How would YOU merge the Supermen?

[SuperCrab]

I've mentioned this in other posts, but this is the best way to merge them:

According to Rebirth, New52 is just an altered timeline of Pre-Flashpoint. So both Supermen are technically the same guy. Soooo...

1. Have Superdad and his Lois go back to their original timeline, right before Flashpoint happens.
2. Superdad has to leave Jon behind otherwise he never exists. Nuperman will take care of him because it is technically his son. Jon is now considered the "time-anomaly son of Superman." A simple explanation of Jon's origin.
3. Once Superdad goes back to his time, Nuperman gains back all his memories of being Superdad. He's essentially lived two lifetimes and all stories still count.

Could also open up some interesting stories where Superman has to make Lois fall in love with him again so she can remember their son. But in the meantime, DC can have their single Superman and he can have a son at the same time.

I would buy those books. I don't like keeping Jon, but I could live with it under the conditions you laid out, especially if Jon is mostly off in his own book that I don't have to buy. The idea of Superman remembering both lifetimes and his son, but Lois not remembering being married to him or her son, and Superman having to deal with that is fascinating. Heck, that might even make the son mildly interesting- not as a superhero, but just as a human being like "My mother doesn't remember me?"- temporarily, anyway, if he's not too heavy a part of those books. And, of course, it basically restores new52 Superman (Which would be my biggest goal), memories intact, probably in his own body at his own age, just plus the extra memories of SuperDad, which I could live with.

[StrikeJP]

I would buy those books. I don't like keeping Jon, but I could live with it under the conditions you laid out, especially if Jon is mostly off in his own book that I don't have to buy. The idea of Superman remembering both lifetimes and his son, but Lois not remembering being married to him or her son, and Superman having to deal with that is fascinating. Heck, that might even make the son mildly interesting- not as a superhero, but just as a human being like "My mother doesn't remember me?"- temporarily, anyway, if he's not too heavy a part of those books. And, of course, it basically restores new52 Superman, memories intact, probably in his own body at his own age, just plus the extra memories of SuperDad, which I could live with.

Thanks! Yeah, I think it's the best compromise for Superdad/Nuperman fans. Get to keep the Nuperman origin going forward and get to keep Jon around. He can go off adventuring with Robin in Supersons.

Superman now has two lifetimes of experience and it's a good way to meld the personalities. The experience of Superdad and the headstrong confidence of Nuperman.

Lois not remembering would give Superman/Jon some drama, as you mentioned. They want their wife/mom back. But Clark will have to earn it like he did when he was Superdad.

And one of the more interesting parts of the Lois & Clark series was Superdad looking for people he remembered from Pre-Flashpoint (e.g.Hank Henshaw). This can still continue as he'll have those memories. Lets them bring back a lot of old villains. Or even supporting cast, like maybe he goes looking for this timeline's Bibbo.

[Ascended]

You know, Ive considered whether Clark should have a....awareness.....of his previous versions. Perhaps, as he ages and gains more power, he starts to break through the Bleed and hypertime and gains a knowledge of all his history via a new form of super sense.

Not a "merger" in the strictest sense, as continuities remain separate, but, as you mentioned, being aware of and remembering lives he "lived" in another time and place.

I think such a....super-sense, as it were, might help heal the divide in the fandom (Superman remembers whatever your favorite version was and like any life experience it'd influence him) and would naturally lead to a Superman who's personality is a little more....even? might be the word? Not as rambunctious as someone like Nuperman of early Golden Age Clark, because he'd have all the experiences of his older selves to mellow him out, but he wouldn't be as complacent as Superdad was towards the end of post-Crisis because he's still got some fire in him.

[SuperCrab]

Thanks! Yeah, I think it's the best compromise for Superdad/Nuperman fans. Get to keep the Nuperman origin going forward and get to keep Jon around. He can go off adventuring with Robin in Supersons.

Superman now has two lifetimes of experience and it's a good way to meld the personalities. The experience of Superdad and the headstrong confidence of Nuperman.

Lois not remembering would give Superman/Jon some drama, as you mentioned. They want their wife/mom back. But Clark will have to earn it like he did when he was Superdad.

