THUNDERBOLTS #2 Spoiler & Review

[Cthulhudrew]

Snipped- a whole bunch of stuff that I could not agree more heartedly with, but it is worth everyone checking out his original post. Really.

I'm so with you, Doctor-Comics.

I'm a TBolts fan from the get-go. They are what got me back into comics back after I'd dropped them entirely during the largely forgettable Marvel 90s. The twist- "These guys are the Masters of Evil?"- I just couldn't avoid looking into, and Kurt Busiek's excellent writing kept me on board, and even brought me into his other work- Avengers, which he relaunched around that time with Heroes Reborn- as well as other titles. Fabian Nicieza continued that excellent legacy, turning some of these C- and D-list characters into some of the most well-developed and interesting characters. Largely, I think, because they were so incidental to the other "big" titles that the writers were allowed a lot of creative leeway that seems lacking in titles with more public appeal.

That said, I am dropping this book as of this issue. I was pretty underwhelmed by the first issue and am even moreso here. Kobik continues to demonstrate that not only is she the epitome of the worst child character archetypes anywhere (clueless, whiney, silly), but it looks like Zub plans on writing her to the most blatant clichés of such characters. The "OMGWOW!" cliffhanger at the end of last issue turns out, unsurprisingly, to be of little consequence- at least of immediacy, though I would hope it has some longer term ramifications even if I won't be sticking around to see them. The characterizations are still not very good: the Fixer has turned into quite the foul-mouth for some odd reason, and while I could see Norbert not particularly being concerned with propriety in terms of swearing, his constant casual cursing here is a... different character choice for him. Atlas is acting a bit duller and careless than ever, and one could be forgiven for forgetting Abe is even in this title.

Then, too, is oddity of the conflict between some of the team members (such as Bucky) not wanting to just eradicate the Inhumans, but being perfectly willing to engage in wholesale, cold-blooded murder once they start to hatch (a process, note, that was initiated by the Thunderbolts themselves). To top it off, then, they just burn the whole thing like Karla first suggested. These things are at least still somewhat human, right? So now this team is just a bunch of murderers, effectively. (And let's not forget they are completely unsanctioned and even on the run from the legal authority of the land.)

We are still given no motive to why these particular members have chosen to get together aside from a brief and unconvincing aside in issue #1, nor even what exactly the team's mandate is supposed to be. And now we're just being set up for a slugfest with other good guys next issue.

And the artwork.

Glad to see that some people are enjoying this, but just as I dropped it after Gage's run, I'm done with this incarnation of the TBolts. They may look the same, but they're not my TBolts, nor are they even a group I'm interested in reading much more about.

[Icefalcon]

This is my first CBR post. Sorry it's going to be so angry.

Cards on the table: I'm a huge Thunderbolts fan. I have the complete run, minus the Fightbolts stuff and most of the Rulk stuff.

So I am not, admittedly, impartial. I care too much about this title and these characters.

But, everyone, this incarnation of the Thunderbolts, top to bottom, is awful.

I'm going to imagine that Zub was hamstrung and forced to include both the Inhumans and Kobik, so I won't hold that against him, but Kobik is one of the worst story decisions in a long time.

She's an all-powerful child. There's really not much that can be done with that, because she can in fact solve every problem the Thunderbolts encounter. Attacked by aliens? Kindly ask the super toddler, who is begging for acceptance, to build a cage out of something or other and put all the aliens in there until things can get worked out.

Instead, Bucky tells her to sit tight, stay close, and stay quiet. The Winter Soldier puts his most powerful weapon in time out.

That's not the only instance where the story requires the characters to be stupid. Atlas, upon being told to contain the alien threat, gets so big that he lets them all out. Techno helps them hatch by jamming an electro-whatever into one of the eggs. Moonstone waltzes through the whole story covered in blood.

Stories that rely on your characters being so stupid aren't worth reading.

Additionally, the heroes go about the business of slaughtering the aliens without any clue as to the aliens' motivation. Frankly, that's not what heroes do, and though Moonstone and Techno are most of the time only marginally heroes, Mach X and Atlas aren't that way, and Bucky most certainly is supposed to be a hero.

The dialogue is a failure in its attempt to be edgy. The use of typographic characters to depict swearing is distracting. Maybe Zub is trying to be more accurate with the way he depicts people speaking, but he's no Mark Twain.

And, really, calling Ron Burgandy a "sage" on page two is no way to start a book you want taken seriously.

I appreciate that some commenters like the 90s throwback art, but there's a reason we've moved past that approach. Malin's art is everything that was bad about that time in comic's history. No one has eyes, no one has feet, backgrounds disappear, anatomy falls apart.

Moonstone's draped across panels, in her underwear, bloodied. It's not impactful, it's exploitative, and, most importantly, ugly.

I defy anyone, having read this issue, to close it and give a description of the aliens. They are generic Brood/Xenomorph/Spindly Bugs.

So, as far as the art goes, there's nothing here we haven't already seen and moved beyond. If the book was somehow commenting upon that history, perhaps it would have something to say, but there's no evidence that the creators are aware they are walking the same roads that have already been walked in every issue of "Brigade" from 1994.

And that brings me to my main problem with these Thunderbolts. This team has always said something interesting about the superhero genre, or the nature of good and evil. There is nothing about this book that makes it anything but a boring, needlessly violent, tired retread.

It makes me sad.

I couldn't agree more. I want to like this book but I'm finding more and more reasons not to. I think it's time to vote with my feet.

[strathcona]

This is my first CBR post. Sorry it's going to be so angry.

Cards on the table: I'm a huge Thunderbolts fan. I have the complete run, minus the Fightbolts stuff and most of the Rulk stuff.

