How would YOU merge the Supermen?

[Sacred Knight]

I like everything Ascended and mos1979 said with the two changes: I'd have Martha the parent to die when Clark is young. Switch it up a little. I prefer them both gone but as a compromise. She becomes ill sometime after high school (with the car accident scenario being removed in a huge Vyndktvx storyline which serves as the rationalization of the changes), and passes when Clark is in college. After this Clark takes a sabbatical from school, and does lots of travelling (he gets that Birthright/American Alien world experience here). Play on a somewhat strained relationship with Jonathan as they both try to deal with losing her, but they eventually patch things up completely early into his career as Superman and become close as ever.

Secondly, Clark and Lois would not be married. I'd establish a firm past with a romantic element, say they've been intimate at least once and although neither regrets it, they've still decided to hold off on anything serious for a variety of reasons. Jon doesn't exist at all. Conner Kent is Superboy and he is of course the Karl Kessel version. I like the kid but he's a bigger problem than he's worth continuity-wise. Its not worth it yet. Save an idea like that in your back pocket in case you decide to marry off Lois and Clark again in the future and introduce a son organically. Again its no problem with Jon inherently. There's nothing wrong with him. Its all about how he was introduced and how he exists currently. It was rushed, hackneyed, and requires huge accommodations to the crafting of an overall mythos for Superman that just is so not earned at this point.

[Ascended]

I like everything Ascended said with the two changes: I'd have Martha the parent to die when Clark is young. Switch it up a little. I prefer them both gone but as a compromise. She becomes ill sometime after high school (with the car accident scenario being removed in a huge Vyndktvx storyline which serves as the rationalization of the changes), and passes when Clark is in college. After this Clark takes a sabbatical from school, and does lots of travelling (he gets that Birthright/American Alien world experience here). Play on a somewhat strained relationship with Jonathan as they both try to deal with losing her, but they eventually patch things up completely early into his career as Superman and become close as ever.

Thought about that, actually. In the end, I decided that Clark has enough guys in his life and the mythos is a little light on quality female supporting cast members. Plus, I want to see Perry White serve as the "older source of wisdom" cast member, and he can't really do that if Johnathan is alive and in that role, and splitting it between them doesnt really work since Clark can reach Smallville in a matter of minutes.

But it would be an interesting change. I mean, personally, I want them both dead as disco, but for a merger of post-Crisis and.....any other version, really, you gotta keep one of them sucking air.

So essentially what I would do, just worded better then?

Great post as usual.

Well, we're obviously the best choices for co-editors ever, so its a good thing we're on the same page.

And thanks, of course!

[Jim Kelly]

Both Kents dead. I don't like to see lonely Martha, living the rest of her days without Jonathan. So either they should both be alive or they should both be dead. Killing off one of them always seemed a compromise that satisfies no one.

My solution to how you keep the Kents alive, but still have them dead is that they're in a virtual reality (or some other kind of construct) in the Fortress of Solitude--thanks to Kryptonian tech. Either Superman does that himself--feeling the need to talk with his parents, so he creates this simulation to allow that; or the Fortress itself creates this for him, anticipating that he would need that.

[manofsteel1979]

Both Kents dead. I don't like to see lonely Martha, living the rest of her days without Jonathan. So either they should both be alive or they should both be dead. Killing off one of them always seemed a compromise that satisfies no one.

My solution to how you keep the Kents alive, but still have them dead is that they're in a virtual reality (or some other kind of construct) in the Fortress of Solitude--thanks to Kryptonian tech. Either Superman does that himself--feeling the need to talk with his parents, so he creates this simulation to allow that; or the Fortress itself creates this for him, anticipating that he would need that.

An interesting Idea,but I've never really liked the idea of "ghost A.I. JOR-EL," really. Some messages or things pre-recorded is fine,but a "living" hologram constantly interacting with Clark in the present day is mostly a relic of the Donnerverse, and honestly I could do without. To do that with the Kents too I would not like.

