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  1. #151
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I love the way this book feels like it is pivoting towards a final act. I am genuinely not sure where it is going even though I have an inkling that the finale will be what I was thinking from day one.

    The character assassination video is a kind of stealth recap page that hints at things to come.

    One immediate prediction. Laura has thrown off Persephone, hence why Persephone has gone.
    I saw a theory in Reddit claiming that the 4th rule would relate to a God willingly forsaking Godhood. Thus Minervananke's freak out when Cass says "Persephone does not exist."

    But Gillen is a master at subverting expectations, so the end of the arc ("in every possible mening," as the solicit says) can't come soon enough.

  2. #152
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeniSam View Post
    I saw a theory in Reddit claiming that the 4th rule would relate to a God willingly forsaking Godhood. Thus Minervananke's freak out when Cass says "Persephone does not exist."

    But Gillen is a master at subverting expectations, so the end of the arc ("in every possible mening," as the solicit says) can't come soon enough.
    Put it this way. Throwing off her godhood is not necessarily giving up. I have said all along Ananke underestimates modern youth culture, and Laura is the one who understands it the most.

    I am not sure that this will end up being the fourth rule. I suspect Persephone represents innovation and over the centuries has set something up with that fourth rule which will be an enabler for Laura once she is mortal again.

    I foresee some kind of loophole to allow far greater numbers becoming gods. This is foreshadowed in the clip where Cass can’t understand the silent rave. Dionysus lives on through his art. The transformative power of art and music mirrors the Greek mystery cults. Death and darkness can be overcome.

    Laura represents something unique to her fans. A way in. A promise of apotheosis. A messiah.

    Just as populism was explored in the previous cycle so might it be again. Only this time not populist politics based on the elite leading the people and resulting in the horrors of the 20th century, but a folk movement.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-22-2018 at 01:30 AM.

  3. #153
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Put it this way. Throwing off her godhood is not necessarily giving up. I have said all along Ananke underestimates modern youth culture, and Laura is the one who understands it the most.

    I am not sure that this will end up being the fourth rule. I suspect Persephone represents innovation and over the centuries has set something up with that fourth rule which will be an enabler for Laura once she is mortal again.

    I foresee some kind of loophole to allow far greater numbers becoming gods. This is foreshadowed in the clip where Cass can’t understand the silent rave. Dionysus lives on through his art. The transformative power of art and music mirrors the Greek mystery cults. Death and darkness can be overcome.

    Laura represents something unique to her fans. A way in. A promise of apotheosis. A messiah.

    Just as populism was explored in the previous cycle so might it be again. Only this time not populist politics based on the elite leading the people and resulting in the horrors of the 20th century, but a folk movement.
    I really like this idea, and, in general regarding this series, how much thought it forces on us. It really is brilliant, and I can't wait to re-read once it's over.

  4. #154
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    One word: Prometheus

  5. #155
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryochan View Post
    One word: Prometheus
    Ooooh, I had completely forgotten about the Prometheus Gambit. It may sound like something Anake made up, but might end up being her undoing. As Proto-Persephone/Sister said, "A story will doom her/She thinks the story will save her."

    I'm so glad a special is coming out in two weeks, if only to forget the next arc doesn't start until December, lol.

  6. #156
    Incredible Member bobellis75's Avatar
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    I should probably start reading this book at some point.

  7. #157
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobellis75 View Post
    I should probably start reading this book at some point.
    To your credit, reading everything before/during the last arc may prove to be extremely satisfying. The normal-time wait creates expectation, but I suppose reading everything on one go may be (horrifyingly and sadly) delightful.

  8. #158
    Incredible Member bobellis75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeniSam View Post
    To your credit, reading everything before/during the last arc may prove to be extremely satisfying. The normal-time wait creates expectation, but I suppose reading everything on one go may be (horrifyingly and sadly) delightful.
    Just one of those books I haven't gotten around to...but really want to jump in. Think I saw the first trade at half price books the other day...maybe I'll jump in.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeniSam View Post
    Ooooh, I had completely forgotten about the Prometheus Gambit. It may sound like something Anake made up, but might end up being her undoing. As Proto-Persephone/Sister said, "A story will doom her/She thinks the story will save her."

    I'm so glad a special is coming out in two weeks, if only to forget the next arc doesn't start until December, lol.
    Prometheus stole fire from the gods. If it's NOT somehow related, I'd be very surprised. "Look for coincidences. But it won't feel like coincidences, it will feel like magic."

  10. #160
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryochan View Post
    Prometheus stole fire from the gods. If it's NOT somehow related, I'd be very surprised. "Look for coincidences. But it won't feel like coincidences, it will feel like magic."
    God, I love it when theories make sense (if only because I desperately want to have all pieces of the puzzle already, while not wanting it to end.)

    So, either Laura giving up the Persephone identity and divinity itself led to a sort of "empowered humanity", with humanity's inherent ability for progress (which is the entire point of both the Prometheus myth and of the Recurrence, in-universe) or maybe it's just a portion of Luci's power given to Laura. Something along the lines of the first theory sound more thematically relevant to the story, but Gillen does love his curve balls. I can't wait for what's next!

  11. #161
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Still digesting this issue, but I think it will be a favourite issue. Just stunning open storytelling. Gillen is opening his heart here in a very real and honest way. Lovely work.

