Captain America VS Batman both nude

[master of read]

in that case, can you prove that gadgets WERE involved?

[Pendaran]

So, Batman being exploded. Batman actually has a mild history with being exploded, and while he will sometimes have the decency to at least be hurt about it, then again, this sort of thing will happen:

http://s33.postimg.org/69279ub9r/Det...Empire_031.jpg

This is the building being exploded, as far as the explosion Batman is at ground zero of.

http://s33.postimg.org/8zq8f09zj/Det...Empire_026.jpg

This is the result:

http://s33.postimg.org/b577nnq8f/Det...Empire_002.jpg

http://postimg.org/image/66jp94mff/

(I'd have went with the grenade thing but one, this is sort of my favourite to start with for utter dumb, because while you might go "well, the costume!", unless there's some later comic showing that Batman turtled into it, which, no time and I'm not aware of otherwise existing, the lower half of his face should be completely gone. Also, he is as you see in the later scan, regardless just straight emerging and moving through flame. Also good cripes his costume would be ridiculous and a lot of non naked Bats fights would need a serious re-evaluation. It has nomex as far as fire and can be shot up, sure. But that? Yes, I know, in the new 52 he specifically wears borderline power armor. This is well before that.)

[Pendaran]

Sure, it's simply how bullet time is judged. The scene has to clearly show the character reacting only after the bullet is fired. The scan you posted doesn't do that. And he didn't punch it, it glanced off his glove. As for the "did it without gadgets" thing, the page only shows his cape near their guns, not his hands. So it's kind of hard to prove there were no gadgets involved.

I have a magic rock that keeps tigers away. Would you like to buy it? There are no tigers around me at the moment. Therefore it works.

It's easy to prove there were no gadgets involved. There's no hint of gadgets being involved, there's nothing depicting gadgets being involved. The best that could be said is that Batman wears a bulletproof costume. Like Shang Chi using his bracelets to block bullets, but in this case better (part of the non validity) he actually had to punch the bullet.

Your alternative is to claim that since there is no narrative box saying "no gadgets involved", you can ignore what the scan clearly depicts.

In the gang thing, what possible gadget could Batman have used to pull that off that would allow him to disarm them all basically in a moment, and leave before they realized it happen, them still in the same positioning down to their hands? When has Batman ever used anything like that? How would gadgets have let him do that? You are at this point just straight up ignoring the contents of posted scans.

[Pendaran]

You know what, let me set that aside for a minute. Mod ruling on Cap, you at least acknowledge that that exists?

[The Watcher]

Mod Ruling: Just want to not that all the various recent scans of both Batman and Captain America committing ludicrous outlier feats such as super speed gun snatching, bullet punching and grenade-tanking are equally legitimate (as in they're showing what they're showing) and equally invalid for Rumbles purposes (as in they are extreme outliers that deviate greatly from the capacity of the characters established from preponderance of feats seen throughout their existence).

[rhyvurg]

in that case, can you prove that gadgets WERE involved?

I don't actually have to. Pen is making the claim Bats can do it with his bare hands, so the burden of proof lies with him. I don't have to prove a thing, I only have to create reasonable doubt about his evidence and I still win.

So, Batman being exploded. Batman actually has a mild history with being exploded, and while he will sometimes have the decency to at least be hurt about it, then again, this sort of thing will happen:

http://s33.postimg.org/69279ub9r/Det...Empire_031.jpg

This is the building being exploded, as far as the explosion Batman is at ground zero of.

http://s33.postimg.org/8zq8f09zj/Det...Empire_026.jpg

This is the result:

http://s33.postimg.org/b577nnq8f/Det...Empire_002.jpg

http://postimg.org/image/66jp94mff/

(I'd have went with the grenade thing but one, this is sort of my favourite to start with for utter dumb, because while you might go "well, the costume!", unless there's some later comic showing that Batman turtled into it, which, no time and I'm not aware of otherwise existing, the lower half of his face should be completely gone. Also, he is as you see in the later scan, regardless just straight emerging and moving through flame. Also good cripes his costume would be ridiculous and a lot of non naked Bats fights would need a serious re-evaluation. It has nomex as far as fire and can be shot up, sure. But that? Yes, I know, in the new 52 he specifically wears borderline power armor. This is well before that.)

I'm not going to say that's not impressive, but there's nothing that shows how close he was to the bomb, and he's also in costume, you can't prove he tanked it with his bare skin like Cap did. Again, Cap was literally wearing the bomb against his skin, his armor was providing zero protection because the armor itself was the bomb. And the fact he's wearing the remains of his costume proves he still had the armor on when it exploded. Unless you can show me a bare chested Batman with a grenade taped to his chest, and the only result is a slightly bloody nose, then Cap has durability feats leagues above Bats himself, and in a no-gear no-armor fight there's literally nothing Bats can do to make Steve even feel it.

[Guy1]

Giving this a temp close to give this a look over.