Yup, and it moves back issues of everything from both the Post-Crisis and new52 era- because they are both the real history of this hypothetical soon to be current Superman, which he remembers fully. If digital comics continue to gain market share, they can just put those up and profit without reprinting costs.

And while I don't like Jon or the idea of a 10-year old superhero, if they mostly put him off in his own book or books that aren't essential to understanding what's going on in the regular Superman books, I can deal with that. I don't begrudge people who like him or the idea of him their books. I just don't want him taking over the main Superman books where I have to see a ton of him to get my Superman stories, or go without the Superman stories. Sort of split it up and people can buy one or the other, or both, according to their preferences. It's not like my head will explode if I read a 6-issue story arc and in one comic Clark sees Jon and says hello briefly. I mean, obviously, in any type of comics or literature, there are characters or concepts that I'm not going to be fond of. If they are a small part of it, I can overlook them. If they become half the book/story, I can't.

One example is I never liked the character of Captain Janeway on Voyager (That show had all sorts of problems, that was just one). I thought it was great that they finally had a female star ship Captain, but I would have preferred someone like Major Kira from Deep Space Nine. It was just a character thing, not a gender thing. Anyway, during the first few seasons, when it was an ensemble cast, and they had like 8 people who split screen time fairly evenly and each got 1/8th of the time, I was okay watching the show. Obviously, the Captain got a bit more screen time than the others, because she was the Captain, but it wasn't that much more, and overall we were seeing mostly non-Janeway characters. By like season 5, though, they decided that the show was primarily about Captain Janeway and one other character- so it was almost a 50-50 split and everyone else faded into the background, including the characters I actually liked. By season 6, I stopped watching the show, even though it was free to watch (Unlike comics I have to pay for) with the cable subscription my family had back then already for other reasons. I am even less likely to put up with annoying characters who get a lot of story time in something I'm *paying* for.

How much focus they put on a character I don't like (Such as Jon) matters, obviously. If I can go "Well, this is the annoying part of things I have to put up with for a few panels every six issues", I'll live. If I go "This book is basically about this character, or he evenly splits time with one or two other main characters", I'm not paying for that.

But they could still have the character exist and get plenty of "face time" in the SuperSons book or a Superboy book that are mostly unconnected. The people who like him could buy them and be happy with all the stories, the people who don't could skip them and be happy not having to deal much with him. Win-win.

My main issue with Jon as things stand right now is that I think he's being wedged into the Superman titles in such a way that his presence is too pervasive for me to enjoy the stories. I'm giving Action Comics a shot because there's supposed to be less of him to begin with, and skipping the one titled Superman because there's supposed to be more of him, but I don't know how long that's going to go that way. The second story arc for Action Comics could easily be Jon-centric and then I'd be reading neither. I'm on issue to issue with Action Comics right now. I don't subscribe, I see if I want the issue when it comes out and then decide.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions about the Superman title's first issue for people Wednesday, though. I'm hypothetically open to buying it if people tell me "Listen, the solicitations and interviews were all wrong, this is really just about Superman battling General Zod. Jon's in one panel.". But with a title like "Son of Superman", I doubt that will be the case.

Actually, believe it or not, for me, just having the new52 Superman's memories and personality as part of the current Superman might let me put up with Jon. I know that sounds ridiculous, in a way, but right now I have two main issues: 1) Not my Superman and 2) I don't like Jon. Resolve one or the other, and I am 50% less upset and might be able to handle the remaining issue. I want this to be the future adventures of the Superman I read about in new52, preferably because it actually is him returning as himself totally, but I can deal with a merger situation where the composite Superman has all his memories, some of his personality, and actually thinks of things like "One time, *I* quit the Daily Planet and started blogging with Kat because I didn't like the editorial mandates of Glen Morgan. That was a tough time for *me*". He can also think "*I* remember when Doomsday killed *me* in 1992". I don't mind him being both. I'm flexible.

[Jim Kelly]

In order for Jor-El to send Kal-El all the light years to Earth from Krypton, there must have been some kind of hyper-drive. We also know that Jor-El discovered the Phantom Zone or was intstrumental in its use. Put those two things together and I'd say the rocket ship used some kind of trans-dimensional drive to get to our solar system from the Rao system.

