A Brief History Of Time: Unpacking DC's Reboots, Relaunches & Retcons

[Dataweaver]

And you ignored DC's first soft reboot (since it hadn't been done before, it was hard to recognize, since it wasn't sold as such) at the end of 1968: the Infantino makeover of the DC line involved reorientation of the entire line, the death of the Doom Patrol, the cancellation of many series, new approaches to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, cataclysmic alterations to the origins of various characters (including J'onn J'onzz, whose connection from anything from his original storyline was unceremoniously contradicted almost in toto) and planets (eventually including Rann and Thanagar, which went from peaceful to warlike), the intro of the Kirby universe, and a complete change in tone (viz., Green Lantern/Green Arrow), all clearly characteristics of all the later, more formal reboots.

That's a very good point — although, as you pointed out, it is easy to miss.

So:
1.0 — Golden Age
1.1 — Superboy
2.0 — Silver Age
2.1 — Multiverse
2.2 — Bronze Age
3.0 — post-Crisis
3.1 — rolling reboots
3.2 — Zero Hour
3.3 — Hypertime
3.4 — more rolling reboots
3.5 — Crisis Cycle
4.0 — New 52
4.1 — Convergence
4.2/5.0 — Rebirth

Oh: I think a case could be made that there were some rolling reboots in the Bronze Age period. IIRC, the term “retcon” entered comic book fandom initially due to the ongoing background changes that were being featured in the Earth 2 comics, as they struggled to cope with their origins being firmly rooted in WWⅡ while their present quickly distanced itself from there.

[Dataweaver]

Although I understand the rationale behind the original Crisis, it was badly handled. Instead of telling readers "all those stories really happened - but in a universe we can no longer access," before doing a company-wide hard reboot of all its titles, fans were left feeling (rightly or wrongly) that their favorite tales had been invalidated. On top of which, apparently some writers refused the idea of a reboot on the titles they were currently writing. So it solved very little and left more continuity messes to be dealt with later.

Anybody ever wonder if Marvel's attitude of "benign neglect" hasn't served them better ? Aside from few dated references revised (like Reed Richards' memory of the girl he left at home changed from WW2 to the Korean War), most potential problems ("Cap in the 1950's ? /shrug/ Not the real one.") were ignored until someone like Steve Englehart finds a clever way to make a story out of it. I mean realistically, shouldn't Peter Parker be on Social Security by now ?

Although the "House of Ideas" has their share of universes (Squadron Supreme, Squadron Sinister, the one where Superman fought Spider-Man, the Ultimates - heck, basically the entire run of "What If?"), it's nowhere near as confusing as keeping track of, say, which Superboy is which.

So which Spider-Man is which, and is the pre-SW multiverse the same or different from the post-SW multiverse?

[twincast]

4.2/5.0 — Rebirth

Everything points to the Rebirth era from now till two years from now most likely being another set of rolling changes (i.e. 4.2), at the end of which a final confrontation with Dr. Manhattan should (temporarily ) solidify the DCU into either a 5.0 or a 4.3 (or a 3.6).

[Dataweaver]

I think it would be fair to look at the next two years as a single event, kicked off by DCU: Rebirth and most likely concluding with a confrontation of some sort with Dr. Manhattan. That is, it's all Rebirth. And, yeah, it's way too early to predict whether the result will be 5.0, 4.2, or 3.6 — though I personally suspect 4.2, with the New 52 stories remaining fully in-continuity (with minor edits to allow for a longer timeline) and with most of the remaining developments not even qualifying as retcons so much as a change in direction.

[ArachKing05]

So which Spider-Man is which, and is the pre-SW multiverse the same or different from the post-SW multiverse?

IMO, the Peter Parker in continuity is the same guy who debuted in Amazing Fantasy #15; stuff like his marriage to MJ being erased from existence by Mephisto aren't retcons in the same context as Crisis. The few attempts there were to fundamentally alter Spidey's origins (Chapter One, JMS' initial run w/Morlun before The Other & Spider-Verse)fell by the wayside, with good reason IMO.

And the post-Secret Wars Multiverse isn't the same, b/c of the destroyed Earths whose displaced inhabitants now call Earth-616 home.

