$3.99 for floppies on fancy paper, or $1.99 for floppies on newsprint?

[Trey Strain]

Which would you rather pay for DC's titles, if you could get the collections on fancy paper either way?

[Bor]

I am not sure why we are supposed to ignore the 2,99 price point, which DC also uses,for this poll.

[Trey Strain]

The arguments have been made in that other thread. Nobody's pay would get cut. Alterna Comics is already doing it successfully, and is charging as little as $.99 for some of its titles.

[Carabas]

The arguments have been made in that other thread. Nobody's pay would get cut. Alterna Comics is already doing it successfully, and is charging as little as $.99 for some of its titles.

Alterna has only just started doing it. It remains to be seen if they'll be able to keep doing that. Traditionally, Alterna does not do floppies at all.

And according to their Kickstarter, it's not the price of the paper that makes the difference, but the price of the printing process.
They also aren't aiming their floppies at the direct market.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...back-newsprint

So, they're not in any way at all comparable to DC or Marvel.

[Osiris-Rex]

I am not sure why we are supposed to ignore the 2,99 price point, which DC also uses,for this poll.

I agree. Why is not $2.99 an option? I would pay $1 more to have the art on nice paper.

[Trey Strain]

I agree. Why is not $2.99 an option? I would pay $1 more to have the art on nice paper.

You're assuming that DC would be willing to cut the price by a dollar and keep using 50-pound paper on the floppies. I don't think they'd do that.

[BaneBreaker]

Alterna has only just started doing it. It remains to be seen if they'll be able to keep doing that. Traditionally, Alterna does not do floppies at all.

And according to their Kickstarter, it's not the price of the paper that makes the difference, but the price of the printing process.
They also aren't aiming their floppies at the direct market.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...back-newsprint

So, they're not in any way at all comparable to DC or Marvel.

Also, the titles they released were minis. A lot of 1 of 3, 1 of 4 type stuff.

[BaneBreaker]

You're assuming that DC would be willing to cut the price by a dollar and keep using 50-pound paper on the floppies. I don't think they'd do that.

DC already has the 2.99 price point on several of their titles now

[Bor]

You're assuming that DC would be willing to cut the price by a dollar and keep using 50-pound paper on the floppies. I don't think they'd do that.

He is not assuming anything when they are literaly doing it right now.

Did you just not put in the option because you did not want people to have the option of voting for something that already exist and therefor have less for your goal of 1,99? If so thats pretty lame.

[Osiris-Rex]

You're assuming that DC would be willing to cut the price by a dollar and keep using 50-pound paper on the floppies. I don't think they'd do that.

DC already has over 35 comic books that are $2.99, including Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Harley Quinn, Flash, Green Lanterns, Nightwing, Justice League, Suicide Squad.
Where-as Marvel, Archie, Aftershock, Boom, Darkhorse, Dynamite, IDW don't have a single book under $3.99. And Image only had four that are $2.99. Yet somehow DC is the bad guy.

[MRP]

Alterna is able to do it for now because their print runs are small and don't require a lot of newsprint or a lot of time on the presses. When newsprint was largely abandoned for everything but newspapers, the majority of the presses went into disuse, were abandoned and dismantled and are no longer available to be used. Production of newsprint itself to be used has dropped dramatically because there is no demand for it outside of the newspapers who buy most of the supply available to it.

About 2-3 years ago, I did some research into doing newsprint for a self-publishing studio that was looking to do a coloring book of their characters to sell at conventions on newsprint for the old school vibe. I was told point blank, that unless I already had a connection to get the paper, it was going to cost me more per page for newsprint than traditional white stock we used for other places and that 90% of the print shops out there no longer had the infrastructure in place to produce that kind of printing, Those print houses that still had the presses and were not owned by the actual newspapers were few and far between and most were not taking new clients, as there was no time available on the presses to produce the stuff since the newspapers took up the bulk of the printing time. Occasionally small jobs would be fit in between the larger jobs, but nothing on the scale of what producing a line of comics as big as DC has. So if they were to convert, they would have to invest to rebuild the infrastructure and likely have to invest in buying their own presses and finding a source for the newsprint paper itself, which would not be cheap, so on a large scale the economics might not work to make the actual comics less expensive to produce on newsprint, certainly not half the price. The printing industry has moved into the 21st century, and newsprint is a 20th cenrury vestige that is not sustainable unless you already have access to the diminishing supply of newsprint and press time. Alterna seemingly had ins to make it work and they are small enough that their needs for paper and time do not impinge on the existing infrastructure.

The other elephant in the room is Diamond. Are they going to be willing to lose half their revenue from their second biggest client if DC makes the switch. Diamond maximizes their revenue by doing the least work for the most money. That's why they have sales cutoffs before they even look at carrying a publisher and give special status to the big 5 who form the bulk of their distribution output. If DC is locked into a distribution deal with Diamond, they may not be able to change the nature of the deal, and if they do make the change and cut the revenue Diamond makes form them by half, what aspects of the deal will Diamond change now that Dc is a less profitable client for them? How about retailers? Less money earned by taking up the same amount of shelf space-how is that going to affect their bottom line when their margins are already razor thin and few have surplus operating capital to buy enough books beyond their pull list customer base, so losing 50% of their DC revenue is a non-starter for many of these. Changing to newsprint and lowering the price to $1.99 is not going to double sales. It's not a case of if you build it, they will come. New customers are not coming to the direct market for floppies. It's not a question of price, it's a matter of being a niche destination shop that sells to a limited customer base that doesn't grow the pie, only re-slices it from time to time. People would have to be going to the shop and see the books on the shelf to buy them before sales could grow, and because people aren't going to the shops and retailers don't have the extra capital to invest in books to stock shelves beyond pull lists except for proven sellers (and you are halving their revenue stream from DC and lowering their margins by cutting prices anyways) that's not going to happen and you won't see the needed growth in the customer base for this to work.