So I am not, admittedly, impartial. I care too much about this title and these characters.

But, everyone, this incarnation of the Thunderbolts, top to bottom, is awful.

I'm going to imagine that Zub was hamstrung and forced to include both the Inhumans and Kobik, so I won't hold that against him, but Kobik is one of the worst story decisions in a long time.

She's an all-powerful child. There's really not much that can be done with that, because she can in fact solve every problem the Thunderbolts encounter. Attacked by aliens? Kindly ask the super toddler, who is begging for acceptance, to build a cage out of something or other and put all the aliens in there until things can get worked out.

Instead, Bucky tells her to sit tight, stay close, and stay quiet. The Winter Soldier puts his most powerful weapon in time out.

That's not the only instance where the story requires the characters to be stupid. Atlas, upon being told to contain the alien threat, gets so big that he lets them all out. Techno helps them hatch by jamming an electro-whatever into one of the eggs. Moonstone waltzes through the whole story covered in blood.

Stories that rely on your characters being so stupid aren't worth reading.

Additionally, the heroes go about the business of slaughtering the aliens without any clue as to the aliens' motivation. Frankly, that's not what heroes do, and though Moonstone and Techno are most of the time only marginally heroes, Mach X and Atlas aren't that way, and Bucky most certainly is supposed to be a hero.

The dialogue is a failure in its attempt to be edgy. The use of typographic characters to depict swearing is distracting. Maybe Zub is trying to be more accurate with the way he depicts people speaking, but he's no Mark Twain.

And, really, calling Ron Burgandy a "sage" on page two is no way to start a book you want taken seriously.

I appreciate that some commenters like the 90s throwback art, but there's a reason we've moved past that approach. Malin's art is everything that was bad about that time in comic's history. No one has eyes, no one has feet, backgrounds disappear, anatomy falls apart.

Moonstone's draped across panels, in her underwear, bloodied. It's not impactful, it's exploitative, and, most importantly, ugly.

I defy anyone, having read this issue, to close it and give a description of the aliens. They are generic Brood/Xenomorph/Spindly Bugs.

So, as far as the art goes, there's nothing here we haven't already seen and moved beyond. If the book was somehow commenting upon that history, perhaps it would have something to say, but there's no evidence that the creators are aware they are walking the same roads that have already been walked in every issue of "Brigade" from 1994.

And that brings me to my main problem with these Thunderbolts. This team has always said something interesting about the superhero genre, or the nature of good and evil. There is nothing about this book that makes it anything but a boring, needlessly violent, tired retread.

It makes me sad.

You feel a little more strongly about this than I do, but I agree with you. This was not a good comic. My immediate reaction to this issue was wondering why they just started killing all the Inhumans indiscriminately. Then I realized that this book won't be around long. I give it 8 issues unless they do something drastic.

[Kieran_Frost]

Another wonderful issue. So so happy

[Michael Watkins]

I wonder if they'll make a Charcoal reference after fighting the Inhuman rock kid.

[Kieran_Frost]

I wonder if they'll make a Charcoal reference after fighting the Inhuman rock kid.

They can't. Ever.

[Michael Watkins]

They can't. Ever.

could they get away with using the name 'Burlingame?'

[Kieran_Frost]

could they get away with using the name 'Burlingame?'

Why bother? Too much of a risk the guy will sue again. Stupid. Ruining his own creation for a little bit of cash

[Blu_Spyder]

I'm with Kieran on this one, amazing issue, good dialogue among characters, characters are pretty much in character (Moonstone is her snarky, "above it all self", Fixer is a ruthless pragmatist ("As much as I would love to slit that child's throat & call it a day" that's cold), Abe is..well Abe I guess (he's not a mopey bastard of Jon Snowian proportions that's hitting things unintentionally with his wings on his armour {hey I loved Superior Foes of Spider Man as well} we'll see as the series progresses, Atlas is Atlas so so far so good). The artwork I can take or leave, as much as I love the artwork of Chris Samnee, Sana Takada, Annie Wu, David Aja, Steve Lieber, Javier Pulido (to name a few) one of the main characters is a six year old girl that can give Franklin Richards a run for his money power wise, so it's a good fit for the series (unless Skottie Young takes over the artwork, {doubtful, but his rendition of Kobik would be gold}, and Kev Walker, & Paco Medina are busy). This is a series I look forward to each month with Black Widow.

[bishop88]

i too so wanted to like this book but as soon as i saw the mention of possible inhuman nonsense issue 1 i was skeptical and now with more of these awful inhumans polluting anotehr marvel book i wont be back for issue 3 marvel really needs to stop this and using the inhumans as a selling point for marvel books its not wrking...just an aside i love peter david but similiary when spidey 2099 they had some inhuman nonsense pollute that book i dropped it and havent been back

[Johnrevenge]

Why bother? Too much of a risk the guy will sue again. Stupid. Ruining his own creation for a little bit of cash

Yeah what happened with all the Charcoal stuff, sucked a lot. It's a shame what happened

[Lucena Soares]

i too so wanted to like this book but as soon as i saw the mention of possible inhuman nonsense issue 1 i was skeptical and now with more of these awful inhumans polluting anotehr marvel book i wont be back for issue 3 marvel really needs to stop this and using the inhumans as a selling point for marvel books its not wrking...just an aside i love peter david but similiary when spidey 2099 they had some inhuman nonsense pollute that book i dropped it and havent been back

Ok. Bye-bye.

[protege]

Two issues in, and the cracks are already starting to show for me. Moonstone and fixer are vying for least likeable for me, and kobik just makes me cringe. Then there's the art, which really doesn't look right. Mach whatever really looks generic.