In fact the whole post-SW status quo brings to mind the immediate aftermath of COIE, where the characters present at the Spectre & Anti-Monitor's battle (initially)remembered their previous/now out-of-continuity lives. Secret Wars would have been a whole LOT messier if they'd copied CRISIS in retroactively inserting characters into continuity (and I HOPE Marvel don't end up doing that).

Anybody ever wonder if Marvel's attitude of "benign neglect" hasn't served them better ? Aside from few dated references revised (like Reed Richards' memory of the girl he left at home changed from WW2 to the Korean War), most potential problems ("Cap in the 1950's ? /shrug/ Not the real one.") were ignored until someone like Steve Englehart finds a clever way to make a story out of it. I mean realistically, shouldn't Peter Parker be on Social Security by now?

I recall there was an Earth-2-esque 'real-time progression' Earth that actually had Peter become Spidey in 1962.

[ArachKing05]

I guess the concept of parallel universes/multiverse in superhero comics is synonymously a DC thing, but I feel at times Marvel could have made more expansive use of its own before Spider-Verse and Secret Wars. Marvel Zombies, the Squadron Supreme/Sinister and every dystopian-future X-Men story only go so far

[Dataweaver]

IMO, the Peter Parker in continuity is the same guy who debuted in Amazing Fantasy #15; stuff like his marriage to MJ being erased from existence by Mephisto aren't retcons in the same context as Crisis. The few attempts there were to fundamentally alter Spidey's origins (Chapter One, JMS' initial run w/Morlun before The Other & Spider-Verse)fell by the wayside, with good reason IMO.

I was referring to Peter Parker vs. Miles Morales.

And the post-Secret Wars Multiverse isn't the same, b/c of the destroyed Earths whose displaced inhabitants now call Earth-616 home.

In fact the whole post-SW status quo brings to mind the immediate aftermath of COIE, where the characters present at the Spectre & Anti-Monitor's battle (initially)remembered their previous/now out-of-continuity lives. Secret Wars would have been a whole LOT messier if they'd copied CRISIS in retroactively inserting characters into continuity (and I HOPE Marvel don't end up doing that).

That's my point: the recent Secret Wars has basically been their Crisis on Infinite Earths, complete with an ending which dumps popular heroes from different worlds onto a single world. Note that Miles Morales' supporting cast got integrated into the fabric of Marvel's new prime Earth; and Miles' former existence in the now-drestroyed Ultimate Universe is effectively fading away, as that existence no longer has any impact.

I recall there was an Earth-2-esque 'real-time progression' Earth that actually had Peter become Spidey in 1962.

I wouldn't call it a “real time progression” Earth; but MC-2 went with the notion that Peter had debuted as Spidey in 1962 as a teenager, and now he's all grown up with a teenaged spider-powered daughter following in his web-prints. It wasn't “real time progression” because his daughter's career as Spider-Girl didn't progress in real time; its ten(?)-year run covered maybe a year and a half of her life.

[ArachKing05]

I was referring to Peter Parker vs. Miles Morales.

Oh, sorry. Then Earth-616/Prime Marvel Peter, no question.

Note that Miles Morales' supporting cast got integrated into the fabric of Marvel's new prime Earth; and Miles' former existence in the now-drestroyed Ultimate Universe is effectively fading away, as that existence no longer has any impact.

I'd say he's the only character from what I've seen who's gone through that. The Supreme Power Nighthawk has had to adopt a new civilian identity from scratch to forge a life on Prime Marvel Earth, and hasn't been retrofitted into its continuity as such.

I wouldn't call it a “real time progression” Earth; but MC-2 went with the notion that Peter had debuted as Spidey in 1962 as a teenager, and now he's all grown up with a teenaged spider-powered daughter following in his web-prints. It wasn't “real time progression” because his daughter's career as Spider-Girl didn't progress in real time; its ten(?)-year run covered maybe a year and a half of her life.

MC2's not the alternate-Earth I had in mind, it's this one - and I always thought MC2 took place in a future where civilization stayed freeze-framed in the early-'00s (LOL)

[NYCER]

I think that's more a case of bad reporting than anything else.

Fact checking aside, no, it's not.

It goes to the reality that DC has pressed the reboot/retcon button one time too many and instead of cleaning up and streamlining continuities, DC only further muddied its already damn dirty continuity waters.

And this article's author's confusion/failure to make definitive statements as to the results of DC's past and present reboots are evidence of DC's ongoing and, given its failure to learn from history, future screw ups.

