The Wicked + The Divine. Ongoing Spoilers, Theories, and Fan Feels.

[Grendel0606]

Initial stabs at some of the analogues:

Baal - Ezra Pound
Amaterasu - Clara Bow
Lucifer - Frank LLoyd Wright
The Norns - W.B. Yates
Set - Virginia Woolf
Woden - Fritz Lang
Dionysus - Pablo Picasso

Maybe Susanoo is Chaplin?

I cant get my head around Neptune. So much suggests a Captain Nemo figure but Verne would be too early. Hemingway is too late.

Susanoo is definitely Chaplin.
Neptune: Hemingway
Lucifer: Fitzgerald
The Quote at Verdandi's death hints at Orwell rather than Yeats
Also, I don'T think that Woden is Fritz Lang, as Lang was Jewish and despised the Nazis. As Ananke calls his Joesph, maybe he is actually meant tobe Goebbels?

[Anima]

Some have actually said that Susanoo might be based off of a combination of Charlie Chaplin, Buster Keaton and Sessue Hayakawa.

[JKtheMac]

Susanoo is definitely Chaplin.
Neptune: Hemingway
Lucifer: Fitzgerald
The Quote at Verdandi's death hints at Orwell rather than Yeats
Also, I don'T think that Woden is Fritz Lang, as Lang was Jewish and despised the Nazis. As Ananke calls his Joesph, maybe he is actually meant tobe Goebbels?

Always remember these are not the actual famous people, they are analogous to them. Fritz Lang also exists in this comic universe and so nobody is saying he is Woden. What is being said is that Woden is like Fritz Lang, only an analogue that is more charmed by totalitarian ideals than even Lang was. And Lang was indeed attracted to totalitarianism even if he wasn’t enamoured by Hitler when he came to power. This is a story about powerful individuals that are similar but not the same as their counterparts. For the story to work Gillen needs to reference Hitler in a contemporary manner. He was a topic of much discussion in elite circles. Gillen chose this character based loosely on the man that made Metropolis which to some is a love letter to totalitarian ideals and influenced by the same people as National Socialism was, to do that.

The fact that this has caused some controversy says more about the people complaining than this story.

There are very clear cues that Lucifer is an architect and the words he uses when referring to the building are words used to describe Wright and his vision, so there seems to be a deliberate nod to him.

The words used with the death pictures may be misleading. For example one of the other Norns may be Orwell. The reason it is probably Yates is because of his quote that echoes The Second Coming, one of the most famous poems it this era. But the reference to ruling pigs equally suggests Orwell. There are three of them anyway, they could be representing an entire group of writers. We have Huxley references too from Skuld.

I really don’t understand why Hemingway would be referenced in a book set too early, but maybe Gillen just wanted him in and figured he is alive in this period. He certainly wasn’t famous at this point. He had barely begun publishing his stories. Has anyone considered he could be Kipling?

Thinking about it Kipling is directly responsible for the style of world building employed in this story. Indirect Exposition. Need to check for references now.

[JKtheMac]

Some have actually said that Susanoo might be based off of a combination of Charlie Chaplin, Buster Keaton and Sessue Hayakawa.

This is entirely possible, but the portrait in the front of the book is clearly based on a famous Chaplin photograph from that era.

[JKtheMac]

January Diamond figures reiterate how successful this series is in TPB. With second place in both units and dollars.

The dollar trade market is mostly dominated by premium hard covers that will presumably sit on store shelves for a while, or are being ordered directly by collectors wanting hardbacks on their own shelves. I imagine the paperback trades are dominated by pull lists from people trade waiting.

The only other standard trades in the top ten for dollars are Legend of Korra, Descender, and Kill or be Killed.

For context Saga v8 is outside this particular top 10 but is 6 in unit sales.

[Jinjonator]

Welly well well, we finally got a glimpse of The Beginning.

Also, what was up with the ending? I think I got what was revealed but... I'm not sure I fully understand it?

From the looks of it, it looks like Minerva killed Luci? I think that was the takeaway? But why? Like why not Ananke like it originally seemed? What is the meaning? (Or have I misinterpreted the panels? I am foolish sometimes) Thoughts?

[JKtheMac]

Welly well well, we finally got a glimpse of The Beginning.

Also, what was up with the ending? I think I got what was revealed but... I'm not sure I fully understand it?

From the looks of it, it looks like Minerva killed Luci? I think that was the takeaway? But why? Like why not Ananke like it originally seemed? What is the meaning? (Or have I misinterpreted the panels? I am foolish sometimes) Thoughts?

Woden has worked out that there is a connection between Minerva and Ananke. He may even have jumped to the conclusion that Ananke and Minerva are one and the same recurring deity.

Minerva did act rashly here out of desperation and necessity (no pun intended). The sudden return of head lopping villainy probably made him suspicious. He was surprised that Minerva left her glasses behind, so he isn't suspicious of her when he starts to look through the footage.