[Sacred Knight]

Well, we're obviously the best choices for co-editors ever, so its a good thing we're on the same page.

And thanks, of course!

Just put me on one of the titles. I can't draw but I can write a little bit. And yeah I might do a WW guest-starring story every now and again and have them smooch just to cheese you two off, but our sensibilities are otherwise similar.

[manofsteel1979]

Just put me on one of the titles. I can't draw but I can write a little bit. And yeah I might do a WW guest-starring story every now and again and have them smooch just to cheese you two off, but our sensibilities are otherwise similar.

Okay, then I'd just assign John Romita Jr to draw the issue you'd have them smooch in.

Nah. Actually I couldn't. That would punish Diana and I like her too much to have her drawn by JRJR.

Wow, looking back now, JRJR's run drawing Superman was just not good. Actually it was pretty poor. I just reread his run first with Johns and then with Yang...yikes. Some of it was just plain awful. The only things worse art wise with Supes was that Scott Mcdaniel run on SUPERMAN with Steve Seagle and that one horrid issue in 2002 of ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN drawn by Carlos Megilla (sp?). It was a Joe Casey written issue I think and it had Ultraman in it.

[Francisco]

An interesting Idea,but I've never really liked the idea of "ghost A.I. JOR-EL," really. Some messages or things pre-recorded is fine,but a "living" hologram constantly interacting with Clark in the present day is mostly a relic of the Donnerverse, and honestly I could do without. To do that with the Kents too I would not like.

I think the Kents should live in Clark's memory. Whenever he is conflicted about something he would remember something they told him or an special moment with them. It can be a little bit corny but I think a good writer could make it awesome.

[Jon Clark]

I'd crib from Alan Moore's Supreme and use a variation on his Supremacy.

Superman wakes up in a void. As he tries to find out where he is and how to get "home" he starts trying to recall his life. And with each memory he recalls we see the void begin to fade as different "iconic" objects appear. He recalls a Morrrison-esque Krypton and we see a quick recap of that origin ending with the rocket and his cape manifesting. He recalls his childhood in Smallville and we again get some recaps before seeing a framed picture of Clark in his Smallville High football uniform (with Lana and the Kents). We also now can see the statues of Jor-El and Lara as well as one of Jonathan, the latter has 19??-2007 on the statue's base. He recalls his time exploring the world before returning to Metropolis for college (various mementos coming into existence). End that issue on a large shot of a newsphoto of the T-shirt and jeans (minus symbol) Superman sabving Lois from being hit by a car (sort of a homage to Action #1 but with Superman facing the car).

Next issue we see a still dazed Clark wandering around what appears to be the Fortress looking at that picture and hesitatingly remembering his public debut saving Lois. The birth of Metropolis Clark and his being hired by the Star. The battles with Glen Morgan in the T-shirt and Jeans costume. Encountering Bruce while tracking a crook to Gotham and shortly therafter the formation of the League during Darkseid's initial attack. The JLA nenory leads him to reminiscing about Diana (spread over several years from meeting to romance to the "end" of the romance). And we end issue two on a shot of Lex and the Collector/Brainiac.

Third issue opens with Superman showing the Luthor and Brainiac rooms to Jon and recounting his history with both villains. We see flashbacks of Superman discovering that Luthor was funneling Clark leads in order to undermine Glenmorgan's gang and increase Lex's own hidden criminal empire. We see the Controller's attempt to shrink Metropolis which was the debut of Clark's more superheroic costume. And we see the Controller being defeated but manageing to escape by "possessing" Milton Fine. We also get glimpses of Metal-Zero (who due to a typo in the Planet story was dubbed Metallo), the Parasite, and a few others as Clark tries to explain the concept of supervillains to Jon.

Fourth (and final) issue opens with Superman and Jon returning to the White farm where Clark and Lois reminisce about their relationship from being rivals at different papers, to friends during Superman's romance with Diana, to an engagement complicated by the arrival of Jon (either the sole survivor of Convergence and thus the son of another Lois & Clark or just another Kryptonian like Lor-Zod hd been).