  12. #162
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    To the Promethean idea. In a way that isn't saying much in this scenario. The pantheon have a Promethean role. They inspire culture.

    What I have always suspected is that more than this Persephone and her allies will inspire humanity to unleash their divinity.

    However, the story is partly about death. The Great Darkness in this issue is revealed to be death. Lucy's motivations and decisions are all about life, death and meaning. I suspect this book is less about the characters or humanity escaping death, but more related to the Persephone mystery cult, which seems to have been about how to understand death and escape it in life. To be free of its hold upon us, not to be free of its inevitability.

    Thematically this makes the reincarnating villain, running from death the perfect foil for Persephone.

  13. #163
    Amazing Member FeniSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Still digesting this issue, but I think it will be a favourite issue. Just stunning open storytelling. Gillen is opening his heart here in a very real and honest way. Lovely work.
    That is, I think, the main take-away from this series. Gillen is really digging into his own perceptions of culture, pop culture and storytelling in a superhero packaged metaphor, it's really brilliant.

    The hard return to a very human Laura was excellently done (and really helped sell the twist at the end).

    About your other post, I think Gillen hinted at the inherent divinity thing with that emotionally charged speech Beth barked at Laura. Everyone is so obssessed with being a god, they don't realize the limitation is self-imposed by believing divinity to be external. This is why I think the Prometheus theme is worth munching over: the Pantheon move culture forward because humanity's adoration assigns them that role thanks to OG Persephone's design, and Prometheus schtick was stealing from divinity to move humanity forward.

    Also, I interpreted the GD as eternal damnation in the dark, an eternity of the 90 years Minervananke spent trapped, very much alive, but unable to do anything.

  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeniSam View Post
    That is, I think, the main take-away from this series. Gillen is really digging into his own perceptions of culture, pop culture and storytelling in a superhero packaged metaphor, it's really brilliant.

    The hard return to a very human Laura was excellently done (and really helped sell the twist at the end).

    About your other post, I think Gillen hinted at the inherent divinity thing with that emotionally charged speech Beth barked at Laura. Everyone is so obssessed with being a god, they don't realize the limitation is self-imposed by believing divinity to be external. This is why I think the Prometheus theme is worth munching over: the Pantheon move culture forward because humanity's adoration assigns them that role thanks to OG Persephone's design, and Prometheus schtick was stealing from divinity to move humanity forward.

    Also, I interpreted the GD as eternal damnation in the dark, an eternity of the 90 years Minervananke spent trapped, very much alive, but unable to do anything.
    The real problem with the Prometheus thing, aside from it being a comic book cliche that has been done to death in everything since Moore's Promethia and Morrison's Animal Man, is that here there are no real gods to steal from as such. There is no direct analogy here. And we have a Prometheus anyway and she was punished.

    The Persephone / Kore duality has been explored far less. I can't think of an obvious example where it has been explored other than the simplistic Winter/Summer analogy (mythology for children). There is far more to Persephone as a mythical construct than this, and it is being touched on here. The self reflection of Kore as she regards her own image in the eyes of Hades come to abduct her is a true Greek mystery. She sees herself as the maiden that he sees - in that moment she becomes both herself as a woman and part of the bigger mystery that is Persephone/Demeter. The entirety of her mystery is tied up in that self realisation. It contains the secret of life and death and of coming of age.

    The Eleusinian Mysteries persisted for centuries. They were a touchstone of understanding the world for the vast number of people that underwent them.

    In this story Laura imagines herself as a member of the Pantheon before she becomes one. Then she meets Lucy. It is that moment of self realisation. The cusp of adulthood. The child projecting herself onto the adult world and the adult world in the form of Lucifer (the real Prometheus in our story) looking back and seeing the adult/deity. Laura is the way to enlightenment but first she must be innocent. We the audience must identify with her as those that underwent the mysteries identified with Kore/Persephone/Demeter and came to an understanding about themselves.

    Laura has learnt a vital lesson and has been broken down to the point of dissociation, but as part of a natural process of growth and understanding of who she is to become.

    Lucy is the Lightbringer. She is the snake in the garden of Eden bringing to an end the innocence of the fan girl. She is the bringer of fire to Laura. She is Prometheus.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-14-2018 at 05:43 PM.

  15. #165
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    Not going to lie, the way Gillen turned the arc title into a pun in this latest issue is probably my single favorite thing about WicDiv so far.

    So, the Final Lie. The Mothering Invention. The Fourth Rule. Ananke's sister (Have we ever established if she is herself Persephone? Or perhaps Demeter?) has built a way out into the rules. A puzzle that is waiting for one of the children to solve it. The question truly is, what is Laura? She has power. Her own power, not gifted by either Lucifer or Ananke. Power that only really emerges when she stops being "The fangirl" or Persephone, and truly decides to try and figure out who Laura Wilson is.

    Ananke's sisters says "she believes the story will doom her." Ananke thinks she understands the rules. She has interpreted them to her benefit, and filled in the rest to satisfy her own, self-serving needs. It seems clear that something not in the rules, something obvious and yet hidden, is the key to ending the cycle. And that Laura is on the cusp of whatever transformation or revelation lies at the heart of things. I look forward to seeing what the final arc has in store. This has been a fun ride, and all that's left is to stick the landing.
    Last edited by ZeroBG82; 09-15-2018 at 03:58 PM.

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