[JKtheMac]

As usual the reveals here don't really reveal an awful lot. All we know is that six thousand years ago Ananke began to enact a terrible plan to renew herself and thereby gain immortality. What we don't know is why she did this. It seems from the perspective we are given that she is doing this out of selfishness but maybe she isn't. Maybe she is finding a solution to a wider problem. I doubt it is coincidental that she is the goddess of necessity.

I like that we get a 1.2.3.4. here. It suggests and underlying structure.

So Persephone is here as mother, and the old version we see had children. Is Lucy pregnant?

I wonder if Ananke has deliberately been picking the least effective people she can for the role of Persephone. By picking a fangirl of the pantheon she probably wildly underestimated Laura and fan culture. Also, in a way Lucy picked her. Did she know something? "Aren't you the oh-so special one..."

[seismic-2]

I'm even more confused now about Woden's machine that (supposedly) doesn't do anything. We now know that the previous Woden (who also wasn't really a god but just a functionary who stored hidden treasures in a "tabernacle") constructed a machine to trap the era's zeitgeist, or so he thought, but it actually trapped something else instead. What was it that the machine trapped, and what did Ananke do with whatever it was? Is the present machine a device to trap the same thing? If so, why did Ananke tie Minerva to it?

Also, in the current issue we see the origin of (but don't yet understand) Ananke's need for four skulls. She and her sister would each get four skulls, but who is this third entity who gets the other three? Does this have anything to do with the Great Darkness, or is there yet another force at work here?

[JKtheMac]

I'm even more confused now about Woden's machine that (supposedly) doesn't do anything. We now know that the previous Woden (who also wasn't really a god but just a functionary who stored hidden treasures in a "tabernacle") constructed a machine to trap the era's zeitgeist, or so he thought, but it actually trapped something else instead. What was it that the machine trapped, and what did Ananke do with whatever it was? Is the present machine a device to trap the same thing? If so, why did Ananke tie Minerva to it?

Also, in the current issue we see the origin of (but don't yet understand) Ananke's need for four skulls. She and her sister would each get four skulls, but who is this third entity who gets the other three? Does this have anything to do with the Great Darkness, or is there yet another force at work here?

The spirit of the times thing was a part of the premise of the previous era. Gillen was commentating upon the modernist ideal, and the way it degenerated. He was drawing parallels between the very elitist aristocratic perspective and the populist, democratic perspective. Many saw art as somehow pure and not for ‘the great unwashed’. The implication from the way the book finishes, is that they managed to exacerbate the problems and led us into the populist politics that gave rise to fascism and the Nazis. It all backfired on them. Elitism gone wrong. Or perhaps a condemnation of elitism.

As to skulls I have no idea what you mean. There is clearly a ritual needing four alive heads, I don’t see any evidence that skulls are required. When we first saw Ananke killing people we were given to believe she was doing it to somehow stay alive. Now it seems she doesn’t need to so the heads are possibly for something else.

[JKtheMac]

Well that was a new one on me. I have laughed out loud at a comic, I have shed a tear over a comic, never before have I cackled at a comic. #35 is such deliciously evil fun generally, but the Baal reveal was so great. And it kept on giving when he discarded his amulet.

[CRaymond]

The relationship between Minerva and Ananke is what I’ve poured over since Wednesday. The pathway is so damn unclear.

Who are the Franks?

[Microwave]

I am really not sure that is true. Some division was created, and used by Ananke for her own ends, and there is a hangover from those times now. But the Underworld as a concept means different things to different cultures, and I suspect Gillen is being looser and more playful. Certainly he used the Persephone story in a playful way.

I see Baal as being used to emphasise masculinity and patriarchy, and Woden in his aspect as magician. Neither are acting particularly like the typical distant sky god, overseeing creation.

I have to disagree with the bolded, I think Woden is more of a representative of the patriarchy than Baal could ever be.

Can we get some examples of why you think this?

[JKtheMac]

I have to disagree with the bolded, I think Woden is more of a representative of the patriarchy than Baal could ever be.

Can we get some examples of why you think this?

Well let’s take right now, when he is suddenly the devourer of children and the fire god who was only held back by his amulet. Seems quite the macho deity to me. How much more patriarchal can you get? That is literally biblical stuff: Jeremiah 19:5

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal

Consider Zeus in the devouring of his son, or the ritual set up by Prometheus to appease the gods. The fire sacrifice ritual is the very essence of patriarchy. Progeny are rivals. Fire and meat is the key to the happy relationship with Zeus the Father.

Even Christ on the cross is a sacrifice to the father to ritualise the relationship of god and man. Father forgive them...

[Factor]

To be honest, I'm completely lost with this series. I'll keep on reading, but it's getting pretty confusing.
Do we know what happened to Ananke's sister? Is she Minerva somehow?