[Jim Kelly]

An interesting Idea,but I've never really liked the idea of "ghost A.I. JOR-EL," really. Some messages or things pre-recorded is fine,but a "living" hologram constantly interacting with Clark in the present day is mostly a relic of the Donnerverse, and honestly I could do without. To do that with the Kents too I would not like.

The thing I would emphasize is the gap between what the simulations create and the reality. Rather than giving Superman comfort, it would serve to make his pain all the greater--because Clark would know that these aren't his parents--that Jor-El is not real and that Krypton will never come back.

I think that's what they've failed to make clear with the A.I. They make it seem like Jor-El is still intruding in Superman's life--but Jor-El is dead and Kal-El should know that. To have this ghost haunting him ought to increase Superman's pain and loneliness.

I guess for me it's important that the Last Son of Krypton never gets anything that he really wants. He's happy in his own way--but a loving wife, children--that shouldn't be for Superman. It's a lonely job being the Man of Tomorrow--and no robots or simulations are going to let Clark off the hook.

But just because the Man of Steel's life is a sad one, that doesn't mean he can't exist in a fantastic world filled with all kinds of wonders. Especially in the Fortress of Solitude--Superman's own fantasy playground.

[andersonh1]

I don't see how you can merge these two very different versions of Superman and come up with anything that makes sense. They've led very different lives, have interacted with different versions of the DC characters, and have vastly different amounts of history (5 years vs. 25 years).

And I don't see the point of trying to merge them either. You still don't have New 52 Superman back if you do that. I don't think some hybrid is going to really make any of his fans happy.

[Jim Kelly]

But it's not really five years vs 25 years is it. The timeline for Beardy is maybe ten years that he's been Superman and five years for Collar Boy. Somehow within that ten years is supposed to fit most of Superman's adventures (but really a lot of them don't matter). For the new 52, most of the five years were never filled in, right? You were just supposed to assume that a lot of adventures (some similar to those pre-Flashpoint) had happened, but they never got around to filling in all the details.

Not that I think either version is all that great or that merging them will work. DC doesn't really need to placate the people who jumped on with the new 52. Clearly the sales weren't good enough or they wouldn't be doing Rebirth.

My guess is that during the new 52 a good many readers were those who liked and read the old Superman, as well. Of those newbies who jumped on board not all them must have stayed--or else sales wouldn't have gone down. And DC is probably more concerned with setting up their books to work with the movies and TV shows.

That's why I'm a bit confused by the Rebirth books. None of them really have grabbed me. They go into a lot of detail about old continuity and they feel claustrophobic with these details. There so much exposition that it doesn't leave room for much of a story. I don't see how that appeals to people who are coming to the books from the movies and TV shows or people who have never read these characters before.

I was expecting Rebirth to start fresh so one could easily jump in, without knowing anything about the characters or the continuity.

[SuperCrab]

I'd crib from Alan Moore's Supreme and use a variation on his Supremacy.

Superman wakes up in a void. As he tries to find out where he is and how to get "home" he starts trying to recall his life. And with each memory he recalls we see the void begin to fade as different "iconic" objects appear. He recalls a Morrrison-esque Krypton and we see a quick recap of that origin ending with the rocket and his cape manifesting. He recalls his childhood in Smallville and we again get some recaps before seeing a framed picture of Clark in his Smallville High football uniform (with Lana and the Kents). We also now can see the statues of Jor-El and Lara as well as one of Jonathan, the latter has 19??-2007 on the statue's base. He recalls his time exploring the world before returning to Metropolis for college (various mementos coming into existence). End that issue on a large shot of a newsphoto of the T-shirt and jeans (minus symbol) Superman sabving Lois from being hit by a car (sort of a homage to Action #1 but with Superman facing the car).

