Jean-Paul Valley: My Man, Azrael is Back! - Appreciation Thread

[PyroTwilight]

Is there any specific arc or trade collection to read about the current iteration of Azrael/Jean Paul? If it weren't for this thread I wouldn't even know he was back since I don't tend to read most Batbooks. It sounds like he's been mostly minor bits so far?

I always loved the minor dynamic he had with Bruce at least in his own book. With him being the sort of brother to Bruce to set him apart from the other family who tend to be Bruce's "kids".

[Assam]

Is there any specific arc or trade collection to read about the current iteration of Azrael/Jean Paul? If it weren't for this thread I wouldn't even know he was back since I don't tend to read most Batbooks. It sounds like he's been mostly minor bits so far?

I always loved the minor dynamic he had with Bruce at least in his own book. With him being the sort of brother to Bruce to set him apart from the other family who tend to be Bruce's "kids".

He first returned in the weekly series, Batman and Robin: Eternal. It has a bunch of really good moments scattered throughout, including the return of Cassandra Cain, some of the only moments of Steph acting like Steph since the reboot, and a kinda fun buddy cop relationship between Tim and Jason.

However, on the Azrael front, he got kinda shafted. Pretty much his entire arc from the first 40 issues of his book got crammed into the mini-series, and in terms of his showings, he failed to take down Jason and Tim.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend Eternal.

BUT, he's currently part of the main team in Detective Comics. He joined in Vol2. The Victim Syndicate, but the only major focus on him has been in a short story about him and Batwing within 'Tec #950.

It's not great, but if you want to see Jean-Paul being Jaun-Paul, go read that.

[PyroTwilight]

He first returned in the weekly series, Batman and Robin: Eternal. It has a bunch of really good moments scattered throughout, including the return of Cassandra Cain, some of the only moments of Steph acting like Steph since the reboot, and a kinda fun buddy cop relationship between Tim and Jason.

However, on the Azrael front, he got kinda shafted. Pretty much his entire arc from the first 40 issues of his book got crammed into the mini-series, and in terms of his showings, he failed to take down Jason and Tim.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend Eternal.

BUT, he's currently part of the main team in Detective Comics. He joined in Vol2. The Victim Syndicate, but the only major focus on him has been in a short story about him and Batwing within 'Tec #950.

It's not great, but if you want to see Jean-Paul being Jaun-Paul, go read that.

Huh. That's a bit dissapointing. I always placed him on a rotating up and down of him and Cassandra being roughly the same hard to takedownness scale IE in a single person battle they could each potentially take the other down and no one save maybe Bruce could beat each in a no holds barred battle (with great difficulty). But I suppose being beaten by Tim and Jason isn't a particularly big failure.

I'll take a look. That Batwing is still Luke Fox, right?

[Assam]

Huh. That's a bit dissapointing. I always placed him on a rotating up and down of him and Cassandra being roughly the same hard to takedownness scale IE in a single person battle they could each potentially take the other down and no one save maybe Bruce could beat each in a no holds barred battle (with great difficulty). But I suppose being beaten by Tim and Jason isn't a particularly big failure.

I'll take a look. That Batwing is still Luke Fox, right?

Oh yeah, Cass, Bruce, and Jean-Paul have definitely proved to be the top 3 fighters in the family. I'd never want to see it, since their old friendship was so beautiful, but a fight between current Cass and Jean-Paul would be absolutely brutal. (Especially if it's Rebirth Cass, who doesn't have the meta-feats of her Post-Crisis self)

And yeah, Luke Fox is still Batwing, although Tynion has pretty much revamped his personality to make him less, well, boring.

[PyroTwilight]

Bought said issue yesterday. Detective Comics #950 was fun.

Huh. So what I heard about Cassandra's codename being Orphan now was true.

Loved the Azrael and Batwing story. Though the description of Azrael's suit was a bit surprising. It's some kind of sensory enhancing suit? Sounds like a low level Ironman-y upgrade, with the twin brains thing IE Jean's and the suits makes me think of Midnighter almost. Able to predict battle conclusions and plan out attacks on the fly for precise and ehanced destruction.

[darkseidpwns]

Bought said issue yesterday. Detective Comics #950 was fun.