[twincast]

I guess the concept of parallel universes/multiverse in superhero comics is synonymously a DC thing, but I feel at times Marvel could have made more expansive use of its own before Spider-Verse and Secret Wars. Marvel Zombies, the Squadron Supreme/Sinister and every dystopian-future X-Men story only go so far

You mean like Exiles?

MC2's not the alternate-Earth I had in mind, it's this one - and I always thought MC2 took place in a future where civilization stayed freeze-framed in the early-'00s (LOL)

MC2 is/was "present day", with the Clone Saga having happened about 15 years before on a sliding timescale.

[GlennSimpson]

Fact checking aside, no, it's not.

It goes to the reality that DC has pressed the reboot/retcon button one time too many and instead of cleaning up and streamlining continuities, DC only further muddied its already damn dirty continuity waters.

And this article's author's confusion/failure to make definitive statements as to the results of DC's past and present reboots are evidence of DC's ongoing and, given its failure to learn from history, future screw ups.

Actually, I just went back and re-read it, and I have to apologize to the author - he presents things in a fairly accurate manner, at least up until the point where he starts trying to put the numbered changes on it, at which point he is trying to apply structure to something that wasn't designed to have that structure (which isn't the end of the world, but it is going to lead to some subjectivity).

Sure he missed some details but hell this isn't that important a topic.

DC has changed their continuity a lot. I don't see where the problem is.

[NYCER]

DC has changed their continuity a lot. I don't see where the problem is.

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree because therein lies the problem: DC cannot pick a lane continuity-wise and just stick to it. Why DC has to press the reset/reboot button so much in relatively short time frames is boggling as a reader. Perhaps as a sales boosting gimmick it works short term, but long term it doesn't. So DC adhering to this fatally flawed creative/business plan makes no sense. And untangling DC's continuity messes is a headache and far from entertaining. REBIRTH only added further to the mess.

[GlennSimpson]

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree because therein lies the problem: DC cannot pick a lane continuity-wise and just stick to it. Why DC has to press the reset/reboot button so much in relatively short time frames is boggling as a reader. Perhaps as a sales boosting gimmick it works short term, but long term it doesn't. So DC adhering to this fatally flawed creative/business plan makes no sense. And untangling DC's continuity messes is a headache and far from entertaining. REBIRTH only added further to the mess.

It's not a headache. Whatever the last thing they told you is what happened. If there's anything you're having trouble with, let me know and I'll be happy to try to explain.

And while I'm sure DC would love to find a way to gain and keep attention without doing this stuff, I doubt anyone has come up with a viable alternative. "Make good comics" doesn't necessarily work, as that is a subjective concept.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree because therein lies the problem: DC cannot pick a lane continuity-wise and just stick to it. Why DC has to press the reset/reboot button so much in relatively short time frames is boggling as a reader. Perhaps as a sales boosting gimmick it works short term, but long term it doesn't. So DC adhering to this fatally flawed creative/business plan makes no sense. And untangling DC's continuity messes is a headache and far from entertaining. REBIRTH only added further to the mess.

I get a bit torn on this issue because I really like solid continuity, but the N52 taught me that sometimes you can be too tied to pushing your continuity causing you to miss the forest for the trees. I want it all to make sense, but really there is no way to reconcile all of DC's continuity, however I'm fine with that if it means we get old characters back, history of relationships and legacy. Is it perfect, no, but ultimately if the stories are good we can make sense of it. Honestly, we all know the basic outlines of almost all DC characters. It looks like WW is going to get a new origin, but everyone else is about the same with a stretched out timeline. It is what it is

[NYCER]

It's not a headache. Whatever the last thing they told you is what happened. If there's anything you're having trouble with, let me know and I'll be happy to try to explain.

And while I'm sure DC would love to find a way to gain and keep attention without doing this stuff, I doubt anyone has come up with a viable alternative. "Make good comics" doesn't necessarily work, as that is a subjective concept.

I don't need help with sorting out DC's headache inducing continuities though I appreciate the offer.

As you said, "'mak[ing] good comics' . . . is a subjective concept" and to me, DC's most recent reboot, retention of bad leadership and recycling tired talent demonstrate that DC has no idea how to "make good comics" anymore and, really, for quite a while now.

I stuck it out for over 3 decades, but it's time to scale back big time because DC isn't making product worth my money and, more importantly, my time.