Next issue we see a still dazed Clark wandering around what appears to be the Fortress looking at that picture and hesitatingly remembering his public debut saving Lois. The birth of Metropolis Clark and his being hired by the Star. The battles with Glen Morgan in the T-shirt and Jeans costume. Encountering Bruce while tracking a crook to Gotham and shortly therafter the formation of the League during Darkseid's initial attack. The JLA nenory leads him to reminiscing about Diana (spread over several years from meeting to romance to the "end" of the romance). And we end issue two on a shot of Lex and the Collector/Brainiac.

Third issue opens with Superman showing the Luthor and Brainiac rooms to Jon and recounting his history with both villains. We see flashbacks of Superman discovering that Luthor was funneling Clark leads in order to undermine Glenmorgan's gang and increase Lex's own hidden criminal empire. We see the Controller's attempt to shrink Metropolis which was the debut of Clark's more superheroic costume. And we see the Controller being defeated but manageing to escape by "possessing" Milton Fine. We also get glimpses of Metal-Zero (who due to a typo in the Planet story was dubbed Metallo), the Parasite, and a few others as Clark tries to explain the concept of supervillains to Jon.

Fourth (and final) issue opens with Superman and Jon returning to the White farm where Clark and Lois reminisce about their relationship from being rivals at different papers, to friends during Superman's romance with Diana, to an engagement complicated by the arrival of Jon (either the sole survivor of Convergence and thus the son of another Lois & Clark or just another Kryptonian like Lor-Zod hd been).

That's actually pretty good.

I'm more in favor of a straight forward merger where this Superman simply has both sets of memories, a composite or new52 age, and goes from there- so you don't have to wonder what counts or doesn't, he remembers everything. The dynamic of Lois and both being married and not would be fascinating to work out for a while.

However, if they were to do a "combined history" where everything is fit together like a jig-saw, yours is the best of the thread so far IMO- it hits most of the important points of the new52, especially if they focus on the social crusader aspects during the flashbacks of his showdowns with Morgan. It also keeps the Superman-Wonder Woman romance in continuity, which is important to some fans, while having him wind up with Lois, which is important to others- and gives both of those characters histories with him to play off of that make sense to the readers who know he was involved with both. And I've always liked the new52's callback to the original Clark Kent from 1938 working at the Daily Star, by starting the new52 version there before he moved on to the Daily Planet- which, in a sense, as you imply, as a side effect, also adds a dimensions to the romantic history between him and Lois, starting as rivals at rival newspapers and not in the same newsroom, it has the feel of the classic dynamic but in a way that actually expands upon it.

[Sacred Knight]

The way DC does things, even with the most well-put totgether character, there are elements where you wonder what counts or not. So I'm not too concerned about some confusion there. They're not very good storytellers quite frankly; there's always confusion.

[andersonh1]

It wouldn't be easy. In a vacuum it'd be difficult. But compared to the mess things are now? Making sense of a merger comparative to the shit sandwich they've doled out thus far would be a piece of cake. It doesn't get anymore nonsensical than things are now.

Right now it's fairly simple, actually. New 52 Superman is gone, and the Superman from the old timeline takes his place. There's nothing difficult to understand about that at all. Integrating the old Superman into this new timeline will be a little difficult, but difficulties are what makes good drama.

[andersonh1]

But it's not really five years vs 25 years is it. The timeline for Beardy is maybe ten years that he's been Superman and five years for Collar Boy. Somehow within that ten years is supposed to fit most of Superman's adventures (but really a lot of them don't matter). For the new 52, most of the five years were never filled in, right? You were just supposed to assume that a lot of adventures (some similar to those pre-Flashpoint) had happened, but they never got around to filling in all the details.

Pre-Flashpoint Superman has 10 years just on New 52 Earth, before we even start looking back at his life before he arrived. He and Lois need those 10 years for Jon to reach that age. All his adventures in the old continuity need years to play out. I seem to remember that Man of Steel skipped forward a lot, and who knows what was done to his timeline with Birthright and Secret Origin (both of which were terrible, in my opinion).