Huh. So what I heard about Cassandra's codename being Orphan now was true.

Loved the Azrael and Batwing story. Though the description of Azrael's suit was a bit surprising. It's some kind of sensory enhancing suit? Sounds like a low level Ironman-y upgrade, with the twin brains thing IE Jean's and the suits makes me think of Midnighter almost. Able to predict battle conclusions and plan out attacks on the fly for precise and ehanced destruction.

Midnighter lite suit, beats Bane, Tim and Jason, destroys a city... gets fodderized by a ninja. The Michael Lane incarnation also had a suit of sorrows that gave him the abilities of all the users of the suit. It was mystical and frankly just all around better concept than Midnighter lite.

[Assam]

Midnighter lite suit, beats Bane, Tim and Jason, destroys a city... gets fodderized by a ninja. The Michael Lane incarnation also had a suit of sorrows that gave him the abilities of all the users of the suit. It was mystical and frankly just all around better concept than Midnighter lite.

Are you a fan of Michael Lane? While I'll admit his suit and abilities are cool, I could never get behind him as a character.

[Arnoldoaad]

Bought said issue yesterday. Detective Comics #950 was fun.

Huh. So what I heard about Cassandra's codename being Orphan now was true.

Loved the Azrael and Batwing story. Though the description of Azrael's suit was a bit surprising. It's some kind of sensory enhancing suit? Sounds like a low level Ironman-y upgrade, with the twin brains thing IE Jean's and the suits makes me think of Midnighter almost. Able to predict battle conclusions and plan out attacks on the fly for precise and ehanced destruction.

Midnighter lite suit, beats Bane, Tim and Jason, destroys a city... gets fodderized by a ninja. The Michael Lane incarnation also had a suit of sorrows that gave him the abilities of all the users of the suit. It was mystical and frankly just all around better concept than Midnighter lite.

Just to enter into the discussion I think the neww suit is awesome.
It definitely makes more sense than the first incarnation which was basically "he gets brainwash and when he puts into X suit he is superdope" at least now there is a physical connection that makes him be better by using the suit ratter than just be a plotdevice.
it also gives him a deeper religious aspect, as kind of he uses a machine to draw the "voice of god" I think its pretty strong conceptually.
in addition to that it makes him into literally TECHNO-MONK and those are awesome, just look at any Dennis Rodman movie for confirmation

Finally I also think the comparison with Michael Lane is extremely unfair because also conceptually they are pretty different characters(by this i mean the original Azrael not the new one). This now make them perfectly opposite and leaves space to how in cannon both sects of the Saint Dumas Order were form.
Think this: The order is form but then a scism happens, one side evolves into high tech while the other one keeps its take on magic and uses the suit of sorrows. This also opens an space for Michael Lane to eventually be back and then maybe rivals JPV.

[PyroTwilight]

Hmm, I actually prefer the original way Azrael's "powers" worked. I loved the idea of a religious cult trying to make a perfect religious weapon in the form of a man. Though the current version works well enough too.

And I was always amused at "The System" which would kind of crank up over a fight and make him more and more dangerous to whoever he's fighting. Something bordering a berserk fighting form essentially.


I remember trying to follow Lane a bit early on hoping he'd have more of a real tie to Jean-Paul but it wasn't particularly there so I wasn't ever really able to care about the guy.

[Assam]

I may or may not continue reading 'Tec, or any DC comics, depending on how the current arc ends.

However, should I keep reading, I am SUPER excited Jean-Paul's focus arc in 'Tec.

What are my fellow Azrael fans hoping to see in this?

[SicariiDC]

I may or may not continue reading 'Tec, or any DC comics, depending on how the current arc ends.

However, should I keep reading, I am SUPER excited Jean-Paul's focus arc in 'Tec.

What are my fellow Azrael fans hoping to see in this?

The System

[SicariiDC]

Or is the Rebirth System what's going on now in his suit? Is that Tynion trying to modernize it a technological way?

If so, that's cool I dig it but I liked the original stuff better but I get it. Him hallucinating Ancient Knights and stuff was fucking awesome tho

[millernumber1]

I am hoping for more theology.

[Mister BoMan]

I love seeing JVP!

[oasis1313]

I'd like to see JPV get his own title again. He's cool.