The industry definitely needs to find a way to grow it's customer base, but the answer is not looking backwards and it's not in floppies at any price or on any paper. Where we are seeing growth in the customer base is outside the direct market and in book formats and digital formats. That's were the new readers are, and they do not have a nostalgic connection to newsprint and they're not looking to buy floppies anyways, so if DC is going to invest in infrastructure growth and changes to their publishing plan, it needs to invest it in ways that captures and nurtures that growth market, not trying to recapture a market that no longer exists in a 21st century marketplace.

-M

[JasonTodd428]

I've already stated in the other posts that I'd rather pay $2.99 or even $3.99 for what we have now then to pay $1.99 for crappy newsprint that I'm allergic to. The later would end up costing me far more then I would supposedly save because of doctors visits etc.

Also since "$2.99 with good quality paper" isn't an option on this poll I really can't vote anyway because none of the options fit.

[Trey Strain]

It's not a matter of "doubling sales." They can keep the current sales numbers with the lower price point and still make the same amount of profit. That's because they'll be slashing their expenditures. It's not a giveaway. If they gain any sales at all, which they will, then their profits will increase.

The main calculation here is, where does this leave DC in regard to Marvel? What it does is to put Marvel in a precarious position by enticing customers to spend their limited dollars on 2X DC comics instead of on X Marvel comics.

[Trey Strain]

I've already stated in the other posts that I'd rather pay $2.99 or even $3.99 for what we have now then to pay $1.99 for crappy newsprint that I'm allergic to. The later would end up costing me far more then I would supposedly save because of doctors visits etc.

Also since "$2.99 with good quality paper" isn't an option on this poll I really can't vote anyway because none of the options fit.

Then you should urge DC to cut their prices to $2.99 and keep using 50-pound paper.

[JasonTodd428]

Alterna is able to do it for now because their print runs are small and don't require a lot of newsprint or a lot of time on the presses. When newsprint was largely abandoned for everything but newspapers, the majority of the presses went into disuse, were abandoned and dismantled and are no longer available to be used. Production of newsprint itself to be used has dropped dramatically because there is no demand for it outside of the newspapers who buy most of the supply available to it.

About 2-3 years ago, I did some research into doing newsprint for a self-publishing studio that was looking to do a coloring book of their characters to sell at conventions on newsprint for the old school vibe. I was told point blank, that unless I already had a connection to get the paper, it was going to cost me more per page for newsprint than traditional white stock we used for other places and that 90% of the print shops out there no longer had the infrastructure in place to produce that kind of printing, Those print houses that still had the presses and were not owned by the actual newspapers were few and far between and most were not taking new clients, as there was no time available on the presses to produce the stuff since the newspapers took up the bulk of the printing time. Occasionally small jobs would be fit in between the larger jobs, but nothing on the scale of what producing a line of comics as big as DC has. So if they were to convert, they would have to invest to rebuild the infrastructure and likely have to invest in buying their own presses and finding a source for the newsprint paper itself, which would not be cheap, so on a large scale the economics might not work to make the actual comics less expensive to produce on newsprint, certainly not half the price. The printing industry has moved into the 21st century, and newsprint is a 20th cenrury vestige that is not sustainable unless you already have access to the diminishing supply of newsprint and press time. Alterna seemingly had ins to make it work and they are small enough that their needs for paper and time do not impinge on the existing infrastructure.

The other elephant in the room is Diamond. Are they going to be willing to lose half their revenue from their second biggest client if DC makes the switch. Diamond maximizes their revenue by doing the least work for the most money. That's why they have sales cutoffs before they even look at carrying a publisher and give special status to the big 5 who form the bulk of their distribution output. If DC is locked into a distribution deal with Diamond, they may not be able to change the nature of the deal, and if they do make the change and cut the revenue Diamond makes form them by half, what aspects of the deal will Diamond change now that Dc is a less profitable client for them? How about retailers? Less money earned by taking up the same amount of shelf space-how is that going to affect their bottom line when their margins are already razor thin and few have surplus operating capital to buy enough books beyond their pull list customer base, so losing 50% of their DC revenue is a non-starter for many of these. Changing to newsprint and lowering the price to $1.99 is not going to double sales. It's not a case of if you build it, they will come. New customers are not coming to the direct market for floppies. It's not a question of price, it's a matter of being a niche destination shop that sells to a limited customer base that doesn't grow the pie, only re-slices it from time to time. People would have to be going to the shop and see the books on the shelf to buy them before sales could grow, and because people aren't going to the shops and retailers don't have the extra capital to invest in books to stock shelves beyond pull lists except for proven sellers (and you are halving their revenue stream from DC and lowering their margins by cutting prices anyways) that's not going to happen and you won't see the needed growth in the customer base for this to work.

The industry definitely needs to find a way to grow it's customer base, but the answer is not looking backwards and it's not in floppies at any price or on any paper. Where we are seeing growth in the customer base is outside the direct market and in book formats and digital formats. That's were the new readers are, and they do not have a nostalgic connection to newsprint and they're not looking to buy floppies anyways, so if DC is going to invest in infrastructure growth and changes to their publishing plan, it needs to invest it in ways that captures and nurtures that growth market, not trying to recapture a market that no longer exists in a 21st century marketplace.

-M

QFT. Especially with regard to where the new readers are likely getting their comic book fix.