Great article on why Zack Snyder Loves Superman.

[dishpan]

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thank you for your posts, you really articulate your points well and i am sharing the link with some of my friends who disagree with us.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

*EXCELLENT* article, thanks for sharing it. It falls in line 100 % with what I've been saying in other threads about Superman's portrayal in DOJ.

[The World]

I don't see how Snyder got caught up in Superman's iconography. One of the most consistent complaints levied at the movies are that they try way to hard to ground the character, and frankly if getting his ass whooped by Doomsday and Batman are now considered iconic Superman qualities it might be time to throw in the towel for the franchise.

[DiceRoll]

I don't see how Snyder got caught up in Superman's iconography. One of the most consistent complaints levied at the movies are that they try way to hard to ground the character, and frankly if getting his ass whooped by Doomsday and Batman are now considered iconic Superman qualities it might be time to throw in the towel for the franchise.

To be fair, the main thing people know about Doomsday is that he kills Superman. It's like Bane breaking Batman's back, it's just gonna happen.

As for Batman...it's more an iconic quality of Batman that he can hang with and in some cases even knock around the likes of Superman. As far as the general public knows, between the World's Finest animated, Justice League: Doom/Tower of Babel, Hush, Dark Knight Returns, the DCAU, etc...it's pretty much established that Superman (and pretty much everyone) plays second fiddle to Batman.

[misslane]

I don't see how Snyder got caught up in Superman's iconography. One of the most consistent complaints levied at the movies are that they try way to hard to ground the character, and frankly if getting his ass whooped by Doomsday and Batman are now considered iconic Superman qualities it might be time to throw in the towel for the franchise.

Batman had an advantage over Superman because he had kryptonite. Superman didn't even know about kryptonite in this universe, so it was the first time he experienced its effects. Just as a reference point, Lex Luthor and Metallo have also whooped Superman using kryptonite. If Batman had beaten Superman without kryptonite, then I'd be concerned, but kryptonite has been Superman's weakness for a long time now, and I am not even remotely troubled by the fact that Snyder's Superman struggled to come out on top in a fight the first time he came into contact with the radioactive rock. It wasn't as if Superman was going full force either. He was trying to get through to Bruce to help with Martha, and he was very reluctant to have to use fatal force. Each of the members of the Trinity were getting their asses whooped by Doomsday. Superman just did the heroic thing to sacrifice himself to save them and Earth from the monster. Plus, it's pretty obvious Superman will be coming back, so Doomsday hardly "won" by any measure.

[DiceRoll]

Batman had an advantage over Superman because he had kryptonite. Superman didn't even know about kryptonite in this universe, so it was the first time he experienced its effects. Just as a reference point, Lex Luthor and Metallo have also whooped Superman using kryptonite. If Batman had beaten Superman without kryptonite, then I'd be concerned, but kryptonite has been Superman's weakness for a long time now, and I am not even remotely troubled by the fact that Snyder's Superman struggled to come out on top in a fight the first time he came into contact with the radioactive rock. It wasn't as if Superman was going full force either. He was trying to get through to Bruce to help with Martha, and he was very reluctant to have to use fatal force. Each of the members of the Trinity were getting their asses whooped by Doomsday. Superman just did the heroic thing to sacrifice himself to save them and Earth from the monster. Plus, it's pretty obvious Superman will be coming back, so Doomsday hardly "won" by any measure.

That's like saying Bane didn't beat Batman because it was obvious that he was gonna come back for Round 2. Meta-logic like that only acts as a disservice to the film and takes you out of the world/experience.
Furthermore, that line of thought devalues Clark's sacrifice. I mean, it's not like he knew he'd come back.

[vasir12]

That's like saying Bane didn't beat Batman because it was obvious that he was gonna come back for Round 2. Meta-logic like that only acts as a disservice to the film and takes you out of the world/experience.
Furthermore, that line of thought devalues Clark's sacrifice. I mean, it's not like he knew he'd come back.

Doomsday died. Superman won, in that, it couldn't hurt anyone else anymore.