I imagine Kal-El going through not just the Phantom Zone but the 5th Dimension (when Mr. Mxyzptlk first became aware of his existence) and other realities.

Kal-El's super-brain protected him against all that flood of information--which could drive a person mad--but those suppressed memories are still there. And the rocket's memory banks would also have a record of those other realms. I'd also say that, in the Phantom Zone, the walls between the different realities are more porous.

[Zero Hunter]

To be totally honest I wouldn't. I have enjoyed reading about Superdad in his mini and current apperances more than I think I ever really did the Nu52 Superman. I even thought having Jon becoming the new Superboy was the dumbest thing I had ever heard until I actually read about the kid, but now I am OK with it.

I am OK with just letting the Nu52 Superman become a memory at this point.

[The Shredder]

According to Rebirth, New52 is just an altered timeline of Pre-Flashpoint. So both Supermen are technically the same guy. Soooo...

Well, this is assuming they are the same guy. right? Excluding the possibility we may get a curve ball concerning both with the whole not being who they think they are scenario Mr. Oz threw at Post-Crisis Supes in DC REBIRTH.

[Shamrock Holmes]

I think that integrating the usuable elements of Nuperman into Superdad are the way to go, as the Pre-Crisis!Superman of Earth-2 amd the KC/E22 Superman introduced the idea that Supes can be an effective 'elder statesman' hero decades ago so folding the ~5 years of publishing (2-3 at most in-universe minus the flashbacks) of Nuperman's adventures into the minimum ~15 years of Post-Crisis! Superman (which Superdad builds on, if not the preceding ~25 years of Earth-1! Superman for an in-universe 20+ years (putting Superdad at ~ mid 40s, about the same age as the Earth-2 heroes were when they started crossovers between Earth 1 & Earth 2).

[cxranger]

Please do not. They are different characters, with different personalities. Leave them as such. Merging would just create another version - we'll spend years trying to un-fix that.

You can make both sides happy with two Supermen. Do away with one or merge them will just alienate one side or the other.

[stephens2177]

Have 2 supermen

1 young,cocky,headstrong,confident.dating WW,on the JL team.also the one who finds new ways to use his powers.

Another who has a beard,married and has a kid.on the returning JSA team,and more of a father type to the DCU.

DC is already slowly moving into having multiples of the same characters,they know begrudgingly this is how you keep ALL your readers happy,not just part of them.over time there will be more IF their is mass fanbase dislike on how to represent a character.2 is better than 1 that wont make everyone happy.

Atleast until the next reboot lol

[MeloDet]

You know, as much as I don't like the idea of a married with kids Superman I'd would be surprisingly ok with a single-father Superman. I've always had a certain fondness for stories where youngish characters are suddenly left to deal with a kid they didn't know they had. Obviously that is probably the least likely direction that I could see them going in, but I would definitely be more open to that than what we've got now.

[DieHard200904]

You know, as much as I don't like the idea of a married with kids Superman I'd would be surprisingly ok with a single-father Superman. I've always had a certain fondness for stories where youngish characters are suddenly left to deal with a kid they didn't know they had. Obviously that is probably the least likely direction that I could see them going in, but I would definitely be more open to that than what we've got now.

That's one of my fanfic ideas going on right now among several. He ends up finding a version of Lor-Zod as a young single guy.

[SuperCrab]

Have 2 supermen

1 young,cocky,headstrong,confident.dating WW,on the JL team.also the one who finds new ways to use his powers.

Another who has a beard,married and has a kid.on the returning JSA team,and more of a father type to the DCU.

DC is already slowly moving into having multiples of the same characters,they know begrudgingly this is how you keep ALL your readers happy,not just part of them.over time there will be more IF their is mass fanbase dislike on how to represent a character.2 is better than 1 that wont make everyone happy.

Well said. I basically agree with that. Marvel sales haven't really suffered for having several Spidermen and such, have they? I don't follow Marvel that closely, but I know they have at least Peter Parker and Miles Morales as Spidermen, don't they? And it seems to keep everyone happy- everybody gets the book they want with the character they want, and then some of them decide to buy all the different variations on the character just because versioning isn't as important to them or they like both guys. It's a formula that seems to work.

