story continues....this was a one shot resetting the batverse

[Lhynn]

How can I build up Duke if Batman fans don't want him in the book period to the point they will not buy it?

Give him his own book! oh wait, they did, and it sucked.

How can I build up Cassandra Cain as her own persona if I have to fight the head of DC Comic to just use her?

Didnt she have a solo? we all agree it was a bad decision to pull the plug on it, but she could be just as successful or more today if they gave her a solo.

The same folks crying about why can Sam Wilson have a book as Falcon are the same ones who WON'T buy it. Or stores won't sell it.

I dont see a problem here. If theres no demand for it then why push it?

How can I build up my establish POC when they get as much hate as guys like Miles & John Stewart?

If it isnt wanted why push it?

Then we got fans who don't want them around PERIOD even if it's in a book they are NOT reading.

Ignore those i guess. But the limited contact ive had with the comicbook community tells me that this statement you just made is completely wrong and kind of silly.

That is DC's failure of POC.

I think it has more to do with the readership.

We would not need POC legacies if Dc backup the ESTABLISH original created POC they have. And STAND up to those who would scream PC agenda instead of caving in. If someone won't read a book with Duke in it-why is he being listed to?

They should do what makes sense business wise. If theres no demand or no sufficient demand for a book, why would they do it? why lose money? Like, i get it, they should totally give their readership what they want. I want a solo Tim Drake book, and a RR/Impulse/Superboy book, and i honestly think they would do well. But i cant ask them to do it at a loss, or blame them for cancelling it if it didnt sell. At most i can ask them to do it and hope theres enough people doing the same to convince them to do it.

[BCya]

I thought the first 4 Rebirth books were all kind of empty. Not that they were bad, but just not filling.

And this guy complains about everything, and would never be satisfied how race is handled in anything, so it is mostly meaningless.

[JBatmanFan05]

One of the worst articles I've read on CBR. Person knows nothing of DC and where Batman is at right now.

[Maquiame]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazin...28DC_Comics%29

Civil Rights Activist

In the 1950s, his secret identity was revealed to the general public by J. Edgar Hoover. This act endangered the lives of Everett's wife and family. During the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, the murder of his nephew alongside two other civil rights activists spurred his involvement in the Civil Rights Movement of the time. He led marches against segregation across the United States of America, and also helped to quell riots in Detroit. Everett was also responsible for the capture of Martin Luther King's murderer James Earl Ray. In the DC Comics Universe, he is considered the third most important advocate for African American civil rights, behind acclaimed activists Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.[7]



Where the hell is Amazing Man?

[Icefalcon]

Where the hell is Amazing Man?

Last thing I knew he was dead.

We had two of his grandsons in Geoff Johns JSA one of whom was also called Will and was also killed. The survivor, Markus Clay to the best of my knowledge hasn't been in N52 at all, but as I've read less and less titles as times gone on I could be wrong.