[SiegePerilous02]

From the sounds of it, the UC will make any positive feelings Snyder has towards the character much more apparent. If anything, it sounds like Clark's motivations are considerably more fleshed out and he's meant to be much more sympathetic than Bruce. I even thought that was still very much evident in the theatrical cut, but it's reassuring that it will be more so here.

If anything, Snyder may not be responsible here. It seems butchering the film and making it more Batman centric was the studio's idea, not Zack's.

That's like saying Bane didn't beat Batman because it was obvious that he was gonna come back for Round 2. Meta-logic like that only acts as a disservice to the film and takes you out of the world/experience.
Furthermore, that line of thought devalues Clark's sacrifice. I mean, it's not like he knew he'd come back.

Clark accomplished his goal in killing Doomsday and saving the world even though he died in the process. Just like the actual comics. If the story execution is flawed in the film, it's because the source material is also flawed.

[misslane]

That's like saying Bane didn't beat Batman because it was obvious that he was gonna come back for Round 2. Meta-logic like that only acts as a disservice to the film and takes you out of the world/experience.
Furthermore, that line of thought devalues Clark's sacrifice. I mean, it's not like he knew he'd come back.

I didn't say anything about Superman knowing he'd be okay. I just said that he would be. He will live and the monster won't. Lex's goal was to kill Superman. He failed. Not only did Superman defeat Doomsday, his temporary death and willing sacrifice also inspired people and he will even live again. Those results are hardly ones I'd consider as a loss for Superman. It's nothing that any Superman fan, I feel, should look at and feel as if Snyder was disrespecting the character by having him die to save others.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

From the sounds of it, the UC will make any positive feelings Snyder has towards the character much more apparent. If anything, it sounds like Clark's motivations are considerably more fleshed out and he's meant to be much more sympathetic than Bruce. I even thought that was still very much evident in the theatrical cut, but it's reassuring that it will be more so here.

If anything, Snyder may not be responsible here. It seems butchering the film and making it more Batman centric was the studio's idea, not Zack's.

This, I think this too. It also explains how he still has a job directed JL, undoubtedly WB must be feelin' guilty man has been through hell and back like even if you hated the film you gotta feel sorry for him when all the interviewers were asking him about the negative reviews & he looked deflated as hell, like all the pre review interviews you can see how super passionate the guy is and why no-one who has worked with him has had anything bad to say (just look at the BvS b roll footage) & why people like Ben Affleck (who has his own directing career too don't forget) signs up as an EP to help ZS out.

Also there was a rumour going around 4 chan (I know I know) that ZS and WB settled on making a 3hr epic to further help differentiate from MARVEL until WB chickened out last minute & ZS being ZS couldn't argue against them so settled with having the UC later on home video.

[SiegePerilous02]

This, I think this too. It also explains how he still has a job directed JL, undoubtedly WB must be feelin' guilty man has been through hell and back like even if you hated the film you gotta feel sorry for him when all the interviewers were asking him about the negative reviews & he looked deflated as hell, like all the pre review interviews you can see how super passionate the guy is and why no-one who has worked with him has had anything bad to say (just look at the BvS b roll footage) & why people like Ben Affleck (who has his own directing career too don't forget) signs up as an EP to help ZS out.

Also there was a rumour going around 4 chan (I know I know) that ZS and WB settled on making a 3hr epic to further help differentiate from MARVEL until WB chickened out last minute & ZS being ZS couldn't argue against them so settled with having the UC later on home video.

I overall liked the TC even if it was a mess and a disappointment, and I've been pretty vocal about my thinking that Snyder should probably leave to avoid further fallout. I appreciated his ambitions, but I was thinking that his ambitions mostly outweighed his skills. But now I'm really not so sure. Most of the objective criticisms like editing and plotting, and giving one of the titular characters more scenes, seems to be dealt with and everything sounds like it flows much better.

Is JL in danger with Snyder involved, or will WB not chicken out again and just let him release his preferred cut? It's already been promised by Terrio to be lighter (the DCEU isn't even that dark compared to a lot of the actual comics these character have been featured in...), so that will solve that problem at least.

I agree that a lot of the comments directed at Snyder aren't deserved, even if you hated the movie. That Mark Millar one about the gorilla was just...creepy.