I also think comic book buyers are sophisticated enough to "get it" that there are two Supermen in two different universes, or that there are two Clark Kents in the same universe who are different people with different roles. We've moved from comics being read mostly by kids to mostly being read by adult comic book geeks. The adult comic book geeks know this stuff about alternate universes and different iterations of characters better than the writers and editors themselves in some cases. It's not a problem.

Like you said, I do think you make an effort to differentiate- like one Superman has a beard, different costumes, etc.. I mean, new52 Superman already has that sort of built-in with the high collar and the body armor (Which I think was gone by the end, but they could bring it back) and the red boots and whatever versus SuperDad's more traditional costume plus blue boots. They could accent those differences even more if they wanted to- even all the way to Superman Red and Superman Blue style (Without the body modifications- just the suits). They could also feel freer to accent the personality differences more heavily, and even more clearly show SuperDad's wrinkles or have him go gray, and revise the younger Superman's age to like 25 or whatever (Not saying that part would be what I want, I'm just saying they could, if they were worried about the characters being too much alike). They could also do story tone differences, make SuperDad more PG and new52 more R-rated, etc.. Different art styles in the books. So many different ways you can do this.

If they really had to, they could even make one of these guys not Superman, but just have him fly around calling himself Kal-El with some green incorporated into the suit in honor of his biological parents, or put them in different cities or whatever. There are a thousand ways that they could differentiate.

[suemorphplus209]

Well said. I basically agree with that. Marvel sales haven't really suffered for having several Spidermen and such, have they? I don't follow Marvel that closely, but I know they have at least Peter Parker and Miles Morales as Spidermen, don't they? And it seems to keep everyone happy- everybody gets the book they want with the character they want, and then some of them decide to buy all the different variations on the character just because versioning isn't as important to them or they like both guys. It's a formula that seems to work.

I also think comic book buyers are sophisticated enough to "get it" that there are two Supermen in two different universes, or that there are two Clark Kents in the same universe who are different people with different roles. We've moved from comics being read mostly by kids to mostly being read by adult comic book geeks. The adult comic book geeks know this stuff about alternate universes and different iterations of characters better than the writers and editors themselves in some cases. It's not a problem.

Like you said, I do think you make an effort to differentiate- like one Superman has a beard, different costumes, etc.. I mean, new52 Superman already has that sort of built with the high collar and the body armor (Which I think was gone by the end, but they could bring it back) and the red boots and whatever versus SuperDad's more traditional costume plus blue boots. They could accent those differences even more if they wanted to- even all the way to Superman Red and Superman Blue style (Without the body modifications- just the suits). They could also feel freer to accent the personality differences more heavily, and even more clearly show SuperDad's wrinkles or have him go gray, and revise the younger Superman's age to like 25 or whatever (Not saying that part would be what I want, I'm just saying they could, if they were worried about the characters being too much alike). They could also do story tone differences, make SuperDad more PG and new52 more R-rated, etc.. Different art styles in the books. So many different ways you can do this.

If they really had to, they could even make one of these guys not Superman, but just have him fly around calling himself Kal-El with some green incorporated into the suit in honor of his biological parents, or put them in different cities or whatever. There are a thousand ways that they could differentiate.

Marvel has shown that you can run multiple universes for a while, and do just fine, just don't do a whole big equivalent of the Ultimate Universe, neccessarily, but what I could see happen is that you make N52 Superman non-canon and come up with essentially Elseworlds stories that are about him. I mean some Elseworlds Continuities have multiple story arcs to them, IIRC. I don't know I would ever like Superman as an R-rated character though. I would go with PG-13 for whatever version.

[suemorphplus209]

Have 2 supermen

1 young,cocky,headstrong,confident.dating WW,on the JL team.also the one who finds new ways to use his powers.

Another who has a beard,married and has a kid.on the returning JSA team,and more of a father type to the DCU.

DC is already slowly moving into having multiples of the same characters,they know begrudgingly this is how you keep ALL your readers happy,not just part of them.over time there will be more IF their is mass fanbase dislike on how to represent a character.2 is better than 1 that wont make everyone happy.

Atleast until the next reboot lol

Sometimes multiple of the same can be alright. I mean they have how many Flashes right now? I wouldn't mind going for both if there were two options.