[Guy1]

Just chiming in to say that neither Batman nor Captain America are considered bullet timers here on CBR.

Mod Ruling: Just want to not that all the various recent scans of both Batman and Captain America committing ludicrous outlier feats such as super speed gun snatching, bullet punching and grenade-tanking are equally legitimate (as in they're showing what they're showing) and equally invalid for Rumbles purposes (as in they are extreme outliers that deviate greatly from the capacity of the characters established from preponderance of feats seen throughout their existence).

So yeah, we'll be dropping the super speed/'bullet timing' argument and debating the feats around the outlier feats as commanded by both a Moderator AND A Super Moderator here. We debate by the high end consistent feats that make sense for the characters.

Captain America's ruling of being a Peak Human still stands.

Captain America - 2010

Captain America of the standard Marvel universe (616) is peak human as far as Rumbles is concerned. This puts him below Class 1 and above opponents in strength, slower than a bullet timer, etc. In fact, he (along with Batman) is pretty much the posterboy for Peak Human aside from his endurance.

Instances where he has operated above that level have almost universally either SMvsFL, PIS or power-ups over a lot of debates so please take into account when discussing this ruling that barring him receiving a (acknowledged in-story) power up after the above date, it will be very difficult to overcome the decades of evidence that he has of being consistently peak human.

Now.

I will be opening the thread back up.
You may resume debating but do so by board rules with the characters consistent high end feats without outliers.

[Guy1]

Now if somebody could explain to me why the heck these guys needed to be naked for the fight we'll be back on track.

[rhyvurg]

Okay then.

Cap still has greater feats of stamina, more experience, and while Batman is a great fighter, Cap created his own fighting form that lets him strike with superhuman force, without superhuman strength. His mind works fast enough to calculate shield bounces on the fly, to the point he can flick on a lighter with it http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...de135.jpg.html

He can calculate angles fast enough to triple-ricochet a bullet to go wherever he wants it.
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...2ded7.png.html
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...239e9.png.html
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...1f8d4.png.html

He almost instantly mastered zero-g combat, to the point he was better at it than people who had trained for decades.
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...21507.jpg.html

Here is he laying out Beast, who actually is superhuman.
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...ee9e8.jpg.html

Same with USAgent.
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...e0947.jpg.html

In summary, while they both can take down people with superhuman resistance to damage, Cap is the one who does it with his bare hands, Bats almost always relies on his gear. Unless someone can find Batman fighting Killer Croc or a juiced-up Bane with no gear or armor at all, Cap easily wins.

[The Dork Knight]

Batman accuracy with batarangs. One example
http://imgur.com/a/BZnUn


Example two. Using coins
http://imgur.com/8qVzYjC

I hate to even talk about the zero G equivalent example, considering that involved taking on and stalemating the heh...."superhuman" Karate Kid

I can easily find scans of him beating various superhumans right up to the class 100 range, but I dunno what it will achieve other than you throwing them out , even when he uses just hth, with "he was in armour" ....like Cap isnt

[The Dork Knight]

Batman vs KK "anti-grav" martial arts

http://imgur.com/a/4iL0D

[Pendaran]

Cap still has greater feats of stamina, more experience, and while Batman is a great fighter, Cap created his own fighting form that lets him strike with superhuman force, without superhuman strength. His mind works fast enough to calculate shield bounces on the fly, to the point he can flick on a lighter with it http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...de135.jpg.html

So, basically your argument is that Cap is superhuman despite the mod ruling about where he performs as superhuman. And your proof for this is a scan where he extinguishes a lighter with his shield.

Same with USAgent.
http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/ra...e0947.jpg.html

In Captain America 350, Cap required an extended fight with a US Agent/John Walker who had, before their fight, been shot, beaten on, bloodied, was on his hands and knees gasping for air when Cap came up on him, and during the fight at one point ducked Walker into electrocuting himself as part of being able to take him out.

Was Steve jobbing? Because you just argued that with a one hand grip Cap can completely overpower and take out a man who he previously needed all that to take out.

[rhyvurg]

Batman accuracy with batarangs. One example
http://imgur.com/a/BZnUn


Example two. Using coins
http://imgur.com/8qVzYjC

I hate to even talk about the zero G equivalent example, considering that involved taking on and stalemating the heh...."superhuman" Karate Kid

I can easily find scans of him beating various superhumans right up to the class 100 range, but I dunno what it will achieve other than you throwing them out , even when he uses just hth, with "he was in armour" ....like Cap isnt

Batman vs KK "anti-grav" martial arts

http://imgur.com/a/4iL0D

Batman wouldn't have anything to throw, my examples were for Cap's mental speed. And there's a difference between zero-g, and flight.

[rhyvurg]

So, basically your argument is that Cap is superhuman despite the mod ruling about where he performs as superhuman.

Not at all, I'm saying that he can perform superhuman feats, without superhuman power.